[CLOSED] Cakewalk 2021.09 Early Access [Updated to build 137]

[Will.]

23 minutes ago, rocstudio said:

Sorry I missed your response and questions.  I agree with your assessment and it appears you did fix that problem. I will test the bounce to tracks on this Build 124 to see if it has any issues.

I just tested the bounce to tracks on the original project with all the tracks with Build 124. It took about 35 seconds for the progress bar to start and after the progress bar completed about 45 sec to complete. So it appears that this is a problem with that function even on this new build.

Thanks for thinking of that test!

Roc

 

How long is the clip? The entire project length? Are you bouncing to clip? To track or bounce to export? 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Will_Kaydo

[rocstudio]

4 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

How long is the clip? The entire project length? Are you bouncing to clip? To track or bounce to export? 

The clips are project length of 4 minutes 10 seconds. It appears that the bounce to clip works much better with build 124.  When ask to perform the test on bounce to track. That was done via export. I don't know how  else to do it. Sorry I was unclear. I selected all 25 tracks when performing the bounce to track through the export function and experienced the 35 seconds before progress bar about 45 sec to complete after the progress bar. I assumed that Noel's request was for me to test it that way. But if there is another way, I'm happy to try it.

Thanks again!

Roc

 

 

[Will.]

16 minutes ago, rocstudio said:

The clips are project length of 4 minutes 10 seconds.

There's your issue. It takes about 1min to render a song. This also depends on the specs of your system and all the processing that the project consist to be written is. 

Bounce to tracks works similar as external rendering/export/bounce  - except this is internally. 

So technically you don't have an issue. This is expected. @Noel Borthwick might be able to explain this better. 

 

16 minutes ago, rocstudio said:

I selected all 25 tracks when performing the bounce to track through the export function and experienced the 35 seconds before progress bar about 45 sec to complete after the progress bar

 

Again: As I said above. 

 

16 minutes ago, rocstudio said:

But if there is another way, I'm happy to try it.

 

I dont think there is. ☺

Edited September 12, 2021 by Will_Kaydo

[Andres Medina]

Regarding Tracks Through Mix + Sidechaining -

I've tested this and here are the results (build 124):

• If the sidechaining is placed on the tracks itself, the exported audio is correct: it follows the sidechain involved.
• However, If the sidechaining is placed on a bus, the exported audio does not follows the sidechain, but ignores it.

Not sure if this is expected or not. My understanding is that the Tracks Through Mix category should replicate what I hear, all the way through the signal path?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Noel Borthwick]

22 minutes ago, Andres Medina said:

Regarding Tracks Through Mix + Sidechaining -

I've tested this and here are the results (build 124):

• If the sidechaining is placed on the tracks itself, the exported audio is correct: it follows the sidechain involved.
• However, If the sidechaining is placed on a bus, the exported audio does not follows the sidechain, but ignores it.

Not sure if this is expected or not. My understanding is that the Tracks Through Mix category should replicate what I hear, all the way through the signal path?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

@Andres Medina you will have to give me a test project with exactly the routing as you set it up. I don’t know exactly what you mean by sidechaining placed on a bus. Did you mean you are sidechaining a plugin in a bus from a track send or are you sending from a bus to a side chain in a track?

The ultimate test is to solo the tracks you want one by one and check if you are hearing the sidechain. If you hear it then it should render in the mix. If you don’t hear it when soloing then we can troubleshoot that further.

[Noel Borthwick]

51 minutes ago, rocstudio said:

The clips are project length of 4 minutes 10 seconds. It appears that the bounce to clip works much better with build 124.  When ask to perform the test on bounce to track. That was done via export. I don't know how  else to do it. Sorry I was unclear. I selected all 25 tracks when performing the bounce to track through the export function and experienced the 35 seconds before progress bar about 45 sec to complete after the progress bar. I assumed that Noel's request was for me to test it that way. But if there is another way, I'm happy to try it.

Thanks again!

Roc

 

 

@rocstudio So the same issue occurs with bounce to track when bouncing the full project correct? That means the delay is happening when flushing effects tails with some of your plugins. Do you have some plugins that are generating audio even with silence or very long reverb or delay tails?

You can try changing this variable in the configuration file BounceFlushTailsMaxDurationSec

Go to Preferences |configuration file | Edit Config File
Search for BounceFlushTailsMaxDurationSec and set the value to 0 and save the file. 
Then close Cakewalk without changing anything else
Restart Cakewalk and retry the bounce. 

This should perform the bounce without doing any effects tail flushing. Let me know if this solves the issue.
 

 

[Andres Medina]

2 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@Andres Medina you will have to give me a test project with exactly the routing as you set it up. I don’t know exactly what you mean by sidechaining placed on a bus. Did you mean you are sidechaining a plugin in a bus from a track send or are you sending from a bus to a side chain in a track?

The ultimate test is to solo the tracks you want one by one and check if you are hearing the sidechain. If you hear it then it should render in the mix. If you don’t hear it when soloing then we can troubleshoot that further.

I am sidechaining from a bus to another bus.

It's common in ducking, when you want certain buses to drive changes in others (like decreasing the volume of the slave bus when the master bus is active, using a compressor) i.e Vocals lowering the volume of instrumental parts or whole instrumental mix buses.

When the routing of the sidechain is between tracks, the exported audio represents what you hear.

When it is between buses, it doesn't, it is not what you hear. Apparently the sidechaining on the buses are ignored in the export process.

I already PM you with the link to the test project.

[Noel Borthwick]

I see thanks. I'll investigate this and see what's involved. As I said earlier there may still be corner cases I've not explored so far.

[Andres Medina]

37 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

I see thanks. I'll investigate this and see what's involved. As I said earlier there may still be corner cases I've not explored so far.

Thanks! One more piece of info that just happened:

When exporting several tracks that are routed to a master bus that contains a plugin (i.e the Adaptive Limiter), the resulting audio is distorted after the export process, but not when hearing the mix.

Definitely something is going on in the interaction between tracks and buses in this scenario of "Tracks Through Entire Mix" source category.

[Noel Borthwick]

Please test this by soloing the tracks you are exporting since export goes through the same process.

[EnglandBross]

Hello everybody
I use my Behringer Mackie control and when I close the projects,  Cakewalk doesn't release the parameter/control leaving it stuck !!
is it possible reset all  mackie controls when leave a project ?

Thanks 
 

[Will.]

5 hours ago, Andres Medina said:

I am sidechaining from a bus to another bus.

It's common in ducking, when you want certain buses to drive changes in others (like decreasing the volume of the slave bus when the master bus is active, using a compressor) i.e Vocals lowering the volume of instrumental parts or whole instrumental mix buses.

When the routing of the sidechain is between tracks, the exported audio represents what you hear.

When it is between buses, it doesn't, it is not what you hear. Apparently the sidechaining on the buses are ignored in the export process.

I already PM you with the link to the test project.

Question: What is it that you sidechain from bus to bus? There a reason to why I'm asking. 

[rocstudio]

12 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@rocstudio So the same issue occurs with bounce to track when bouncing the full project correct? That means the delay is happening when flushing effects tails with some of your plugins. Do you have some plugins that are generating audio even with silence or very long reverb or delay tails?

You can try changing this variable in the configuration file BounceFlushTailsMaxDurationSec

Go to Preferences |configuration file | Edit Config File
Search for BounceFlushTailsMaxDurationSec and set the value to 0 and save the file. 
Then close Cakewalk without changing anything else
Restart Cakewalk and retry the bounce. 

This should perform the bounce without doing any effects tail flushing. Let me know if this solves the issue.
 

 

My BounceFlushTailsMaxDurationSec was set to 20. That must be a default because I have never updated that. I set that to zero and it works much better. Sorry but I have to ask... Do you happen to know why 20 is the default and when would I ever need a value other than zero? 

Thanks again for your help! This new version will save me a ton of time!

Roc

 

[msmcleod]

16 minutes ago, rocstudio said:

My BounceFlushTailsMaxDurationSec was set to 20. That must be a default because I have never updated that. I set that to zero and it works much better. Sorry but I have to ask... Do you happen to know why 20 is the default and when would I ever need a value other than zero? 

Thanks again for your help! This new version will save me a ton of time!

Roc

 

This is there to allow reverb tails to continue after the end of the audio. If you have reverbs on your track (and you're bouncing with effects), they'll get cut off if this is set to zero.  

20 secs is the cut-off point where it just gives up, but most of the time it'll cut off well before then unless you've got a really long reverb.

[rocstudio]

2 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

This is there to allow reverb tails to continue after the end of the audio. If you have reverbs on your track (and you're bouncing with effects), they'll get cut off if this is set to zero.  

20 secs is the cut-off point where it just gives up, but most of the time it'll cut off well before then unless you've got a really long reverb.

Thank you for explanation! I have, on occasion, had to have a long reverb tail at the end of a track, but I always use automation to kill it where needed. It's never been 20 second! ? 

Thanks again!

Roc

 

[Noel Borthwick]

40 minutes ago, rocstudio said:

I set that to zero and it works much better.

@rocstudio "much better" as in there is no pre and post delay for the bounce?
I suspect I know what is going on. Your UAD plugins are processing in realtime and slowing down the export. I've made a change that should solve that issue if so.
I'll send another build to try shortly. In the meantime you can verify this by bypassing all your UA plugins and exporting with BounceFlushTailsMaxDurationSec  set back to 20 msec which is the default.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

I don't know if anyone else has the same experience but this release seems more prone to falling over when duplicating a VSTi track ( inc note data )

 Sometimes it works , other times the whole thing freezes and stops then closes without warning  - I suppose it could be a plugin on my end, more testing required

[Andres Medina]

5 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Question: What is it that you sidechain from bus to bus? There a reason to why I'm asking. 

For the sake of simplicity, say I have two buses: 

1. Vocals Bus (containing all vocal tracks routed to this bus)

2. Instrumental parts Bus (containing all instrument tracks routed to this bus)

I have  a compressor (CA 2A) in Bus 2 that is fed by a send from Bus 1. When there are no vocal parts active, Bus 2 is at full volume. When there are active vocals, the sidechain makes the compressor to kick in and lower the volume on Bus 2.

 

[Andres Medina]

10 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Please test this by soloing the tracks you are exporting since export goes through the same process.

I did: it's the same. What you hear is fine, but the export process ignores the bus sidechaining.

[rocstudio]

51 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@rocstudio "much better" as in there is no pre and post delay for the bounce?
I suspect I know what is going on. Your UAD plugins are processing in realtime and slowing down the export. I've made a change that should solve that issue if so.
I'll send another build to try shortly. In the meantime you can verify this by bypassing all your UA plugins and exporting with BounceFlushTailsMaxDurationSec  set back to 20 msec which is the default.

Answering... "much better" as in there is no pre and post delay for the bounce? Correct!

Part 2... I set the BounceFlushTailsMaxDurationSec back to 20 second, restarted Cakewalk, and selected Bypass FX Rack via right clicking on all tracks and buses with effects. Not just UAD but any effects, regardless of manufacturer. Also, I did not bypass any Cakewalk ProChannel effects. The export tracks worked great!

Thank you!

Roc