2021.06 Feedback

[msmcleod]

18 hours ago, Olaf said:

CW just messed up all the track-synth associations, in the middle of a project.

Anybody know how to unmess them?

Can you reproduce the issue?  If so, can you send a copy of your project before the issue arises to @Jonathan Sasor along with instructions to reproduce?

[Olaf]

On 7/27/2021 at 1:23 AM, Andres Medina said:

Sorry! what a mess - 

I avoided inserting  Soft Synths as Simple Instruments tracks for that reason. I like to have access for midi and audio inputs+outputs as independent tracks, so there's room for reassigning  / rerouting as needed.

Have you tried to inserting your VST's that way? each midi and audio tracks are independent, and easily configurable, and accesible via the console view as well.

My troubles with Omnisphere assignments were solved by re-assigning  the inputs of the audio tracks directly on each audio track. Midi tracks were not affected, nor audio outs. Lost half an hour but it was done!

Check  images attached.

I agree with you, it's easier in terms of assignments and I/Os, switches, sound auditions, inserting and changing synths, and so on. The problem is you also get a lot of tracks for every instrument, and it gets messy to navigate and instantly tell which is which, and tiresome to follow. Intuitive is being able to do without thinking, on reflex or common sense assessments - for instance, if you were new to it, etc. That's why I suggested the idea above, which gets the best of both aspects, and is more logical, in principle.

[Olaf]

13 hours ago, msmcleod said:

Can you reproduce the issue?  If so, can you send a copy of your project before the issue arises to @Jonathan Sasor along with instructions to reproduce?

I've attached the link here.

https://we.tl/t-O3sckikbzg

You will need Addictive Keys (Electric Grand) on Piano, T-FM on Orga, AAS Player on Synth and Orgi Biserică (Church organs), SSD 5 Free for the furthermost left drums, and Tony Coleman Drums 16 Out, to insert yourself - all as instrument tracks, except for SSD, which has individually routed outs.

To reproduce:

Delete all TCD tracks, including the group Aux, as those were added subsequently. In the resulting layout, delete the Piano track, then insert TCD 16 Out from the right click Insert Instrument menu command. Choose route to master. Then bulk undo both of them from undo history.

Last night I made several moves after that, which got bulk undone in the process - some observations there, as well - but they were not related to synth inserts, so they shouldn't matter in this individual matter.

Another thing I have mentioned previously, and was never addressed, was the synth names are displayed wrong, in all projects, on hovering the mouse pointer over them, in the rack - IF the rack window is smaller than the area of the racked synths AND you scroll down. I don't know if the track switch, in this case, was made in accordance with possible wrong names displayed that way, but it would, no doubt, be interesting to check.

Hopefully you can reproduce it.

If we're on the topic, the order of the Rack, Browser and Help windows, in the right side dock, never gets saved with the project.

Neither does the Show/Hide Arranger Track state in the Track View. And neither do the Meter Options, in the Track View. Also, NastyDLA doesn't save its Wet Only state, which I thought was because of the plugin, only I've noticed it doesn't happen in Harrison Mixbus.

The order of some One Knobs - or the on/off state, I don't remember - doesn't get saved in the PC strip.

So that's five more things that could get fixed for the next update.

And on the meter options topic - the intricate menu, with a million individual options, to click on separately, is criminal. How about one single menu option - "Meter Options" - which open a dialog window with bullet checks for all the options, so you could set them all at once, in a single place, instead of clicking about 20 times, with three level menu branching for each, to set them all, like now? That would be a significant simplification requiring no user sacrifice/adaptation.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Olaf

[Jonathan Sasor]

Hi Olaf,

Unfortunately we don't have ready access to many of the plugins in your project currently, so we're unable to get a repro as described currently, but we're still investigating. 

16 hours ago, Olaf said:

If we're on the topic, the order of the Rack, Browser and Help windows, in the right side dock, never gets saved with the project.

This issue is already logged on our end.

16 hours ago, Olaf said:

Neither does the Show/Hide Arranger Track state in the Track View. And neither do the Meter Options, in the Track View.

Are you using a Workspace? I'm unable to reproduce this normally, but your description sounds like it may be reapplying a workspace on project load which would change those types of things in the UI.

16 hours ago, Olaf said:

Also, NastyDLA doesn't save its Wet Only state, which I thought was because of the plugin, only I've noticed it doesn't happen in Harrison Mixbus.

Is there a version of this plugin that's still available to test? It appears to be removed from their website. Also just because a plugin behaves one way in a particular DAW does not mean that the bug is not in the plugin. The things that @Noel Borthwick has seen... 

16 hours ago, Olaf said:

The order of some One Knobs - or the on/off state, I don't remember - doesn't get saved in the PC strip.

If you can provide details on this we'll investigate. I haven't heard of other reports of this.

16 hours ago, Olaf said:

And on the meter options topic - the intricate menu, with a million individual options, to click on separately, is criminal. How about one single menu option - "Meter Options" - which open a dialog window with bullet checks for all the options, so you could set them all at once, in a single place, instead of clicking about 20 times, with three level menu branching for each, to set them all, like now? That would be a significant simplification requiring no user sacrifice/adaptation.

Are you changing the metering options that frequently? It might be easier to save a template with these configured as desired so you don't need to access the menu options as often. The issue with doing a redesign to implement a separate options page for this is it diverts resources from other features/fixes.  We'll take it under consideration. 

[Olaf]

21 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

This issue is already logged on our end.

Great to hear. It's been buggingsome (new word, probably).

21 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

Are you using a Workspace? I'm unable to reproduce this normally, but your description sounds like it may be reapplying a workspace on project load which would change those types of things in the UI.

I am using a workspace, yes. From what I gather workspaces don't store those settings, anyway - it'd be nice if they did, as they are part of the overall layout - so it shouldn't matter, should it? But the workspace was created with those meter settings already applied, just to be safe, so even if they did, they should be there.

21 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

Is there a version of this plugin that's still available to test? It appears to be removed from their website. Also just because a plugin behaves one way in a particular DAW does not mean that the bug is not in the plugin. The things that @Noel Borthwick has seen... 

Yeah, and it's actually free. Variety of Sound page, they've just released the 64 bit version, the 32 bit had the same problem.

It looks like it's the plugin, though. I've also tried in Reason, for 2 out of 3, and it's got the same problem. So the setting doesn't get stored in CW and Reason, but it gets stored in Harrison. Weird. interesting to see what the difference is with them. I've also reported the issue to VoS. Really cool delay, weird looking, but cool. One of my go tos, and I've got a bunch of them.

21 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

If you can provide details on this we'll investigate. I haven't heard of other reports of this.

I haven't used the PC in a while, cause now I'm a huge CLA Mixhub fan (which also has a problem, it doesn't store intermediate compressor release settings between some fixed resolution points, and it always reverts to the closest one of those on open, which I also need to redo on every open and it bugs the s*** out of me - logged a report with them, most of what I've reported they've fixed, but this one still lingers), so I don't remember exactly, it was either the order or the on/off state of some modules that I had to redo every time I opened a project.

21 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

Are you changing the metering options that frequently? It might be easier to save a template with these configured as desired so you don't need to access the menu options as often. The issue with doing a redesign to implement a separate options page for this is it diverts resources from other features/fixes.  We'll take it under consideration. 

No, I don't change them at all, that's the thing - I mean, not willingly. It's a set it and forget it kind of thing, only the "set it" part doesn't work. In the meantime, I have given up even setting them altogether, cause it takes too long to do - hence the menu issue - and it reverts back to the old resolution the next time.

I don't know how much an all-in-one settings window would take to program, but it would be a big simplification for adjusting that setting.

I appreciate the detailed answer.

 

[David Baay]

8 minutes ago, Olaf said:

No, I don't change [meter settings] at all, that's the thing - I mean, not willingly. It's a set it and forget it kind of thing, only the "set it" part doesn't work. In the meantime, I have given up even setting them altogether, cause it takes too long to do - hence the menu issue - and it reverts back to the old resolution the next time.

The only issue I ever noted with meter setting persistence was that Playback meters would not recall the RMS+Peak mode, and would revert to Peak only (IIRC - I have not checked this one after seeing it persist for many years in SONAR). And the settings should save with project templates, so re-save your default and/or most frequently used templates with the desired settings, and that should take care of it.

[Noel Borthwick]

2021.06 Update 2 has been released.

[Will.]

Found a bug.

bug was found in the 2021.06.053 build.

it was carried over to the 057build too.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Will_Kaydo

[User 905133]

In-app update with an open project and using Download Now -> Show Folder -> updating from the  shown folder was uneventful (went smoothly) while pretending this was my first time updating from within the app.

Note: The following is from an expected VSTi crash.

However, either there is no "No" option in the crash dialog, or the dialog needs a way to scroll down to see it.

On second thought, maybe the "Preview" button is really the "No" button since pressing it closed the crash dialog and Cakewalk.

UPDATE: Not sure why I got the above in the crash dialog the first time, but it was corrected on a second crash:

Edited July 30, 2021 by User 905133
(3) to add an update; (2) to add "On second thought . . . " ; (1) to add image

[Noel Borthwick]

1 hour ago, User 905133 said:

UPDATE: Not sure why I got the above in the crash dialog the first time, but it was corrected on a second crash:

 

That is strange. apparently the resource strings got confused and displayed the wrong text. Let me know if that recurs.

[User 905133]

1 minute ago, Noel Borthwick said:

That is strange. apparently the resource strings got confused and displayed the wrong text. Let me know if that recurs.

Thanks for the reply.  It actually happened again, several times.  It is a legacy VSTi (E-Mu's Emulator X, version 3). It used to get successfully inserted most of the time (90%) and worked flawlessly each time it was successfully inserted.  Approx. 10% of the time I would get a notification that it needed to be reactivated from the standalone version, but I would usually just reboot Cakewalk, insert it again, and it would work (that is, without re-activating it).

So, I will try a few more things--running the standalone version, reinstalling it, checking vstscan.log for possible issues, etc. 

[Patrick Wichrowski]

First time in my Windows 7 installation I could use the Bandlab integration. This "update 2" really updated some details for me 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Patrick Wichrowski

[OutrageProductions]

OK, just installed the 2021.06 (Build 053) update, and WORKSPACES STILL ignore the visibility toggle of the Browser when saved. Can you guys see if this can be dealt with anytime soon?
Example: in Track View, I close the Inspector (I) and the Browser (B) and save workspace. Next time I choose that workspace, the Inspector is hidden at the left, the Browser still shows up on the right. I would like to see the Browser hidden when I toggle it to hide in a workspace, Please!

It seems to hide in ScreenSets just fine, but I want something that is Application universal, not just session specific.

[EDIT]
Actually just tested it on a couple of other sessions, and on my other computer, and it will not hide the Browser in SCREENSETS either.
Issue has been in the application since the inclusion of WorkSpaces!

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by OutrageProductions

[Czeslaw]

On 7/28/2021 at 4:54 AM, Olaf said:

NastyDLA doesn't save its Wet Only state, which I thought was because of the plugin, only I've noticed it doesn't happen in Harrison Mixbus.

I have vst3 saves this parameter.

I have vst2 saves this parameter if it is automated.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Czeslaw

[User 905133]

8 hours ago, OutrageProductions said:

Example: in Track View, I close the Inspector (I) and the Browser (B) and save workspace. Next time I choose that workspace, the Inspector is hidden at the left, the Browser still shows up on the right. I would like to see the Browser hidden when I toggle it to hide in a workspace, Please!

I saw your post and wondered what you meant by hidden--unavailable to Cakewalk, collapsed, covered up by something else (such as other tabs in the MultiDock), etc.

When I was teaching myself how to use Workspaces, I created a minimalist Workspace--one with the least number of views possible.  From what I can see, the Browser functionality is required.

"No Views" Workspace:       Collapsed Browser:     

So, if you want Cakewalk to have no Browser functionality, I am not sure you can make that happen.

But I'm wondering if by hidden, you mean collapsed.

However, if you mean totally not visible when you switch to a Workspace, I wonder how you tried to hide the Browser via a Workspace.  For what its worth, I have a Workspace without even a collapsed Browser showing.  It seems I docked the Browser in the MultiDock and then Xed the Browser tab before creating the Workspace.

That Workspace was a full screen Console View on a single monitor, but to verify the method works, I took that Workspace, put the Console View at the top and the Track View at the bottom. Then I hit B to toggle the Browser's visibility, docked it in the MultiDock, Xed it out, and then created a new Workspace and saved it with the name "No Browser."

There might be other methods, too.

Caveat: sometimes things work on my PC that others can't do (and vice versa), but maybe this method will give you what you want--a Workspace such that when you select it, it doesn't even have a collapsed Browser.  FWIW, I had everything in the "Load from Workspace" section checked, but it should also work if I have Theme unchecked.

 

[Will.]

10 hours ago, OutrageProductions said:

OK, just installed the 2021.06 (Build 053) update, and WORKSPACES STILL ignore the visibility toggle of the Browser when saved. Can you guys see if this can be dealt with anytime soon?
Example: in Track View, I close the Inspector (I) and the Browser (B) and save workspace. Next time I choose that workspace, the Inspector is hidden at the left, the Browser still shows up on the right. I would like to see the Browser hidden when I toggle it to hide in a workspace, Please!

It seems to hide in ScreenSets just fine, but I want something that is Application universal, not just session specific.

[EDIT]
Actually just tested it on a couple of other sessions, and on my other computer, and it will not hide the Browser in SCREENSETS either.
Issue has been in the application since the inclusion of WorkSpaces!

 

You have to save the worksapce with the | a | custom template. 

You first save the workspace and then the Template. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Will_Kaydo
Instructions.

[Olaf]

11 hours ago, Czeslaw said:

I have vst3 saves this parameter.

I have vst2 saves this parameter if it is automated.

In Cakewalk? That's even weirder. I use the vst3, too, it never saves that.

I've never tried automating it - but I guess that's not a question of saving it, but of automatically re-reading the setting on playback.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Olaf

[Olaf]

On 7/29/2021 at 5:45 PM, David Baay said:

The only issue I ever noted with meter setting persistence was that Playback meters would not recall the RMS+Peak mode, and would revert to Peak only (IIRC - I have not checked this one after seeing it persist for many years in SONAR). And the settings should save with project templates, so re-save your default and/or most frequently used templates with the desired settings, and that should take care of it.

I don't use templates, whenever I have a new project, just think of the closest project in terms of sound and instrument layout, and open that one, delete all clips, save as new. There you go - already mixed ?. Obviously I do the changes in terms of sounds - synths, amps, reverbs, EQ, compression, FX tones and atmospheres - pretty much everything - afterwards, but it already has all the plugins in place, and the tracks already setup.

The options are not saved in Workspaces, though, or in the project info.

[OutrageProductions]

7 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

You have to save the worksapce with the | a | custom template. 

You first save the workspace and then the Template. 

More Expansion on subject:
I run a 3 monitor setup. MOST of the time, it is only two monitors with the track view on mon1 and PRV on mon2 (both full screen) when composing. I only use minor editing windows in the multidock like Markers, Event Editor. I have built custom Workspace layouts (name PRV Edit for ex.) that have Inspector docked left and Browser docked right and visible on the two screens. I have also modified and then saved the Workspace (name PRV Edit II for ex.) with Inspector and Browser collapsed. When switching to this latter Workspace (or any that has the Browser collapsed) the Workspace always opens with the Browser visible, not collapsed, although the Inspector WILL be collapsed (and the saved visable status of the Multidock as it was created). 
I have also set up a large session Workspace (custom) for three monitors with Trackview (mon1), PRV (full scrn mon2), and Console (full scrn mon3) which is where I would really like to have the Inspector and Browser collapsed on mon1 and all tracks fit to screen (horiz & vert) but the Browser refuses to comply with the saved collapse mode (because at this point I am done with adding media and instruments, and entering mix to video mode).

I like Workspaces better than ScreenSets because they are universal to any session.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. 

 

EDIT: !!!
I'm going to experiment with this more later, but I think that if the HELP module is stacked (even if it is collapsed) in the Browser, the Browser will not save in "Collapsed" mode not matter what. If the Help module is set to NOT be available via "Manage Workspaces", then (it seems so far) to allow the collapsed condition of the Browser to be written into a Workspace. More testing to follow.

EDIT 2!!! CONFIRMED! in the <Manage Workspaces> Workspace Manager dialog, if I remove the tick from the tree view of <Views/Help Module> and resave the Workspace, the Browser will pay attention to 'visible/collapsed' condition in the Workspace.
Just set up Track View with Inspector & Browser collapsed on mon1, PRV on mon2, Console on Mon3, and Video playback with Big Time on mon4 and everything comes back on new project open, or on existing mixing/spotting project session. Eggcellent!

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by OutrageProductions
Discovery of hidden quirk

[JMCurtis]

I have a suggestion that may help in differentiating plugin selections when selecting a plugin to load. Right now ts very hard to distinguish which is the current group of plugins since the background color is the same for both list and plugin group as well [see pic 1].  It would be easier to tell what is what if there was a slight difference in the color of the groups of plugins from a vendor [see pic 2].

I'm not sure if this was the right place to post, but wanted to bring this to the devs attention.

Thanks for the time, and great program updates guys!