New DAW advice.

[Shane_B.]

I tried to post this in the Computer section, but never got a response and only a few views. IOW, it's deader than my P3 with 1GB RAM there. So .... I'll ask here and hope the forum God's spare me and leave this here where it will get more views.

It's time to upgrade. This time around I need to make my DAW multipurpose. I'm going to be using it as a DAW/very light video editor and Gaming PC. I only play a handful of games and they are old, but I want to mod them with updated graphics. I only play the Fallout Series and Skyrim which are all older games but they continue to be updated in the modding community and I'd like to get back in to PC gaming so I can mod them.

I want to base the system around the RTX 3060 TI because it will handle those games at very high framerates and hopefully it will handle the new versions of Fallout and The Elder Scrolls whenever they come out.

The problem is, the RTX 3060 TI costs almost as much stand alone than if I buy an entire pre-built system with it in it and every pre-built system I can find is water cooled. I don't want to deal with the whole water cooled thing. 

Do you have to water cool these newer RTX cards or will the stock fans be sufficient? I wonder if the official PC builders are buying them without cooling accessories on them to get them cheaper and are using their own systems they can get for less than if they got those with the fans. I've heard that water cooled is actually louder than fans because of the high speed fans on the heat sink area where the fluid is pumped through that sits directly on top of the PC. I can't imagine I'd be using very much of the capabilities of this card using it in 1080p/1440p @ 100 +/- fps. It won't be pushed, I just want to play a few old games as clear and smooth as I can. I was told a 1660TI would do 1080p/60fps with no issues at all. I would imagine this would do it with the fans barely ever going above idle speed.

Any help would be appreciated. Ready to buy. Now.

Thanks.

[Bapu]

Ask @Jim Roseberry

[craigb]

[Shane_B.]

15 minutes ago, Bapu said:

Ask @Jim Roseberry

I did. We were talking about a system last year, told him I was ready to buy, then radio silence and I never heard back from him. Then I got busy doing other things and forgot about it. I hope he's ok.

I'm only in the house and using my system during the late fall and winter months. As soon as spring breaks I'm always outside doing my thing and the DAW doesn't even get turned on until late fall again. Now I'm ready to buy again especially since my system isn't Windows 11 compatible. I'm going to use my current DAW to build a NAS server.

Edit to add: To this day a lot of my posts and messages don't go through on the forum. It's very possible he didn't get what I thought I sent. I've discovered that even though my cell makes the click sound when I click submit, a lot of times the post or PM does not go through. I don't know if it's my cell or the forum. If I send something from my cell I always have to wait after I click submit and double check. On PC it never seems to happen.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Shane_B.

[Bapu]

Well, Jim also has a physical email address that you could reply on. J/S.

[Byron Dickens]

40 minutes ago, Bapu said:

physical email address

?

[craigb]

To go along with his virtual postal address??? ?

[Jim Roseberry]

2 hours ago, Shane_B. said:

I did. We were talking about a system last year, told him I was ready to buy, then radio silence and I never heard back from him. Then I got busy doing other things and forgot about it. I hope he's ok.

I'm only in the house and using my system during the late fall and winter months. As soon as spring breaks I'm always outside doing my thing and the DAW doesn't even get turned on until late fall again. Now I'm ready to buy again especially since my system isn't Windows 11 compatible. I'm going to use my current DAW to build a NAS server.

Edit to add: To this day a lot of my posts and messages don't go through on the forum. It's very possible he didn't get what I thought I sent. I've discovered that even though my cell makes the click sound when I click submit, a lot of times the post or PM does not go through. I don't know if it's my cell or the forum. If I send something from my cell I always have to wait after I click submit and double check. On PC it never seems to happen.

All is well here...

 

Certainly didn't mean to drop-the-ball!

I was thinking you'd decided against getting a machine... and that's the last I remember of our conversations.

 

FWIW, my Email is easy to remember (jim@studiocat.com)

You're always welcome to send an Email... or give me a call/text.

 

[Shane_B.]

1 hour ago, Jim Roseberry said:

I was thinking you'd decided against getting a machine... and that's the last I remember of our conversations.

Thanks for the contact info. I'll definitely be getting in touch. Too much is changing too fast and I can't keep up with it all. For example my current rig only meets half the requirements for Windows 11 so I have no idea what would happen if I was forced to upgrade. I used to build all my own systems but just don't want to get in to it anymore. All I'll have to do for the NAS is pop some HDD's in to an existing working rig and then deal with the software side so that shouldn't be a big deal, knock on wood.

I'm still curious if anyone knows why there is a tendency to water cool these things. It seems overkill to me and a pain to maintain.

[Jim Roseberry]

36 minutes ago, Shane_B. said:

I'm still curious if anyone knows why there is a tendency to water cool these things. It seems overkill to me and a pain to maintain.

If you're talking about more recent make CPUs (5950x and 12900k), robust air-cooling isn't enough when the CPU is under heavy load.

Closed-loop water-coolers are maintenance-free.  You don't need to add coolant, etc.

With a water-cooler, you're dealing with both fan and pump noise.  Important to get one with a quiet pump (quiet fans are easy)

 

You'll see guys on YouTube building Threadripper machines using a NH-U14S or NH-D15 (large air-cooler).

Yeah, it's quiet.  ?

Put that CPU under load... and it thermal-throttles CPU clock-speed WAY down.

Kind of defeats the purpose of having a $1k+ CPU.   

The same is true for the 5950x and 12900k (just not as extreme).

[Zo]

5 hours ago, Shane_B. said:

I tried to post this in the Computer section, but never got a response and only a few views. IOW, it's deader than my P3 with 1GB RAM there. So .... I'll ask here and hope the forum God's spare me and leave this here where it will get more views.

It's time to upgrade. This time around I need to make my DAW multipurpose. I'm going to be using it as a DAW/very light video editor and Gaming PC. I only play a handful of games and they are old, but I want to mod them with updated graphics. I only play the Fallout Series and Skyrim which are all older games but they continue to be updated in the modding community and I'd like to get back in to PC gaming so I can mod them.

I want to base the system around the RTX 3060 TI because it will handle those games at very high framerates and hopefully it will handle the new versions of Fallout and The Elder Scrolls whenever they come out.

The problem is, the RTX 3060 TI costs almost as much stand alone than if I buy an entire pre-built system with it in it and every pre-built system I can find is water cooled. I don't want to deal with the whole water cooled thing. 

Do you have to water cool these newer RTX cards or will the stock fans be sufficient? I wonder if the official PC builders are buying them without cooling accessories on them to get them cheaper and are using their own systems they can get for less than if they got those with the fans. I've heard that water cooled is actually louder than fans because of the high speed fans on the heat sink area where the fluid is pumped through that sits directly on top of the PC. I can't imagine I'd be using very much of the capabilities of this card using it in 1080p/1440p @ 100 +/- fps. It won't be pushed, I just want to play a few old games as clear and smooth as I can. I was told a 1660TI would do 1080p/60fps with no issues at all. I would imagine this would do it with the fans barely ever going above idle speed.

Any help would be appreciated. Ready to buy. Now.

Thanks.

I don't know if what i do video wise is something you're familiar with but , since few years i'm no more using my laptop but desktop for sounds AND vidoes , and it's the built in intel gpu , and it's more than enogth .

My computer is an all passive one , i added an uad card in (and another outside) and i'm 100 % silent and happy ...zero noise in studio , from the RME to anything .

If it's something you're considering :

 

Mine is based on this case : https://streacom.com/products/fc5-fanless-atx-case/

 

All the fanless cases are here : https://streacom.com/products/?_product_category=case-fanless

Edited January 21, 2022 by Zo

[craigb]

2 hours ago, Zo said:

I don't know if what i do video wise is something you're familiar with but , since few years i'm no more using my laptop but desktop for sounds AND vidoes , and it's the built in intel gpu , and it's more than enogth .

My computer is an all passive one , i added an uad card in (and another outside) and i'm 100 % silent and happy ...zero noise in studio , from the RME to anything .

If it's something you're considering :

 

Mine is based on this case : https://streacom.com/products/fc5-fanless-atx-case/

 

All the fanless cases are here : https://streacom.com/products/?_product_category=case-fanless

Didn't realize DJ's needed that much of a system!  ???

?

[paulo]

9 hours ago, craigb said:

Didn't realize DJ's needed that much of a system! 

Disco balls must use a lot more power than you'd think.....

 

[X-53mph]

@Shane_B. Most of what you mention in your first post is gaming and graphics.... You don't mention anything about your music needs. 

For example: what audio setup do you have? Do you need an external card? What's your normal usage? Do you multi-track? Do you use virtual instruments or record yourself? Will you need multiple drives to store kontakt libraries etc?

All of the above would be useful to know for a DAW.

 

[Shane_B.]

3 hours ago, Philip G Hunt said:

@Shane_B. Most of what you mention in your first post is gaming and graphics.... You don't mention anything about your music needs. 

For example: what audio setup do you have? Do you need an external card? What's your normal usage? Do you multi-track? Do you use virtual instruments or record yourself? Will you need multiple drives to store kontakt libraries etc?

All of the above would be useful to know for a DAW.

My current DAW is in my sig. I don't have Kontakt but I think I'm going to have to get in to it soon. I only use Dim Pro, Session Drummer 3, and the various things that came with Sonar back in the day but it's all getting old. It will stop working eventually and maybe even with Windows 11, who knows.

I use virtual instruments but I always freeze or 'transform to audio track' as they call it in Studio One. So in the end I always end up working with all wav's and FX VST's. Even if I had a powerhouse DAW I would still do that. I always preferred working with wavs. I only ever record 4 inputs at a time max. My Studio 1810c is a current interface you can still buy new and is a bit of overkill but I wanted something with the 4 inputs on the front so I went with it. Side note: I got it refurbed dirt cheap on Amazon and I was shipped a brand new factory sealed one with full warranty.

I've never had a problem with my current rig. I never outgrew it but I think the time is coming soon where I'll have to give up all the things that came with Sonar that I use and start getting in to something different than Session Drummer 3 and Dim Pro. I would simply put the RTX 3060 TI in my current DAW but it requires a PCI 4 slot and my Gen 6 CPU/Mobo only supports PCI 3. From what I've read you have to have at least a Gen 7 or higher system for Windows 11, so I think it's time.

[X-53mph]

@Shane_B. You were certainly lucky with the Studio 1810. Having that card should do you service for a good many years on whatever system you choose to buy.

Reading how you use your setup, I'd say you could probably buy any modern off-the-shelf system and probably get the performance you need for audio.... Which brings us back to the limiting factor in your choice of new system. Gaming.

If you are going to be building the system with gaming in mind, audio production is really just an after thought. You're going to need to focus on tons of CPU and video card power (and lots of ram)...and that is not necessarily what you need for audio. 

For example, when recording audio or working with VSTs, you don't want CPU bursts, you want consistency. So when you see a CPU that can boost to 3+GHz, that is not much use when making music. You want it to be running at a nice smooth consistent rate, so it would be better to select a good CPU with a high base rate that won't overheat. Gaming requires boosting and overclocking, which is why gamers want those wanky neon cooling units....but for recording 4 inputs and working with wavs, that's like doing your shopping in a Ferrari. 

The same issue with graphics. Music production doesn't require a massive graphics card or insane display resolution. But if you work with video production, that becomes important. However, if the video card runs hot, you've got an issue with fan noise in your recordings (swings and roundabouts). 

If I might make suggestion. Why don't you get two separate machines? One for gaming and one for music. Since your music making needs seem modest, you could even go mobile (you've already got the usb sound card) and you could free yourself from that desk....become a mobile studio. Imagine being able to mix music in your bed, in a cafe, at a friend's house....rather than being chained to the desk.

Just a thought.

[Jim Roseberry]

One great machine with something like the 12900k and a RTX 3xxx series video card (with 0dB fan mode) would excel at both running DAW applications, video editing,... as well as games.

You don't want to build something like this fully passive-cooled.

You could... but it would be a thermal-throttling disaster.   ?

 

[jackson white]

jayzus... just got around to looking at video cards, should have invested in video ram instead of bitcoin. must be giving the cable aisle at microcenter a run for the money as the best performing profit center. 

[X-53mph]

38 minutes ago, jackson white said:

jayzus... just got around to looking at video cards, should have invested in video ram instead of bitcoin. must be giving the cable aisle at microcenter a run for the money as the best performing profit center. 

Yeah. Apparently the price is being driven up because there's a shortage of chips. Not to mention a lack of fish.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Philip G Hunt

[Byron Dickens]

It's F-ing crypto miners jacking up the prices of video cards.