Possible to see Arranger track in PRV?

[Billy86]

Currently, I use the arranger track in track view to navigate and keep track of where I am — intro, verse 1, verse 2, chorus, etc. Super  helpful. Is there a way to make that strip visible in PRV? If I insert markers in track view they also appear in PRV. Very helpful to the way I work, but an extra step to accomplish such organizational housework. 

[John Vere]

Yes it’s easy. This will apply to using one screen not a second monitor. 
From track view with Arranger showing open the multi dock and drag the top edge either down a little or up. 

[Colin Nicholls]

That won't keep them in sync, though, @John Vere

[musekamp]

Yeah, I definitely wish you could display the arranger tracks in the PRV. I also use it to keep track of things. Often I'll have one arranger track with sections, and another with chord changes.

As a workaround, I use "Create Markers from Sections". To swap one for the other requires going into Marker view and clearing them all out first. Ideally it would be nice to have a dedicated chord track for this.

[John Vere]

It’s not in sync but myself I can clearly see where the now time is in relationship to the song. I actually gave up on the Arranger finding it very buggy. I still use good old fashioned markers.
 

I would never re arrange a song anyhow. I’m not that indecisive. But it does have a fan club for those who need it. It was a very cool feature that was added, just not something I found useful. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by John Vere

[msmcleod]

8 hours ago, John Vere said:

It’s not in sync but myself I can clearly see where the now time is in relationship to the song. I actually gave up on the Arranger finding it very buggy. I still use good old fashioned markers.
 

I would never re arrange a song anyhow. I’m not that indecisive. But it does have a fan club for those who need it. It was a very cool feature that was added, just not something I found useful. 

We're not aware of any outstanding Arranger bugs - can you elaborate?

[John Vere]

3 hours ago, msmcleod said:

We're not aware of any outstanding Arranger bugs - can you elaborate?

Might not be a bug but the way it’s supposed to work. I always made the arranger sections right away after I laid down the scratch vocals and guitar tracks. 

As I said I’ve never used it for it’s intended purpose I’ve only used it for nice colourful markers instead of the original very small ones.
possibly cause might be using single track ripple editing? I’m not sure but often by the time I’m finished with a song the sections  are a mess. It seems they are tied to the material in the track and not the timeline. 
In other words if you move a part in a track somewhere else the arranger gets mixed up. 
And I often change the tempo of projects?  I do all sorts of stuff but I don’t use the arranger to move things around so maybe it doesn’t like that  

Im certainly not bashing it it’s a very cool feature and I’m sure it would work flawlessly if I only applied it to a finished song but i need it at the beginning of the process not the end 
 

Edited May 20, 2022 by John Vere

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

Might not be a bug but the way it’s supposed to work. I always made the arranger sections right away after I laid down the scratch vocals and guitar tracks. 

As I said I’ve never used it for it’s intended purpose I’ve only used it for nice colourful markers instead of the original very small ones.
possibly cause might be using single track ripple editing? I’m not sure but often by the time I’m finished with a song the sections  are a mess. It seems they are tied to the material in the track and not the timeline. 
In other words if you move a part in a track somewhere else the arranger gets mixed up. 
And I often change the tempo of projects?  I do all sorts of stuff but I don’t use the arranger to move things around so maybe it doesn’t like that  

Im certainly not bashing it it’s a very cool feature and I’m sure it would work flawlessly if I only applied it to a finished song but i need it at the beginning of the process not the end 
 

Arranger sections are definitely not tied to any of the material - they're either tied to a specific MBT time by default, or specific sample time if the arranger track is set to absolute time.

There's really no such thing as single track ripple editing... there's either Ripple Edit All or Ripple Edit Selection, so I'm assuming you're using Ripple Edit Selection for tracks. Ripple Edit Selection should have no effect on arranger sections - only Ripple Edit All all does.

Moving an arranger section will move the events under it, but not the other way around... unless you've got Ripple Edit all on.  From what you're saying though, maybe this isn't always the case.

If you do see a case of arranger sections moving unexpectedly, please let me know the steps to reproduce, or alternatively post a video of it happening.

[John Vere]

@msmcleod   Yes I did mean to say Ripple edit selection, I was using my phone and early morning coffee so no time to check what the heck it was called. 

I don't think I actually noticed at what point the sections get messed up. And we are talking possibly a couple of random projects.  The song still plays fine. Noticably there are spaces between where there wasn't before as well as they just don't line up correctly.  Only time I ever have used global Ripple is to move an entire project forward or backwards which of course the Arranger will follow too.   But of course that might not be it. I'll see if I can find a project where it went haywire.

It's always user error and this will probably be the same with this issue. I have often given up on new features only to fall in love with them later when the light bulb goes on after reading the instructions.

By the way, thanks for the tip on using the Tasks in  Export to set Time range and save it. I was doing it wrong. Once again a great feature that is only usefull if you take the time to learn how it works. 

[Lord Tim]

Be a little careful with how the Selection is set up too:

Between that and Ripple Edit, you can get tripped up SUPER fast and make a huge mess of your project (I know this from experience ?). I tend to have Select Events with Sections turned off most of the time, personally.

Where arranger sections are really valuable is songwriting, I'll often come up with riffs or parts of a song and spread them over the timeline when I'm writing. I'll assign each thing its own Arranger section and then when I think I've got enough to make a song, I'll start assembling it in the Arranger Inspector. Getting from random parts to finished song is crazy fast doing it that way. 9 times out of 10 I'll go back and play everything again from scratch anyway once I'm satisfied, but getting that initial sketch this way is really productive.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Lord Tim

[Billy86]

So, to get back on track… the answer is no?

[John Vere]

Well for me the answer is yes . It's not in sync but I can most certainly see the timeline and the arranger lane if it was there, and the tempo map ect. It really depends on the zoom level of each view. If you managed to set the zoom the same they would be pretty close to in sync. 

[Xoo]

What about using inline PRV?

[Billy86]

21 hours ago, Kevin Perry said:

What about using inline PRV?

“Inline PRV”?

[Lord Tim]

This guy:

[scook]

Inline PRV

[Billy86]

9 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

This guy:

Oh! Thanks for the suggestion. I've never used that view before, but it won't work for what I'm trying to do: navigate around song sections in the PRV using the navigator function. My work around is to place markers in the track timeline (I use navigator tab/sections too)  because they DO show up in the PRV, unlike the color-coded navigation tabs in the navigator. It does the job, but adds extra workflow housework.  I need more resolution that what the inline view seems to have.

[msmcleod]

You can also use the Arranger Inspector for navigation, which is my preferred method.

Clicking on a section within the Arranger Inspector will set the now time to the beginning of that section, so both the tracks view and PRV will scroll to it.

[John Vere]

23 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

You can also use the Arranger Inspector for navigation, which is my preferred method.

Clicking on a section within the Arranger Inspector will set the now time to the beginning of that section, so both the tracks view and PRV will scroll to it.

This is exactly what I was getting at. Not only for the PVR but when I work in Melodyne editor. I like to place the now time just so to listen to the section I’m working on. 

Once I totally understood the Skylight interface and all the options and shortcut keys I found I could work real fast and smoothly even with one monitor. It’s actually very well designed for flexibility and customized workspaces. 
And I find that I now use the Alt/Mouse scroll to zoom in and out a lot. 

[Steve_Karl]

It seems to me that just dropping Markers like V1 B1 CH1 V2 B2 CH2 would solve the whole problem and the markers would be in sync in PRV.