"Upgraded" to Windows 10, Cakewalk performance has suffered greatly

[abacab]

5 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

BTW this will not stop updating a newer version of W10.

Yes, wushowhide CAN hide the W10 version updates, just like any other update. Windows update will not download and run any hidden updates.  This tool even works in Windows 10 Home.

But the little trick is you must hide them before Windows update finds them. 

One thing to be wary of is that MS sometimes re-releases an update, which can make it available again even after you have hidden it, because it is  now a new version of the update. Like a game of whack-a-mole.

Edited January 21, 2019 by abacab

[Suboculis]

The Spring update will allow you to stop downloading updates even with the Home version.

[abacab]

1 hour ago, Suboculis said:

The Spring update will allow you to stop downloading updates even with the Home version.

Any links? The only reference I see is to the Spring 2018 update.

[Steev]

@Starship Krupa said 

My system has settled down since I first pulled an older nVidia GPU that I suspect of having drivers that were too old for Windows 10, and second, turning off Defender's realtime scanning. I want to find an inexpensive replacement for the nVidia, because now the graphics look like poo. Unfortunately, graphics cards are all about 3-D performance and pay no mind to 2-D performance, which is what I am most interested in. I figure the humblest $30 card should be fine for my aging Optiplex, but I don't know what to get.

 

Ever use www.pricewatch.com  to search for the best deals available? It's especially good for searching for new parts and peripherals for matching up aging computers. I found several very good super cheap deals in both PCI and PCIe 16x formats. 

Most impressive for immediate purchase  AMD FirePro V3900 actually packs a decent amount whoop for $25 with free shipping from AccendTech.  AMD FirePro V3900 1GB DDR3 DVI DisplayPort PCI-Express Graphics Video Card  manufactured by ATI. 

 I believe this V3900 is selling for 10x less then I paid for it back in the day when it was new tech.

Requires PCIe 16x slot.. If you don't have a PCIe 16x slot, skip down to Requires PCI slot

This was a very decent entry level video editing card back in the day, certainly not anymore with computers with newer PCIe 16x v3 spec, but for older aging machines it's VERY HIGH TECH! And  it still can outperform any onboard video chips  and renders video at least 5x-10x faster.

I actually owned and installed a V3900 as an upgrade from an nVidea that shipped with it, specifically for video editing with Sony Vegas Pro 4 with my 2012 Dell Opiplex which was upgraded from Windows Vista to Win 7 to Win 10 and still being used today by Niece Emily.

 Even today I still use the newer, bigger, stronger FirePro V5900, which is now obsolete since AMD's new Rysen tech came out, but still widely available, but only about $50 less then I paid for it when it was new tech.. But that's still a couple hundred dollars more then you want to spend, and if you don't have PCIe 16 v3 support which I'm thinking maybe doubtful, you wouldn't even have the extra bandwidth be able tell the difference between a V3900 vs. V5900.

 I also believe that ALL of the obsolete FirePro V series accelerated graphics card run the same "Legacy Drivers" that are Digitally Signed and Certified for Windows 10

 I believe this V3900 is selling for 10x less then I paid for it back in the day when it was new tech.

 Capable of 1080 p HD, has it's own Accelerated Graphics GPU with 1 GB of it's own memory should be more then enough for good 2D and 3D rendering without even have to ration and share system memory or rely on using up CPU power (cycles) at all. It will allow for extra CPU bandwidth that can be used for your DAW.

 

Requires PCI slot

You're screwed, I couldn't find ANY PCI video cards that are supported by Windows 10, but I did  find a PreSonus Studio 2|6 USB 2x4 USB Audio Interface with 2 XMAX-L Preamps for only $175 which is only about $5O LESS then a comparable Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 and both WILL work on your computer without having to buy a whole new freak'in special ASUS motherboard!! Now that's about right for audio interfaces you never had any intentions of buying.

 Sorry, I just couldn't resist???? 

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Steev

[kitekrazy1]

4 hours ago, abacab said:

Yes, wushowhide CAN hide the W10 version updates, just like any other update. Windows update will not download and run any hidden updates.  This tool even works in Windows 10 Home.

But the little trick is you must hide them before Windows update finds them. 

One thing to be wary of is that MS sometimes re-releases an update, which can make it available again even after you have hidden it, because it is  now a new version of the update. Like a game of whack-a-mole.

 

   I updated both machines to 1809 and lucky for me it didn't mess up my network.    Usually turn off password protection sharing is broken and I have to revert. Maybe they canned the developer who breaks this.

[Midiboy]

On 1/19/2019 at 12:13 PM, Steev said:

Apple Updater is another thing entirely, you can shut it down, but all your Apple software will stop working. Apple's iCloud, only necessary if you are collaborating and sharing files between a Windows computer and a Mac, iCloud is similar to Microsoft OneDrive, but they have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The only thing they have in common is they both require setting up and maintaining accounts (as in logging in and Maintaining them and) will BOTH run in the background and send massive amounts of data back and forth if you don't maintain them and take out the garbage every once in a while. And there's also Google Drive which will do the same thing if you're not careful.

 

Two comments...first on your other post that talked about 1803 vs 1809 Win10...1803 is no longer being withheld for MOST people.  The file deletion issue only affected people who relocated their Documents / Music / Video etc. libraries from their default locations.  This has been fixed.

If you still don't have 1809, it is likely you have iCloud installed.  MS is withholding the update for people that have iCloud installed until MS and Apple can figure out why 1809 breaks iCloud.  

Now, the other comments....you said that iCloud is only necessary if you are collaborating and sharing files between a Windows computer and a MAC.  Again, this is not true.

iCloud is handy for people with an iPhone or iPad who takes video / pictures.  Having iCloud on your PC allows you to use File Explorer on your Windows PC to browse any pictures or Video you may have taken with your iPhone / iPad.  (Assuming you have your Apple device set to sync to iCloud). 

This is the easiest way to get a video off your iPhone to your Windows computer.  

I do this all the time as I am also a video editor that uses Vegas Pro 16.  

Keep in mind, even if you have iCloud on your PC, you can FORCE 1809 by downloading it directly from MS site.  It will warn you that you have incompatible software first.  

Edited January 21, 2019 by Midiboy
Update

[Ted Tanner]

I have similar issues.... audio dropout in exact some time increments, slow playback starts.  I'm upgrading memory from 8 to 16 gig.  I've scrubbed all drivers and optimized the PC.  My fingers are crossed, I'll soon know.

Thank all of you for you helpful input and time commenting here.  A smart group.

 

Ted

[Starship Krupa]

6 hours ago, Steev said:

Ever use www.pricewatch.com  to search for the best deals available? It's especially good for searching for new parts and peripherals for matching up aging computers. I found several very good super cheap deals in both PCI and PCIe 16x formats. 

Most impressive for immediate purchase  AMD FirePro V3900 actually packs a decent amount whoop for $25 with free shipping from AccendTech.  AMD FirePro V3900 1GB DDR3 DVI DisplayPort PCI-Express Graphics Video Card  manufactured by ATI. 

 I believe this V3900 is selling for 10x less then I paid for it back in the day when it was new tech.

Requires PCIe 16x slot.. If you don't have a PCIe 16x slot, skip down to Requires PCI slot

This was a very decent entry level video editing card back in the day, certainly not anymore with computers with newer PCIe 16x v3 spec, but for older aging machines it's VERY HIGH TECH! And  it still can outperform any onboard video chips  and renders video at least 5x-10x faster.

I actually owned and installed a V3900 as an upgrade from an nVidea that shipped with it, specifically for video editing with Sony Vegas Pro 4 with my 2012 Dell Opiplex which was upgraded from Windows Vista to Win 7 to Win 10 and still being used today by Niece Emily.

12-sided Dude! Now we're talkin! I didn't know that Pricewatch was still around. Party like it's 1999.

Buying graphics cards for my trailing-edge systems has been my achilles heel. It's always about "will it play Halo?"

I, too am a Vegas baby, still light up my copy of 10 Pro from time to time, so if you say that this pup works a treat with Emily's Optiplex and Vegas and Cakewalk....this info is GOLD.

My main system is an Optiplex 7010. It has a Gen 2 Pci-e slot for a video card. I need to drive a monitor with a DVI port and a Display Port and another monitor with an HDMI port, so the card you showed me would work with my Display Port to HDMI adaptor.

I lean toward nVidia cards rather than AMD because of past troubles with Mixcraft and general lore in the DAW world. However, if you have empirical first-hand knowledge, that counts for a great deal with me.

[Steev]

13 hours ago, Midiboy said:

Two comments...first on your other post that talked about 1803 vs 1809 Win10...1803 is no longer being withheld for MOST people.  The file deletion issue only affected people who relocated their Documents / Music / Video etc. libraries from their default locations.  This has been fixed.

If you still don't have 1809, it is likely you have iCloud installed.  MS is withholding the update for people that have iCloud installed until MS and Apple can figure out why 1809 breaks iCloud.  

Now, the other comments....you said that iCloud is only necessary if you are collaborating and sharing files between a Windows computer and a MAC.  Again, this is not true.

iCloud is handy for people with an iPhone or iPad who takes video / pictures.  Having iCloud on your PC allows you to use File Explorer on your Windows PC to browse any pictures or Video you may have taken with your iPhone / iPad.  (Assuming you have your Apple device set to sync to iCloud). 

This is the easiest way to get a video off your iPhone to your Windows computer.  

I do this all the time as I am also a video editor that uses Vegas Pro 16.  

Keep in mind, even if you have iCloud on your PC, you can FORCE 1809 by downloading it directly from MS site.  It will warn you that you have incompatible software first.  

Thank you Midiboy, you have just cleared up a LOT of misunderstanding at least for me who is still running 1803 who unfortunately for business has to use iCloud and Avid cloud server because, for business purposes, like it or not, I HAVE to use Pro Tools and a Mac. That's not a choice or even a problem, it's a CONDITION!

Using Windows 10 Pro, I had deferred updating to 1809 for 3 months which is coming up in February. And if I don't see any reports of these problems being solved, as much as I don't like to fall behind in any updates, I will defer it again.

 I'm thinking 1809's new found ability to "Hide" updates users "think" they don't want actually translates well into any users having the ability to refuse any updates they "need". The legalese language is very vague and stays in the center of the gray area of understanding, partly to appease a balance of understanding between the control freaks who think they can only survive by having complete control over their computer, and those of us who understand it's not even possible for anyone to have complete control over anything.

 And I hope nobody here takes offence, but I'll get my progress reports from the Windows Insider Program and NOT the Cakewalk/Bandlab User Forums where confusion on such matters reigns supreme when conversations get so far off topic they split off into multiple totally irrelevant conversations (like this) it get hard to tell who's trying to be helpful and who's just going for "YOU ARE WRONG" and "I AM RIGHT" kind of pissing contest that has nothing to do with the original problem.

 Which I believe was concerning sever latency between hitting the space bar to start "playback" and waiting for playback to start a couple seconds later, or several hundred msecs later if you prefer, as the proper terminology for describing latency is always measured in, and then all of a sudden the solution for suggesting and brand new Presonus Quantum Thunderbolt 3 interface, which is actually a Thunderbolt 2 interface, but is suggested to require a Thunderbolt 3 interface that is capable of porting to a USBc port is the easiest solution?

 Well ya know what? Apple will sell you an adapter cable for $29 (us) that will allow you to plug the Presonus Quantum into an existing Firewire port, THAT'S what. And if @Starship Krupa already gets down to 2msec with his ancient outdated Focusrite's and the Quantum can't do better thru the same Firewire port then it's a piece of junk. 

 I'm sorry, but that's just gut busting hilarious to me, and that forces my sense of humor to shift into overdrive. And then when it was implied that I was an amateur who doesn't have a FAQ'in CLUE as to what I'm talking about "DON'T LISTEN TO THAT IDIOT STEEV", that just pushed my sense of humor into "Turbo Boost" and I decided to have some fun with my attackers, being the conversation was already derailed, rape is inevitable so I might as well lie back and enjoy the smackdown and smack back at my earliest convenience.

1/2" = 2/4" = 4/8's of an inch, each measurement is of equal value, and it's get's even more confusing when converting to metrics.

 And when I was talking about sharing files to collaborate between a Windows computer and a Mac, I was referring to the entire "Apple Mac Environment" which includes iPhones and iPad devices.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Steev

[Grem]

@Steev, I have been following this thread the whole time. I do this for the sole reason of I may learn something. I saw no where in this thread that any one suggested you were an idiot. And I did not take some of the responses as a "Pissing" contest. To me it was just a conversation that went in a direction that kept my interest.

 

IIRC, ( and I'm not going back to fact check) no one suggested that the OP get a new Presonus Quantum. The conversation, as I remember, lead into talking about latency, and the Quantum was brought up in the conversation, not as a solution. : )

[Jim Roseberry]

Thunderbolt provides access to the PCIe bus.  It's essentially external PCIe.

Firewire does not (never has... and cannot) provide access to the PCIe bus.

Thus, there is no Firewire to Thunderbolt adapter (not possible).  There is a Thunderbolt-3 to Firewire adapter (which is similar to running a PCIe Firewire controller).

 

Never said Quantum was Thunderbolt-3 audio interface.  (Right now, UA has Thunderbolt-3 on the Arrow... and as an option on Apollo.)

On a PC, Quantum has to be connected to a Thunderbolt-3 controller.

Microsoft only supports "PCIe via Thunderbolt" with Thunderbolt-3 controllers (there is no "PCIe via Thunderbolt" support for Thunderbolt-2 controllers).

Mac users can use an older Thunderbolt-2 controller... as OSX does support "PCIe via Thunderbolt" with Thunderbolt-2 controllers.

The reason why "PCIe via Thunderbolt" is important; it allows external devices to function as PCIe devices (just like an internal PCIe card).

 

 

 

 

 

[Steev]

1 hour ago, Grem said:

@Steev, I have been following this thread the whole time. I do this for the sole reason of I may learn something. I saw no where in this thread that any one suggested you were an idiot. And I did not take some of the responses as a "Pissing" contest. To me it was just a conversation that went in a direction that kept my interest.

 

IIRC, ( and I'm not going back to fact check) no one suggested that the OP get a new Presonus Quantum. The conversation, as I remember, lead into talking about latency, and the Quantum was brought up in the conversation, not as a solution. : )

Yes Grem, it happened, and it was quite funny actually. Especially around the part where some guy named Jim was claiming to "UPGRADE" and replace his Universal Audio Apollo with a Presonus Quantum, and bragging about it???

Pheww, my bullshit meter got pegged over red line with that one, and I read that post 3 times to see if I was even reading it right, wondering if I was losing my mind or my reading comprehension or both. I don't know if you ever had the pleasure of recording with an Apollo, but...…………..

 In my mind's eye that an equivalent of saying you are upgrading from your Bentley Arnage' T to a Hyundai Elantra, and even though I really like our family Hyundai Elantra quite a bit, who in the name of Zeus's BUTTHOLE would be arrogant enough to try and sell that as an upgrade, and CLEARLY write a claim that I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! ? And then a Troll buddy chimes in and retorts; "Ya know Steev some of us are professionals around here like me (snort, snort) and Jim (oink, oink), and there are reason's why we (burp) and (fart) (fart). so on and so forth.

Too bad you missed it. I'm sure it's still there somewhere unless it was deleted or edited.?? I've been spoken down to as if I was a naughty child and my feelings got hurt is all.. No biggie, as I am, admittedly, at times, often very child like..?

 Nah, not really, I've been involved in writing, recording and making music in this crazy biz since the late 60's, and so I think I may have completely lost my abilities to become offended or even respond to anything like flattery or praise.. It's not that I don't notice, it just doesn't make me particularly angry or happy, it actually makes me LMAO.. ? I swear, I even woke up this morning giggling, and LMAO at times at the thought until my better half Susie, started giggling with me, and finally asked, "OK what's so funny?" And so I gave her my "look" and asked her if she really wanted to know, and she just shook her head, "I don't have the time right not now, I can see an idea forming in your head and I'll wait until the song is finished."  And so Susie drove off to work into the morning's frigid, frigid air, and with the creaking sound of ice crackling under the tires of her Hyundai Elantra she waves and blows me a final kiss goodbye as she drives off to stoke the fires of Hell, oops, I mean she drives off to work......

So what do you think Grem?? Ummm, I'm think'in I'm in a 6/8 mood, I'm still recovering from the flu, so I'll go easy on the vocal chords in G minor, but in a lively tempo of say 134 BPM? I'll start with the piano, NO, geeze what am I think'in, I mean Addictive drums to establish the right 6/8 groove and noodle around on the Fender T Bucket acoustic bass. Them move on to either Stratocaster, Telecaster, or Les Paul maybe... Let see where the Muse takes me.. ?

 

Anyway, everybody has something to learn here, and everybody has something to contribute.. So carry on mates, it's all good..

[Steev]

@Jim Roseberry Pssssst, don't tell anybody but you can get an  Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter on Amazon for $29 FREE SHIPPING!

 

I have personally "Field Tested" this product EVERY DAY for about 2 YEARS NOW with my Universal Audio Apollo 8 Quad plugged in a Firewire port on my Mac.

For Windows Computers I highly recommend "SIIG" PCIe Firewire cards for robust and reliable performance.

[Base 57]

The Thunderbolt (2) to Firewire (800) is available for $34.89 at Staples. I've had one for several years. I used it to connect my Saffire Pro 24 to the integrated  Thunderbolt port in my Asus motherboard. It worked great in Win 8.1 as well as Win 10.

I have since acquired an Antelope Audio Orion 32+ which works fine with their new Thunderbolt for Windows driver. I currently choose to use the USB driver because it allows multiple apps while the Thunderbolt driver only allows one app at a time.

[Jim Roseberry]

Show the $29 Apple Firewire-to-Thunderbolt adapter that allows connecting a Thunderbolt audio interface to a Firewire controller... and explain how it works.

Explain how you can connect ANY Thunderbolt audio interface (on PC) to a Thunderbolt-2 controller and achieve PCIe level performance.

 

When you talk about your audio interface having 2ms record latency, you do realize that's meaningless, correct?

That 2ms of latency is never heard (unless you're monitoring via software... and then it's much larger figure due to round-trip latency).

The 2ms is compensated for upon playback. 

Some audio interfaces don't report their latency correctly; this is why all major DAW applications have a Record-Offset parameter.

 

Regarding Quantum vs. Apollo:

Quantum is by far the better low-latency performer.  

 

 

 

 

[Jim Roseberry]

3 minutes ago, Steev said:

@Jim Roseberry Pssssst, don't tell anybody but you can get an  Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter on Amazon for $29 FREE SHIPPING!

 

I have personally "Field Tested" this product EVERY DAY for about 2 YEARS NOW with my Universal Audio Apollo 8 Quad plugged in a Firewire port on my Mac.

For Windows Computers I highly recommend "SIIG" PCIe Firewire cards for robust and reliable performance.

?

Read the fine print, Steev.

Then come back and explain how it works.

[Jim Roseberry]

OK, I'll explain it for you.

 

That adapter allows you to connected a FIREWIRE device to a Thunderbolt controller.

I mentioned earlier that Thunderbolt is essentially external PCIe.

This is similar to using a PCIe Firewire controller.

 

Firewire does not (can not) provide access to the PCIe bus.

That's what would be necessary to adapt/connect Quantum (or any other Thunderbolt audio interface).

[Jim Roseberry]

If you do use a Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter (to connect a Firewire audio interface to a Thunderbolt controller), it will not achieve PCIe level performance.

It's exactly the same as running a PCIe Firewire controller.

[Steev]

13 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

12-sided Dude! Now we're talkin! I didn't know that Pricewatch was still around. Party like it's 1999.

Buying graphics cards for my trailing-edge systems has been my achilles heel. It's always about "will it play Halo?"

I, too am a Vegas baby, still light up my copy of 10 Pro from time to time, so if you say that this pup works a treat with Emily's Optiplex and Vegas and Cakewalk....this info is GOLD.

My main system is an Optiplex 7010. It has a Gen 2 Pci-e slot for a video card. I need to drive a monitor with a DVI port and a Display Port and another monitor with an HDMI port, so the card you showed me would work with my Display Port to HDMI adaptor.

I lean toward nVidia cards rather than AMD because of past troubles with Mixcraft and general lore in the DAW world. However, if you have empirical first-hand knowledge, that counts for a great deal with me.

Well they got some dirt cheap decent nVidea cards too if you prefer, bro. If you got PCIe v 2 I'd look for a FirePro V4900 that'll freak'in ROCK in Vegas Pro 10 and can support up to 3 monitors independently. 1 DVI and 2 Display Ports. It's kind of cool for Cakewalk having your tracks in from of you, mixer on the side, and GREAT for Vegas, it'll run more video plugins, FASTER, MORE BETTER, and you can even monitor full screen 1080p as crisp and sharp as a tack in a big screen smart TV. AMD FirePro V4900 ship with a sizable handful of adaptors included Displayport  to HDMI adapter need for that.

 I found a V4900 on pricewatch not long ago for $35, and I'm sure if your patient, it won't take long for one to spring back up. 

If you see anything nVidia that interests you more just make sure you Google it and or email the vendor first before buying to see if it's supported by Windows 10.

 AssendTech is very good and reliable about stuff like that. And they are the Kings at digging up brand new in the package obsolete shit!! LoL..

 Oh yeah, pricewatch has made me seem like a Bug's Bunny grade genius many times through the years for stuff like this..

[Steev]

1 hour ago, Base 57 said:

The Thunderbolt (2) to Firewire (800) is available for $34.89 at Staples. I've had one for several years. I used it to connect my Saffire Pro 24 to the integrated  Thunderbolt port in my Asus motherboard. It worked great in Win 8.1 as well as Win 10.

I have since acquired an Antelope Audio Orion 32+ which works fine with their new Thunderbolt for Windows driver. I currently choose to use the USB driver because it allows multiple apps while the Thunderbolt driver only allows one app at a time.

Cool that's $15 cheaper then the Siig card I bought from Sweetwater. I've never tried using more then one app at a time with the Apollo, but now you put it on my mind I am going to have to try on my Windows machine which I traditionally use the Focusrite Scarlett on for Cakewalk

 But I'm guessing no, because Pro Tools most likely want to hog the audio drivers and won't allow it on the Mac.

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Steev