Confused by Mix Recall

[Billy86]

I saved my original mix as Mix 1, with all tracks. As a test, I deleted a single track with a Kontakt instrument, and I saved that as Mix 2. 

Now, the track I deleted for my test is not showing up in Mix 1, in which I saved all the tracks in my original, including the track I deleted as my test. So, the "test delete" track isn't in either track. Shouldn't it be in Mix 1? What am I missing? Thanks. 

[scook]

From http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Mixing.49.html#1687561

Quote

Note 2: Mix Recall uses internal track IDs to map mix parameters. Mix Scenes only apply to “same” tracks and buses in the project. That is, to tracks and buses that existed when you last saved the Mix Scene.

If you delete tracks or create new tracks, then load an old Mix Scene, the Mix Scene will not automatically map the affected tracks. Any new tracks or buses are ignored. In this case you must resave the Mix Scene or create a new Mix Scene in order to include the new tracks/buses.

 

[Billy86]

4 hours ago, scook said:

From http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Mixing.49.html#1687561

 

Thanks @scook. I read through that section and had trouble understanding the info. It’s still elusive to me. 
 

I’m kind of down a rabbit hole on a mix and want to get rid of a number of tracks but keep other tracks and try some new tracks with the tracks I keep. But I would like it to be non-destructive so that I can return to where I started. Maybe the mix scenes aren’t the way to go? I guess I could freeze, archive and hide tracks and still have them available if I want to return to one or more of the tracks later.

[Keni]

59 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

Thanks @scook. I read through that section and had trouble understanding the info. It’s still elusive to me. 
 

I’m kind of down a rabbit hole on a mix and want to get rid of a number of tracks but keep other tracks and try some new tracks with the tracks I keep. But I would like it to be non-destructive so that I can return to where I started. Maybe the mix scenes aren’t the way to go? I guess I could freeze, archive and hide tracks and still have them available if I want to return to one or more of the tracks later.

I don’t know your workflow, but maybe the use of freeze/archive/folders/hide in some combinations? Freeze frees up resources but leaves playable so some resources still used. Archive removes all but track is silent. Folders to group ideas and hide to get not-currently-being-used tracks out of sight?

[reginaldStjohn]

Or do a "save as" to keep what you want then edit away. Mix Recall does not preserve tracks and data. Just the state of mixes as mentioned in the documentation.

[John Vere]

Yes mix recall has its place for trying out different options for mixing a final version of a finished project but it needs the tracks to keep same numbers etc. You can swap out effects and VST instruments but it will freak out if you delete a track. 
There are many options for saving alternative versions of projects. “Save as “with a change to the name is easiest and will share the audio folder if you “save as “in to the same project folder.  

[sjoens]

Can Mix Recall "undo" destructive editing? I wouldn't expect it to recall something that's been physically removed from the project.

[Billy86]

18 hours ago, John Vere said:

Yes mix recall has its place for trying out different options for mixing a final version of a finished project but it needs the tracks to keep same numbers etc. You can swap out effects and VST instruments but it will freak out if you delete a track. 
There are many options for saving alternative versions of projects. “Save as “with a change to the name is easiest and will share the audio folder if you “save as “in to the same project folder.  

Good to know the “save as” strategy. Was concerned about consuming storage space with multiple versions. 

[Billy86]

6 hours ago, sjoens said:

Can Mix Recall "undo" destructive editing? I wouldn't expect it to recall something that's been physically removed from the project.

I wasn’t aware mix recall would physically remove anything. In my misguided way of thinking about mix recall, I imagined it working along the lines of workspaces, where Mixes 1, 2, 3 etc would each be there own discrete entity within a single project. I see my mental model wasn’t correct. 

[Billy86]

3 minutes ago, pwalpwal said:

sounds like the mix recall is based on current tracks in the project?

Apparently, yes. 

[Grem]

Mix Recall is just what it says, it recalls mix parameters of tracks in a mix. And it has a surprising amount of control over the parameters you want to save in a mix. 

Good way to look at it is: it's not an undo function. So if you delete a track, move a track, record a track, ect, it will not recall that info. But if you move a fader, pan knob, replace an fx, adjust an fx parameter, it will recall all of that.

Very powerful feature. 

[sjoens]

5 hours ago, Billy86 said:

I wasn’t aware mix recall would physically remove anything.

To be fair it didn't, you did.

On 7/18/2022 at 2:56 PM, Billy86 said:

As a test, I deleted a single track with a Kontakt instrument, and I saved that as Mix 2. 

Shouldn't it be in Mix 1? What am I missing?

The track you deleted. With it missing from the mix, MixRecall has nothing to recall.

Rather than deleting a track, try selecting the tracks you want for each mix. Muting or archiving a track might also work.

SOS has some good tips. "Mix Recall assumes that you’re done with the editing, and that you’re now dealing with levels, panning, effects and the like."

[Noel Borthwick]

On 7/18/2022 at 6:56 PM, Billy86 said:

I saved my original mix as Mix 1, with all tracks. As a test, I deleted a single track with a Kontakt instrument, and I saved that as Mix 2. 

Now, the track I deleted for my test is not showing up in Mix 1, in which I saved all the tracks in my original, including the track I deleted as my test. So, the "test delete" track isn't in either track. Shouldn't it be in Mix 1? What am I missing? Thanks. 

Mix recall affects MIX settings, automation and fx, as documented here. Think of it as recalling mixer snapshots for your project including effects and automation data.
It works by applying those settings to the current track data your project, which is the actual tracks and clips.
If you remove tracks or clips, mix recall will not bring the deleted tracks and clips back.
Also any saved mix recall settings that reference tracks or buses that do not exist in the project will be ignored.

Why do you need to delete tracks from the project? Just mute them and use mix recall to save a snapshot of the mute state.
 

[Billy86]

Got it, everyone, thanks. 

[John Vere]

It wasn't a big stretch for me to sort it out when first introduced years ago.  I had been recalling Mixes on my Yamaha 01V since 1996. 

I most certainly wouldn't have expected it to know if I had unplugged or added a new input.  I used to store Masking tape Channel naming strips of bands and 8 track recording projects stuck to the bottom and sides. Just recall the mix and stick the matching tape strip on the front. Most mixers now have a little name window per channel. 

So saving a snapshot of a mix has been around along time. Digital mixing desks all do this. That's why the big shows can travel the world and ask for a certain FOH and monitor desk and just show up,  load their show from a USB stick and go. I think it's great Cakewalk adapted this same workflow. I'm not sure how other many DAW's do? 

One of the most brilliant uses of mix recall is for live multitrack recordings. Say you have recorded a whole night and have 30 CWP project files of audio tracks. They will all probably be mixed about the same. Get song #1 dialed in and save the mix recall. Now from the browser, drag that mix recall from song #1's mix recall folder and drop it on the other projects. Bingo and Cool.  

Edited July 20, 2022 by John Vere

[Noel Borthwick]

The biggest use of mix recall is to avoid the need to save different version of a project just to compare mixes. Its much quicker to switch mix recall presets than load the entire project file.
Mix recall also will save and restore plugin settings and all your automation envelopes, something that digital mixing consoles cannot do.

[John Vere]

Was just reading all the documents regarding mix recall. I was unaware that you can totally customize what it saves. Example in my case when working with multi song live recordings each song will have different track automation. So you can tell mix recall to not load that.
 

I think this calls for deep research and a tutorial topic. Interesting what Noel said later in this thread I started exactly 2 years ago about possibly updating it. 

 

[Michael Vogel]

I remember when Mix Recall was first added to Sonar. Then and now I still think it is one of the best additions to the palette of tools on offer within Cakewalk. 

[John Vere]

Did you know that Pro Tools doesn't have Mix Recall! I Googled a bunch of different DAW's and ask about Mix Recall.  

[Noel Borthwick]

Cakewalk was the first DAW to add this in 2016. Cubase added it somewhat later but its not quite as powerful as our implementation.