Is Cakewalk Reliable For Large Projects?

[Tim Smith]

You guys using CbB for anything more involved?

When I say large, I also mean complex, like mixes with extensive plugin chains.

Could be less that say 20 tracks and still large in terms of  routing, plugins, sample libraries, etc.

[Shane_B.]

Oh man, that's a loaded question here.

I used to use it for more in depth projects like that but it was a crash fest so I switched DAW's eventually. I can honestly tell you I can count on 1 hand the amount of crashes I've had since I switched. That said, Sonar is now CbB and a different program now. It seems to be as rock solid when I do try it as S1 is. I wouldn't hesitate to use CbB now for larger projects.

The only reason I haven't switched back is I paid a lot of money for S1 and I'm so used to it now. The GUI is soooo horrible in it though. I much prefer CbB's. They just need to update it for 4K monitors .... nudge nudge wink wink. That and I'm winding down on music. As the years roll on and the people who created the music I love are all but gone it's having an impact on me and I'm losing interest in recording and playing more and more. I could even see a day soon when I just mix down what I have now, put it on a storage device and wipe my HDD to save room. And the irony of that is, I have the most screaming, rock solid DAW I have ever had right now.

Give it a try. It's free. But I understand the reluctance seeing how you risk getting deep in to a complex project like that and find it's not working. Make a fake project. Just do something from the hip with tons of tracks with tons of VST's and sample libraries. Randomly draw automation. Mess with tempo timing. Just take a Sunday morning and create something even if it sounds horrible and see how it holds up. 

I do remember using a lot of automation took a toll on Sonar. It makes any recording software run harder. The more I added the more corrupt the project became and the more unstable it all was.

[Bajan Blue]

Yes all the time - all our music is done in Cakewalk - some projects will have 70+ tracks and many plug-ins

Nigel

 

[Tim Smith]

I never had issue with Cakewalk until more recently, even after the last update. Only two things changed which leads me to believe the issues are related.

• I have been playing with sample rate changes. I'll mix with a higher latency but go to a lower latency when I play a part using a vst. 
• I recently loaded some new libraries and another DAW. Cubase. Before that I had Studio One 5 Pro,  Mixcraft,  Acid pro, Ableton all playing together ok so long as I didn't have them launched together. Nothing happened until I loaded Cubase which seemed to somehow conflict with Cakewalk maybe?

All I can tell you is that now Cakewalk says it needs to shut down before I can even load it. My mixes don't tend to be large mixes because I am busy, so I'm lucky to put a few ideas down and let it go at that. I'm not making epic presentations, I'm making simple songs usually.

Until I bought Cubase on a great deal, I listened to all of the stories about how complicated it was to use. I was of the opinion that it was " too much DAW" for my purposes. Plus it was simply too expensive to consider me buying it. If I had bought it sooner I would have realized how easy it really is to use ( for me at least). In fact it is hands down the easiest for me to use now. Similar to what many say about Mac computers- It just works. Of all my DAWs it does the most and I like that it's cross platform. It doesn't stall on sample rate changes. Instead it gives me options. Never had a serious failure using it yet.

I attempted to boot CbB last evening and managed to boot it in safe mode. None of my other DAWS are not booting up. Only Cakewalk. I downloaded the latest version of CbB and it did the same things again. One error seems to be a spooling error and the other error seems to be happening when it loads my Focusrite drivers for audio.

Things I like about CbB

• I can still work in it very fast 
• It can utilize plugins and instruments none of my other DAWs will load. 

I did manage to get Cakewalk working one time the other evening.

 I was using a free Cockos plugin that dates back to 2016 called Reastream that works great with OBS Studio to makes recorded screen captures. It's a VST 2.0 plugin and Cubase only takes VST 3 plugins.

You basically drop Reastream into you master> set to to send local broadcast audio. Then you put another copy of it into OBS as a receive channel and set it up under 'filters' in OBS which can  now see vst plugins. Those two plugins talk between your DAW, onboard computer audio and OBS which works like a mixer and screen grabber at the same time with almost no latency. You can find info how to do it in more detail on YouTube.

..........anyways I actually made CbB work well there before it crashed again. 

So I'm not sure what's up, and I don't have the time to be troubleshooting a DAW at length. I'll just use what seems to be working for me, and right now it's Cubase.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Tim Smith

[Base 57]

9 minutes ago, Tim Smith said:

I recently loaded some new libraries and another DAW. Cubase

I believe it is Cubase that by default loads an audio driver that is based on ASIOforall that hoses Cakewalk. I don't remember seeing any posts on the forum complaining about it recently, but in the past there were several.

[Bapu]

So I have this monster tutorial with multiple DAW versions of the song from Slate Academy by Kane Churko that would only play on Reaper until I upgraded to my  Intel I9 10900K processor O.C. 5.0GHz.

On the PC it would not play in CbB, Cubase 11, Studio One Pro 5, ProTools 12 & Digital Performer 10.

On my 2013 MacBook Pro the project would only play on Reaper. Then I got a late 2012 MacPro with Dual Xenon processors the project would play in ProTools 12, Studio One Pro 5, Digital Performer 10, Cubase 11 and Logic Pro X.

 

[Bapu]

5 minutes ago, Base 57 said:

I believe it is Cubase that by default loads an audio driver that is based on ASIOforall that hoses Cakewalk. I don't remember seeing any posts on the forum complaining about it recently, but in the past there were several.

I don't recall that about Cubase (tho it could be true) but I do remember that Samplitude did that.

 

[Tim Smith]

I hate to tell you this, but I'm probably not uninstalling Cubase. I don't want to loose Cakewalk either.

[scook]

The Generic Low Latency Driver installed by default with Cubase is a problem.

If this was installed, uninstall it, rename the dll or remove the driver entry from HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ASIO

[Tim Smith]

56 minutes ago, scook said:

The Generic Low Latency Driver installed by default with Cubase is a problem.

If this was installed, uninstall it, rename the dll or remove the driver entry from HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ASIO

OK I'll check it out and thanks @scook

 I am aware you are FAR more knowledgeable of the inner workings of a software program than I am. I'm just wondering if I do this could it cause another issue in Cubase? Everything I'm using right now uses  Focusrite drivers.

It doesn't seem there would be an issue, however with Steinberg soon releasing a different registration process, I wonder if it could flag a change and see it as a problem?

[Byron Dickens]

Is Cakewalk Reliable For Large Projects?

Yes

[Jeremy Oakes]

Agreed, large projects are not an issue with Cakewalk. If we record a live set (1 hour +) we use a Soundcraft MTK 22 with full USB capability into an i5 laptop running a 16 track CbB template. Bees knees !

FWIW, Cubase, Samplitude, Magix audio products, Fruity Loops et al install their own version of our favourite wrapper. In most cases you’re given a choice during initial software installation if you want it or not. Just do the registry “hack” if it it slips through onto your system.

Jerry

[Brian Walton]

20 minutes ago, Jeremy Oakes said:

Agreed, large projects are not an issue with Cakewalk. If we record a live set (1 hour +) we use a Soundcraft MTK 22 with full USB capability into an i5 laptop running a 16 track CbB template. Bees knees !

FWIW, Cubase, Samplitude, Magix audio products, Fruity Loops et al install their own version of our favourite wrapper. In most cases you’re given a choice during initial software installation if you want it or not. Just do the registry “hack” if it it slips through onto your system.

Jerry

I agree the software is capable of large projects, but recording 16 tracks live -  presumably latency and plugins isn't even a consideration for resource needs as it wouldn't be doing all that real time processing.   (I was running similar projects with Cakewalk Sonar 4 about 15 years ago).  

Running 15 VSTis all with a long list of plugin chains and mastering plugins on the master bus plus running a guitar VST with low enough latency to not sense a hint of delay playing real time....then we are cooking - but this is going to be computer dependent as well....my main machine can't handle that but I'd imagine other decked out modern machines could.  

Edited February 28, 2022 by Brian Walton

[scook]

4 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

I'm just wondering if I do this could it cause another issue in Cubase? Everything I'm using right now uses  Focusrite drivers.

I do not use Cubase, but my understanding is removal of the generic driver is not a problem for those with another ASIO driver.

All generic drivers may interfere with real ASIO drivers.

 

 

[Tim Smith]

16 hours ago, Jeremy Oakes said:

Agreed, large projects are not an issue with Cakewalk. If we record a live set (1 hour +) we use a Soundcraft MTK 22 with full USB capability into an i5 laptop running a 16 track CbB template. Bees knees !

FWIW, Cubase, Samplitude, Magix audio products, Fruity Loops et al install their own version of our favourite wrapper. In most cases you’re given a choice during initial software installation if you want it or not. Just do the registry “hack” if it it slips through onto your system.

Jerry

I appreciate yours and others input on this. In hindsight really my question was over simplified. I would imagine running audio only would be no issue provided you have a large enough hard drive. 

A few things that have a high likelyhood of working for a larger project would obviously start with at least a semi powerful machine. A computer with good specs for the work. Not necessarily the best of the best.

Secondly, using the built in DAW channel effects are an advantage so far as cpu drain. It is probably debatable as to which is best in any given situation in using built in .vs 3rd party. Some people love the brick wall limiter in Cakewalk. The EQ in it has an amazing GUI as good as most others. I'm sure the built in effects are useful and I have found them to be highly efficient, but not as good as a few of the other 3rd party plugins. That could be said of most other DAWS. In some cases though, the improvements are more drastic. A good mixer could use them and most people would not know the difference. A few plug ins can be real cpu hogs. Abbey Road Chambers comes to mind as one of those plug ins, and even though it gets raves, I can often use one of my other less touted plugins and it works just as well for the mix.

Next would be  recording resolutions. Big difference between 24/96 and 16/44.1

But yeah, if your in the balloon and trying to gain altitude, throwing weight off always helps-

• Use 16/44.1
• Use the included plugins
• Separate the mastering stage from the mixing stage
• Streamline the OS for audio, removing unnecessary programs and tasks.

I have had mixes choke at 15-20 tracks in Cakewalk because I had a bunch of heavy plugins loaded and was tracking in 24/48 with a bunch of unfrozen instruments.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Tim Smith

[Tim Smith]

14 hours ago, scook said:

I do not use Cubase, but my understanding is removal of the generic driver is not a problem for those with another ASIO driver.

All generic drivers may interfere with real ASIO drivers.

 

 

I'm sorry scook I wasn't attempting to put you on the spot with this. Thank you for your help here.

I can always give it a shot and put it back if there are issues. I just found it odd that all the other DAWS were working and Cakewalk wasn't. No two are the same exactly so that would make sense that maybe Cakewalk is doing something slightly different at startup with regard to the drivers than the others.

[jesse g]

Yes, Cakewalk by BandLab can handle large projects a long as your computer can handle it.   Cakewalk would not be the problem,  your computer would have to be up to the task of handling the plugins you intend to use, plus the track count, plus the bus count with plugins, plus the sends and the Aux tracks.   If you plan on loading up a project with all of this and have a heavy track count with multiple routing, then get rid of your quad core PC and move to a modern i7 or i9 processor with some real RAM and you should do fine.  This is for All DAWS.

However, if you are strictly a two track person, (vocal and music track), then you should not have a problem recording on anything.

Thinking now,  I need to get a new processor and Motherboard.  ?

[Tim Smith]

I need to focus some attention to a new build as well. I seen i9 1100K on sale at new egg, just the processor for sale. The "K" designation might mean the chip is throttled in some way. I want something I can O.C.  with plenty of lanes.

With the future uncertainty of some components possibly becoming unavailable or more difficult to obtain, I am looking at maybe buying at least a processor and shopping for a motherboard that would fit well with the I/O I want. The capability to safely O.C. can help boost an older chip, like my 5820K 6 core. I O.C.d it to 5ghz. That chip has limited lane capability compared to others and is getting long in the tooth.

Many of the more recent Intel chips max in the 3-4 ghz range.  Sound libraries like lots of RAM. Audio only, not so much.

I have always been under a favorable impression that Cakewalk plays better than many other DAWs when it comes to efficiency using a later windows OS.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Tim Smith

[jackson white]

1 hour ago, Tim Smith said:

The "K" designation

means "unlocked", means you can overclock

Edited March 4, 2022 by jackson white

[Shane_B.]

1 hour ago, Tim Smith said:

The "K" designation might mean the chip is throttled in some way.

The K means it can be overclocked and has built in GPU support. This article explains all the letter meanings.

I wouldn't go with anything but a K series.

1 hour ago, Tim Smith said:

I have always been under a favorable impression that Cakewalk plays better than many other DAWs when it comes to efficiency using a later windows OS.

This has not been my experience. In order of DAW's I've used:

1.Reaper

2.Studio One

3.CbB

That said, the difference that I've seen between them in recent years is almost unmeasurable. Things have changed greatly since the days of Sonar. They've all become rock solid IMO. What my preferences boil down to these days is the visual and ease of use aspects. And with that kind of thing there is no right or wrong so to speak. I will say though, out of everything I've used, Sonar 8.5PE was the last DAW that I used that fit both of those requirements. I liked what it did and I could customize it to look exactly how I wanted. Man if it only had the features current DAW's had.