craigb Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 9 hours ago, Wibbles said: That's what happens when you go round discarding ewes willy-nilly. I believe that should be "go around" Nigel. HTH! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 First: Paul Anka's #1 hit "Having My Baby" and Debby Boone's #1 hit "You Light Up My Life" each also had but one writer and one producer. (The half a dozen each of writer and producer thing is because that's how behind-the-scenes creative people make money these days. It used to be that the person who did the arranging or, the Wrecking Crew player who came up with the hook that sold your single got paid for the session and that was it) The corporations that churn out disposable pop, believe it or not, exist entirely to maximize shareholder value. How does a corporation do this? Create a product with a guaranteed market, make it as easy as possible to create more of that product, ensure that you will maintain that market. Taking risks is stupid when you can just stamp out the same thing and rake in the cash. If some smaller concern comes up with something that threatens to disrupt your hold on the market, just absorb it into your own product line. As much as possible, control or conspire with the distribution channels to ensure that your product is featured and others ignored. This is a great discussion. I'm a member of a Facebook group called "Do You Remember the '70's" and my only reason for being there is for times when I'm in a mischievous mood. There's always someone posting a trollable question or statement like "What's your favorite song from the 1970's?" To which I answer something like "She's Lost Control" by Joy Division or "Bela Lugosi's Dead" by Bauhaus. Neither of which I actually heard until the early 80's, but still, it's fun to poke those who remember the '70's through a haze of cheap weed and Annie Green Springs. As relates to earlier comments about people using computers to generate music, well, Brian Eno's been into music generated by systems for a long, long time, and gotten some high praise for the quality of what he's put out. Point I'm making is that the fact that a piece of music is created by someone cutting and pasting or using a chord generator or arepeggiator or whatever doesn't matter. They're all just tools for people to use or misuse as people will. What can make it matter is when we want to maintain a fantasy image of how music is made. We like the idea of Black Sabbath getting heroically wasted and generating dirtbag masterpieces, or Frank Sinatra strolling into a New York studio to a patiently waiting orchestra and loosening his tie, or Oasis throwing fire extinguishers around in a fit of sibling rivalry and frustration, or Prince being up all night in the mysterious Paisley Park with his tape operator standing by to capture ideas, or for something later, Martin Garrix sitting in his bedroom with nothing but a laptop and working his way to international success. We want our music makers to be living lives we can relate to or wish we could have. Speaking of Mr. Garrix, there's a documentary on EDM on Netflix called What We Started which I highly recommend for anyone interested in that genre or just interested in the music business these days. Among other things, it features part of his rise to fame and success, and he's a nice kid who just loves the music and wanted to make some. He watched Tiesto close the Olympic ceremonies and decided that he wanted to do that. Just like I watched The Beatles on Ed Sullivan and made a similar decision. As I'm fond of asking people over 40 who pi55 and moan about how terrible music is these days, well, how much time and effort, vs. when you were in your teens and twenties do you put into finding new music that you'll like? My guess is that they're basing their opinions on sitting on their a55es watching the Grammies or some other awards show, or some event or other on national television and comparing what's being presented to them to what they used to hear when they spent hours a day listening to the radio, talking with hip friends, reading music magazines, going out to shows, etc. Music just stopped being cool to them at some point, adult life and other interests displaced their concern for music. In order to find music of the quality we remember from our youth, it's necessary to dig just as hard to find it as we did in our youth. I don't have the same energy I did back then. Fortunately, there's so much great music out there that when I go looking for something I might like it's like trying to drink from a firehose. Storefront Church, Big Thief, The Black Angels, David Tipper, Delicate Steve, Meilyr Jones, Chris Zippel have all gotten my Bandcamp dollars. (BTW @pwalpwal, based on your tastes, if you haven't already, check out MUGSTAR, from Birmingham. On Bandcamp. And BTW, I LOVE Gang of Four, so I'm envious of you probably having seen them live BITD) The charts tell the story: Led Zeppelin had one single make it to the top 40. The Pixies, zero. If you listen to only the top 40, you will miss whatever is out there that's of similar quality. You can't compare what was mostly underground music of your youth to today's corporate-pushed music. And I so agree with what @Shane_B. says about it being impossible to compare "quality" between what are essentially different genres of music. Wanna compare The Beatles to The Benny Goodman Orchestra? Benny Goodman had a guy whose job it was to write out every single musician's part for every song they played, then those musicians had to read the parts. None of The Beatles could read or write a note. They just collected chords and strung them together. If the chords sounded cool, then it could turn into a song. Oh, and, ahem, Benny's Orchestra was proudly created to play dance music. There was no higher aspiration in those days than for a band to get people on the floor and moving. If you had told them that in 25 years there would be million-selling popular music bands whose audiences would come to basketball arenas and sit down to watch them perform they would have thought that was lame beyond belief. Another thing: people over 40 are not supposed to like the pop music of the day. Parents are supposed to look down upon whatever music their kids like, it makes it more fun for the kids, to have their own special entertainment that the straight adult world doesn't understand. Things become less cool when old people get them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibbles Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 7 hours ago, craigb said: I believe that should be "go around" Nigel. HTH! ? Not where I be from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 3 hours ago, pwalpwal said: so much great music that you have to find yourself because no marketing (either budget or mainstream not interested because doesn't fit their algorithm) Heh, just like it's been since I can remember, with the big difference being that now you CAN find things yourself. A friend once called me "one of those annoying glass half-full people." Guilty as charged. A Place To Bury Strangers, eh? Blew The Black Angels off the stage, eh? They seem like my kind of toublemakers.? Not surprised you already dug MUGSTAR. Ever hear their version of "Tam Lin?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Smith Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 21 hours ago, Bapu said: Not to be pedantic, but.... (ok, I am being pedantic) The phrase you both were looking for in the context of your writing/musings was "and who couldn't care less" I care but I only care about what I care about. I just got a message from a younger friend and he had some beats for me to listen to. I encouraged him in it even though it isn't my thing. I might even help him to pump those beats up some. One of the things I really do care about is his generation. I care that there are still pioneers out there experimenting with a set of musical tools. The younger generation needs something productive to do and making beats is productive and can be rewarding. I just played with a group of 20 somethings and you know what ? It jelled. If my ears go maybe I can at least pass a baton. It isn't them and us. I see it more as me looking at me then or something similar and them looking at future possibilities. Them and us discussions probably aren't very productive. There is no age where a musician ceases to be one. They have more tools than I had which I think puts the cart ahead of the horse many times ( yeah that's an old man thing to say). The music is always old for me. Putting the tech ahead of creativity is probably the biggest hurdle for this generation IMO. Probably a bigger question I constantly ask myself after hearing some of the stuff I hear is, when does music cease to be music? There seems to be a very WIDE swing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, pwalpwal said: live they're awesome Oh that is some ferocity. I love their setup. You kinda know they're gonna be great before they play a note. Roached-out modded Jazzmaster indicates Sonic Youth/My Bloody Valentine influence, chanted monotone vox drug reference lyrics (album title Pinned? Subtle?) and pile-driving floor tom riding lady drummer, Velvets. Oh, drummer is not only great musician, but also sweetie pie. And they're pedal builders! I love how this ferocious band are so "aw shucks" and don't cop attitudes. Something I noticed when I was doing amp repair from 2005-2020, the dudes who came in who were covered with tattoos and piercings and brought me these 250W pant-flapping bass amps were also invariably the sweetest, soft-spoken people. It was obvious that whatever angst and aggression they were harboring was being successfully expressed onstage. And kids are so darn nice these days! @Tim Smith, I don't know how old you are, but back when I was in my 20's and playing in bands, the idea of jamming with someone 10 years older than us was like the idea of jamming with a hippie corpse. And we all had to cop this "fsck it" attitude. I did push back on that somewhat. Well, not only do they not make kids like they used to, they don't make old farts like they used to either. We make more of an effort to stay cool, and I think sometimes we're respected as the people who pioneered the music they're influenced by. When I tell someone half my age that I had a Lush/MBV-influenced shoegaze band in the early 90's, they think that's way cool. Yeah, dig dig dig. Thanks. P.S. If you want to check out a band with a similar configuration, but the lady drummer sings lead and sounds like Sandy Denny, try Heron Oblivion. The bass player was a repair client of mine. Edited March 11, 2022 by Starship Krupa added Heron Oblivion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibbles Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 This is much more my sort of thing - a couple of middle-aged baldies with a load of 303s: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 15 minutes ago, Wibbles said: a couple of middle-aged baldies with a load of 303s Very nice. I would love to do a gig like that. As yet, I don't have the live electronica chops to do it. I think Underworld and Fat Boy Slim pioneered Middle-aged Baldycore. They paved the way for the rest of us. Middle-aged baldies are able to understand how heartbreaking the lyrics to Born Slippy NUXX actually are: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) As part of my guitar rotation . I have and practice on a Jaguar almost every day at home . Having said that , To me It sure looks like the guitar he is using in the video is beat to hell a modified Fender Jaguar w lipstick pick ups .... It is easy to spot the difference between a Jag and a Jazzmaster because The Jazzmaster does not have all the extra switches on the lower horn of the guitars body . Also The Jaguar has a chrome plate on the upper horn that houses the controls that offers a separate setting for the neck pick up that can be recalled by flipping the switch while leaving the other settings on the lower switches as they were to be recalled . The Traditional Fender Jazzmaster does have a separate control to dial in the neck pick up and set it autonomously from the 3 pick up switch , the thing is the switch on the Jazzmaster is built into the pick guard while the switch on the a traditional Jaguar is the chrome one separate from the pick guard as clearly seen in his video .The few times I saw guitar closeups in the video it appears he may have kept the switch plate cover and not the switches on the lower bout . As far as the neck pick up goes it is hard to tell if it is MIA or a lowered neck pick up .... Since the Jaguar is a short scale neck and the Jazzmaster is a long scale neck it is doubtful any one could swap necks and do a conversion easily ..for that to happen one would have to re drill and relocate the bridge Kenny Edited March 11, 2022 by kennywtelejazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, pwalpwal said: he rebuilds them between shows so probably a hotch-potch of bits haha I reedited my post to make it clearer . I don't doubt for a moment he makes guitars out of a hotch-potch of bits . I'm sure he owns dozens of guitars. I own a few dozen guitars myself and then some To be honest with you I absolutely don't care one way or another about what type of guitar any guitar player plays .... Myself included ..if you can play you can play ? When and if you re read my edited post you will see that I happened to mention few facts that go beyond easy to tell the difference .... ex, A Jag is a short scale guitar and The Jazzmaster is a long scale guitar . The necks are not interchangeable unless you feel like re drilling and relocating the whole bridge assembly . Also the electronics of these two guitars are totally different ...that could that be done easily , sure , but who would want to ... 42 minutes ago, kennywtelejazz said: As part of my guitar rotation . I have and practice on a Jaguar almost every day at home . Having said that , To me It sure looks like the guitar he is using in the video is beat to hell a modified Fender Jaguar w lipstick pick ups .... It is easy to spot the difference between a Jag and a Jazzmaster because The Jazzmaster does not have all the extra switches on the lower horn of the guitars body . Also The Jaguar has a chrome plate on the upper horn that houses the controls that offers a separate setting for the neck pick up that can be recalled by flipping the switch while leaving the other settings on the lower switches as they were to be recalled . The Traditional Fender Jazzmaster does have a separate control to dial in the neck pick up and set it autonomously from the 3 pick up switch , the thing is the switch on the Jazzmaster is built into the pick guard while the switch on the a traditional Jaguar is the chrome one separate from the pick guard as clearly seen in his video .The few times I saw guitar closeups in the video it appears he may have kept the switch plate cover and not the switches on the lower bout . As far as the neck pick up goes it is hard to tell if it is MIA or a lowered neck pick up .... Since the Jaguar is a short scale neck and the Jazzmaster is a long scale neck it is doubtful any one could swap necks and do a conversion easily ..for that to happen one would have to re drill and relocate the bridge Kenny Kenny Edited March 11, 2022 by kennywtelejazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, pwalpwal said: i'm no guitar player haha, just a listener, but he regularly smashes them up live but then keeps and rebuilds those destroyed and here's another clip on his pedal building Its all good ..all I can tell for sure is he seems to like the combination of the lip stick pick ups combined with the Jaguar electronics . It took getting a Jag for me to realize how versatile that switching arrangement really is ..Now some folks don't like it and prefer what Johnny Marr has . I love it the way it is with the strangle switch and I'm seriously considering incorporating that set up in one of my Strats or Tele's in the future . As far as this guitar player goes ..I know he ain't smashing pre CBS fenders from the early 60 's even though some of guitars are relic'd to look from that general era. But hey it must be nice to be out there gigging while doing shows , smashing guitars and building pedals too .... I'm sure any one of his guitars is probably a combination of a few different ones . Plus when you factor in cheap paint jobs and head stock decals it may take a true Sherlock Homes to get to the bottom of it and figure out exactly what lineage his guitars may be .. Either way I will say this about him in my book he ain't no modern day Jimmy Hendrix , But a Truer Bad AZZed Human Version of El Kabong I have yet to see and hear . Kenny Edited March 11, 2022 by kennywtelejazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibbles Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 8 hours ago, Starship Krupa said: I would love to do a gig like that. As yet, I don't have the live electronica chops to do it. I think the bigger problem is where do you get hold of a plie of 303s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibbles Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 8 hours ago, Starship Krupa said: I think Underworld and Fat Boy Slim pioneered Middle-aged Baldycore. They paved the way for the rest of us. I would add Orbital, The Orb, and The Chemical Brothers to that list. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, kennywtelejazz said: the guitar he is using in the video is beat to hell a modified Fender Jaguar w lipstick pick ups .... Ah jeez, it IS a Jag....and looking again, Rick from Underworld has all of his hair. I think I'm losing it. Guys, am I losing it? ? Well-spotted, Kenny, as I would expect from someone with your handle. Let's put 'er under the guitar geek microscope. Let's set this record really straight, because looking closer, this is actually a very interesting guitar in the world of vintage Fenders. Put a big "as you know" in front of what I'm typing below. I'm not a vintage guitar dude myself, but I think they're cool, especially the weirder Fenders. I have in my collection a silver sparkle mother-of-bass-boat Squier Jagmaster from when they were making them with full-scale necks. I used to have a 70's Musicmaster and the scale just never feel right. I was trying to emulate Adrian Belew, but his "Mustangs" were customs with Strat scale necks and Kahler whammies. Go figure. About our specimen. First, "pickup" not plural. Closer paused video inspection suggests he's got it in the 'Halen kustom konfig: bridge pickup is from another guitar wired directly to vol pot via mismatched knob (from a Fender amp, pre-CBS we hope). Neck pickup and all other electronics, pickup selector, thumbwheel tone pots, etc. have been yanked, leaving the chrome plates as you pointed out with empty holes in them and an empty cavity at the base of the neck. Interestingly, there seems to be a second 1/4" jack on the lower rear control plate, so maybe that missing neck pickup had its own output before it was removed, for, uh, stereo. The direct-wired lipsticker would account for the full, chunky tone he's getting. ? The neck and body are what make it very interesting, rare even, if original. The neck's dot inlays with binding suggest 1965-66, and that particular configuration was only around for about a year before Fender switched to block inlays. It's a transitional guitar. The neck and headstock look to be in fairly okay shape. As for the body, danged if it doesn't look like Olympic White over a sunburst. Maybe someone was a Beach Boys fan, Carl's Jag and Al's matching Strat being Olympic White. Unless someone attacked it with a white spray can at some point in its history, a factory spray-over (often done when someone ordered a custom color, as any white finish would have been in 1966) raises the level of collectability. This "roached-out" axe could actually be a '66 factory custom worth some decent change today, even in its beat-to-hell state. Yikes! (You can order a brand new guitar from the Fender Custom Shop that would look very similar to this one (minus the deletion of the electronics, although they'd probably do that for you, too). People pay more to have Fender first make it a sunburst (nitro!)and then spray over the sunburst with white paint (more nitro!) and then attack it with abrasives and bits of metal to make it look like a road-worn veteran that someone else ordered custom in 1966. I have held such instruments in my hands at the NAMM Show and they are uncanny. In more ways than one.) Here's a shot where you can see "Jag" on the headstock, the amp knob, and the sunburst finish showing through on the lower left bout: Edited March 11, 2022 by Starship Krupa could be, not is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridget Murphy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 On 3/3/2022 at 9:30 PM, Tim Smith said: I guess we all had different experiences back in the day. In reading some of your experiences, I see some similarity to the way I see the younger generation and their music. To be fair, there are very talented people in every generation, and like you I see many good musicians buried in anonymity in both theirs and older generations. We have session musicians here who played in bands and are really good at their craft ,Kenny and Batsbrew to name just a few. There are others who come here even though they don't use Cakewalk much. We once had more of those people but they have moved on or they don't come by as much. I wasn't raised in any area where there was any kind of a serious music scene happening. I was in the rural south east US, and you had to invent something there or it wasn't happening. I'm glad I wasn't anywhere near some of it TBH. We still had the music playing from those other places. I came from early music education and played with a bunch of instruments. Not necessarily wonderful at any of them. My mother had me in a Baptist church early on and I think it was a good thing. The music was in contrast to anything else. I am still on violin as torture for my character building. I even hired a skinny German teacher who likes pain and suffering, and who could really care less about humans. I caught the Irish music bug but had a teacher beat the interest right out of me. I also met a person who had a siren voice that attracted people. You think I'm kidding. I think there was a spell on her which might have worn off. The music I was going into then was probably most like "New Age" music because that was what she sang and I decided I liked things about it. After some introspection I realized I wanted nothing to do with "new age" or any "spirit" of this age because I know too much about all of that. I know where it originates and I know where it leads.I know what it claims to be and what it isn't. The tech can surely benefit everyone. 65 year olds with Vienna all loaded up composing symphonies isn't a bad thing. Anyone who ever dreamed of composing their own symphony, have at it. You could attempt to sell it even. I don't chase after any fads. At my age I have realized I can still make music for people my age, and I do, and I get comments they like it. I get more out of that than chasing what's in and trying to copy it. It is getting a little more difficult to find good fairly priced hardware because the manufacturers are making teeny little electronic keyboards and hit boxes. And if that's where it's all going I'll be taking another route. And if my channels all get buried in social media I don't care. I really don't. Sometimes, the influence of teachers and experiences can shape our interests and beliefs in unexpected ways. It's understandable to be cautious about certain genres or spiritual paths based on your knowledge and experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Smith Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 4 hours ago, Bridget Murphy said: Sometimes, the influence of teachers and experiences can shape our interests and beliefs in unexpected ways. It's understandable to be cautious about certain genres or spiritual paths based on your knowledge and experiences. It seems everything in one way or another influences us, would you agree? I tend to generalize an experience on a whole lot of people which really isn't being entirely fair. Deep down I know this, yet it's the only experience I have so it influenced me. I have learned I prefer to be out of boxes, but still find myself in them at times. We all grow over time. As a Christian I see lots of boxes constructed by other Christians which are largely unnecessary. And being what I am in this time has challenges as it isn't overall generally well recieved often due to the way many see it. Some genre or individuals will lead me away from the ideal so I mostly avoid them. I have come a long way as I once entertained all music that seemed to be tapping into the magical which is glamourized. It was an interesting novelty, but the connotations of magic imply sleight and that's basically what it is in that context with respect to motive. Not that my side doesn't believe in it. It's all about the motive and the source. The forums here are generally intentionally shallow and that seems to be how forums almost all are now. Since this isn't a philosophy area, I'll get my coat There are other forums I go to for that. No not John's forum either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridget Murphy Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 On 3/15/2024 at 10:36 PM, Tim Smith said: It seems everything in one way or another influences us, would you agree? I tend to generalize an experience on a whole lot of people which really isn't being entirely fair. Deep down I know this, yet it's the only experience I have so it influenced me. I have learned I prefer to be out of boxes, but still find myself in them at times. We all grow over time. As a Christian I see lots of boxes constructed by other Christians which are largely unnecessary. And being what I am in this time has challenges as it isn't overall generally well recieved often due to the way many see it. Some genre or individuals will lead me away from the ideal so I mostly avoid them. I have come a long way as I once entertained all music that seemed to be tapping into the magical which is glamourized. It was an interesting novelty, but the connotations of magic imply sleight and that's basically what it is in that context with respect to motive. Not that my side doesn't believe in it. It's all about the motive and the source. The forums here are generally intentionally shallow and that seems to be how forums almost all are now. Since this isn't a philosophy area, I'll get my coat There are other forums I go to for that. No not John's forum either. On 3/15/2024 at 10:36 PM, Tim Smith said: It seems everything in one way or another influences us, would you agree? I tend to generalize an experience on a whole lot of people which really isn't being entirely fair. Deep down I know this, yet it's the only experience I have so it influenced me. I have learned I prefer to be out of boxes, but still find myself in them at times. We all grow over time. As a Christian I see lots of boxes constructed by other Christians which are largely unnecessary. And being what I am in this time has challenges as it isn't overall generally well recieved often due to the way many see it. Some genre or individuals will lead me away from the ideal so I mostly avoid them. I have come a long way as I once entertained all music that seemed to be tapping into the magical which is glamourized. It was an interesting novelty, but the connotations of magic imply sleight and that's basically what it is in that context with respect to motive. Not that my side doesn't believe in it. It's all about the motive and the source. The forums here are generally intentionally shallow and that seems to be how forums almost all are now. Since this isn't a philosophy area, I'll get my coat There are other forums I go to for that. No not John's forum either. Totally agree sir, there are even times that forcing yourself in a box would do more harm than good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 Sometimes you have to think outside the box! Squirrel!!! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy1 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 On 3/1/2022 at 9:40 AM, Byron Dickens said: Muskrat Love if I hear it I want to go on a tri state killing spree. They were a one hit wonder. Anyone remember their TV show? The reason why music is considered so bad today is it's over-manufactured. Too much quantity. 30 years from now people will consider it good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 56 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: Muskrat Love if I hear it I want to go on a tri state killing spree. *Makes note to use that in my defense...* ? 56 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: The reason why music is considered so bad today is it's over-manufactured. Too much quantity. 30 years from now people will consider it good. But will Buckethead still be alive? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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