2021.06 Feedback

[Glenn Stanton]

i would have thought so, but the 053 build installed updated redistributables (as far as i can tell) whereas 050 didn't have this issue. no worries though the Waves repair after installing 053 took care of it. 

[Steev]

 

I had recently installed CbB 2106.053 on my skinny 'lil HP Folio 9470m Intel i5 gen 3 with only bare minimum 4 gigs of RAM laptop (crash test dummy) computer running an up to date Windows 10 Pro using Windows WDDM drivers with no 3rd party VST plugins and using only a wireless mouse as an add on controller I'm having no issues other then not knowing how to get or where the license key to the included copy of Melodyne is(?) That's not a big deal though, I was just curious what the limitations free version of Melodyne 5 can do. I already have Melodyne 5 Editor version on my workstation, and that costs as much as SONAR Platinum did I know the good peeps at Celemony aren't giving THAT away.?

 Anyway, CbB is very snappy with low enough latency to work with and performing much better and a lot more powerful then I would have ever thought it would on a quad core CPU without ASIO drivers? Using CbB's new import feature I was able to select and download a 9 track Bandlab project over my Netgear Nighthawk 5G WiFi network and was ready to mix in about 5 minutes. OK Nighthawk routers are FAST, but that the only high performance device we're talking about here. The poor old HP laptop doesn't even have an SSD installed, and CbB's performance really surprised me MUCH better & smoother then Presonus Studio ONE ever did??. 

But on my "Big Boy" AMD 8 core workstation with super low Focusrite ASIO latency with all the bells & whistles, as in the one where I actually WORK on serious music and video projects with DEADLINES and all,  it seems to be getting very unstable ever since trying out the new CbB and Bandlab integration features.? And as much fun as I have on Bandlab, Bandlab doesn't pay very well, not that I'm complaining. I'm more like eternally grateful for not only keeping my favorite DAW alive, but CbB & Bandlab are SHOCKINGLY the closest thing we can get to a Pro Tools & AVID Cloud Storage account, and believe me, that is about 180° out of phase from being FREE as you can get.  And I'm not just comparing Cakewalk performance to the VERY expensive native Pro Tools 12 on a Mac ( I have both & CbB beats that to death), I'm comparing CbB's performance to BONE CHRUSHING expensive Pro Tools "HD" with about roughly 10x the cost of software & Apple hardware of a compatible Windows system!

And still, have issues just like we are having at present with CbB/Bandlab integration rear their ugly heads.

But I'm not jumping ship on either, and if I can convey the problems by explaining what I can see might be symptoms I'm having with CbB and it helps the that staff and CbB hopefully figure out nail the current problems, good, if not, well then have a good laugh, at least I tried. ☮

Bandlab is also scanning & recognizing MIDI controller devices on my computer that I use all the time to change patching and routing as part of my routine workflow that have lots to do with CbB and very little to do with Bandlab. And that's pretty scary because it automatic and there is no way to stop it from happening and turn it OFF or configure it to only recognize MIDI controllers useful to Bandlab.

I can't help to wonder if Bandlab is sending MIDI messages to try to communicate with 2 potentially dangerous MIDI controllers all at once to Cakewalk and a multi-channel audio interface when it will only receive audio signals from the 1st 2 channels and can't sync to the Focusrite to test and adjust for recording latency like it does with standard native Windows drivers.

My Behringer X-Touch is configured for Mackie MCU protocol as is configured to full control over audio tracks in Cakewalk and only the transport control section has limited but improper function in Mix Editor which doesn't seem support MCU, nor GM (general MIDI) at least not obviously.

 My Novation Impulse 61 is mapped to Cakewalk thru straight MIDI or Automap to control all MIDI channels, synths, and plugins along side of my X-Touch, and can be manually mapped to to control Bandlab's volume and pan controls and play Bandlab's MIDI instruments which works kinda well even though Mix Editor can't sync or adjust for recording latency due to the Focusrite's super low latency measures around 20-25 ms round trip from Bandlab instruments with low off peak local internet traffic.

Simply by opening Bandlab Mix Editor with CbB running, Mix Editor disconnects & zeros out and resets the X-Touch DAW controller and SEEMINLY tries to connect to it, but the X-Touch is set up to only respond to MCU protocol messages and ignores everything else.

But CbB, Novation Impulse 61 MIDI keyboard controller, and AUTOMAP software doesn't ignore MIDI messages & AUTOMAP try's to communicate & configure with everything MIDI and plugins listed in Windows x32 and x64 "Program Files" including Windows and Edge browser plugins, and probably any plugin that Bandlab GUI includes or uses, if any, and that's why I never select the it's MIDI port to use it until MIDI 2.0 devices are further developed & stable. But Mix Editor sees it and sees PropellerHead, Reason 11 Studio's new "Rack Extension" now runs as a VST 3 plugin in Cakewalk as a host & might try, and possibly AUTOMAP routing and patching Cakewalk's mixer thru Reason's SSL 4000 console mixer, and loop BACK AGAIN? ??

And the fact that Mix Editor recognizes & lists Novation's powerful & intelligent MIDI port "Automap" as a simple "Microsoft" device is not only troubling, it's kind of nerve wracking when it comes to thinking about tight integration between a DAW installed on my computer and a cloud based DAW on Bandlab's website at the same time I'm developing unusual patching config changes that I didn't make with CbB.

This is a screen shot of what Bandlab Mix Editor scans and opens for every time I open it. Only the "Impulse" which is a straight in USB MIDI port is useful. If I could shut the rest down I WOULD and maybe I wouldn't have any more routing problems in CbB?

 I donno. But I do know that I never had routing problems until I tried the new CbB Import/Export feature. Which is nice and very cool and all, but not for me.

[TheSteven]

Don't know if this has been reported or not...

When using Process > Slide neither Arranger nor Track Automation is slid.

In 27.06.0.053 open project, hit Ctrl_A to select all tracks open Process / Slide...
 

Edited July 19, 2021 by TheSteven

[TheSteven]

Note on the above post - the automation tracks are modifying plugin parameters of FX in the track view FX  bin such as iZotope.

[Noel Borthwick]

On 7/17/2021 at 3:41 PM, Hillmy said:

OK. Uploading now and will PM you the link when it's done.

@Hillmy
Thanks for the dump file - I investigated it. It happens because the plugin doesn't complete its processing while you are changing presets and because cakewalk waits for it to finish processing it hangs. Its actually faulty multithreading on the plugin's part.

However the actual hang happens due to some thread safety changes we made for 06. I am fortunately able to work around the problem and have implemented a fix.
You should be able to prevent the issue for now by changing presets only when the engine is off.  (turn off the engine button on the transport when not playing) 

[TheSteven]

Rebooted tried Process / Slide again with only Cakewalk stuff ie. a MIDI track and & Audio track.

only automation track that slides in this example is the one directly linked to audio clip - Volume.

Project (unslide) is attached.

27.06.0.053 Process - Slide.cwb

[Hillmy]

3 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@Hillmy
Thanks for the dump file - I investigated it. It happens because the plugin doesn't complete its processing while you are changing presets and because cakewalk waits for it to finish processing it hangs. Its actually faulty multithreading on the plugin's part.

However the actual hang happens due to some thread safety changes we made for 06. I am fortunately able to work around the problem and have implemented a fix.
You should be able to prevent the issue for now by changing presets only when the engine is off.  (turn off the engine button on the transport when not playing) 

Awesome! Thanks for investigating and for the workaround. No hang or crash happens if I turn the audio engine off before changing presets. That's something I never thought of!

Looking forward to the fix.

[Noel Borthwick]

You may want to contact the plugin vendor to fix their issue as well.

[Will.]

Cakewalk is having problem reading VST2 32bit plugins. It causes pops and clicks in all them.

At first I thought it was a  Bitbridge and Jbridge issue. Installed those - same problem. 

Are we fading those out? 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Will_Kaydo

[Sidney Earl Goodroe]

Loading VSTs is acting strange. It takes a while now after the latest update.  The spinning wheel icon now comes up on the screen and it acts like Cake is looking for the plugin!! It does load but nowhere near as quickly. Is anyone else having this behavior?

[Xoo]

17 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Cakewalk is having problem reading VST2 plugins. It causes pops and clicks in all them.

At first I thought it was a  Bitbridge and Jbridge issue. Installed those - same problem. 

Are we fading those out? 

32 bit ones you mean?  Synths or effects or both?  I can check a handful later but I've not seen (heard!) anything obvious.

[Will.]

26 minutes ago, Kevin Perry said:

32 bit ones you mean?  Synths or effects or both?  I can check a handful later but I've not seen (heard!) anything obvious.

Yeah! I need to fix that - apologies. 

Yes, VST 2 32bit. Both Effects and Synths. 

Never had this problem with previous versions. I had also re-installed Cakewalk just now. Same issue. It's only with the 32bit plugins. 

I've first noticed this with the TT-Dynamic Meter 2 days ago and thought it was a CPU load issue as that was a have plugin project. Which was weird now that I think about it. Without it it didn't have pops and clicks. 

Right now, I literally have it on the master track of 3 tracks of a 4 Bar/Measure Drum loop im creating for a Sample Pack to sort out the Gain Staging, before processing them - and same thing happen. I had also tried it with a favourite MS Controller plugin and the same happens. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Will_Kaydo

[Xoo]

I don't have those but can try with some I do.

[Noel Borthwick]

3 hours ago, Sidney Earl Goodroe said:

Loading VSTs is acting strange. It takes a while now after the latest update.  The spinning wheel icon now comes up on the screen and it acts like Cake is looking for the plugin!! It does load but nowhere near as quickly. Is anyone else having this behavior?

@Sidney Earl GoodroeMost likely something independent on your system changed. What was the previous version of CbB you were running - have you tried rolling back to see if its actually related to this release? What plugins specifically are taking longer to load. 

[Noel Borthwick]

2 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Yeah! I need to fix that - apologies. 

Yes, VST 2 32bit. Both Effects and Synths. 

Never had this problem with previous versions. I had also re-installed Cakewalk just now. Same issue. It's only with the 32bit plugins. 

I've first noticed this with the TT-Dynamic Meter 2 days ago and thought it was a CPU load issue as that was a have plugin project. Which was weird now that I think about it. Without it it didn't have pops and clicks. 

Right now, I literally have it on the master track of 3 tracks of a 4 Bar/Measure Drum loop im creating for a Sample Pack to sort out the Gain Staging, before processing them - and same thing happen. I had also tried it with a favourite MS Controller plugin and the same happens. 

Which previous version specifically were you running earlier? Have you tried a rollback to verify that its related?

[Xoo]

I've tried a few (256 sample buffer FWIW) with no obvious clicks or other glitches (that's using the built-in BitBridge).  So not repeatable here, I'm afraid.

[Noel Borthwick]

On 7/18/2021 at 4:49 PM, Steev said:

 

I had recently installed CbB 2106.053 on my skinny 'lil HP Folio 9470m Intel i5 gen 3 with only bare minimum 4 gigs of RAM laptop (crash test dummy) computer running an up to date Windows 10 Pro using Windows WDDM drivers with no 3rd party VST plugins and using only a wireless mouse as an add on controller I'm having no issues other then not knowing how to get or where the license key to the included copy of Melodyne is(?) That's not a big deal though, I was just curious what the limitations free version of Melodyne 5 can do. I already have Melodyne 5 Editor version on my workstation, and that costs as much as SONAR Platinum did I know the good peeps at Celemony aren't giving THAT away.?

 Anyway, CbB is very snappy with low enough latency to work with and performing much better and a lot more powerful then I would have ever thought it would on a quad core CPU without ASIO drivers? Using CbB's new import feature I was able to select and download a 9 track Bandlab project over my Netgear Nighthawk 5G WiFi network and was ready to mix in about 5 minutes. OK Nighthawk routers are FAST, but that the only high performance device we're talking about here. The poor old HP laptop doesn't even have an SSD installed, and CbB's performance really surprised me MUCH better & smoother then Presonus Studio ONE ever did??. 

But on my "Big Boy" AMD 8 core workstation with super low Focusrite ASIO latency with all the bells & whistles, as in the one where I actually WORK on serious music and video projects with DEADLINES and all,  it seems to be getting very unstable ever since trying out the new CbB and Bandlab integration features.? And as much fun as I have on Bandlab, Bandlab doesn't pay very well, not that I'm complaining. I'm more like eternally grateful for not only keeping my favorite DAW alive, but CbB & Bandlab are SHOCKINGLY the closest thing we can get to a Pro Tools & AVID Cloud Storage account, and believe me, that is about 180° out of phase from being FREE as you can get.  And I'm not just comparing Cakewalk performance to the VERY expensive native Pro Tools 12 on a Mac ( I have both & CbB beats that to death), I'm comparing CbB's performance to BONE CHRUSHING expensive Pro Tools "HD" with about roughly 10x the cost of software & Apple hardware of a compatible Windows system!

And still, have issues just like we are having at present with CbB/Bandlab integration rear their ugly heads.

But I'm not jumping ship on either, and if I can convey the problems by explaining what I can see might be symptoms I'm having with CbB and it helps the that staff and CbB hopefully figure out nail the current problems, good, if not, well then have a good laugh, at least I tried. ☮

Bandlab is also scanning & recognizing MIDI controller devices on my computer that I use all the time to change patching and routing as part of my routine workflow that have lots to do with CbB and very little to do with Bandlab. And that's pretty scary because it automatic and there is no way to stop it from happening and turn it OFF or configure it to only recognize MIDI controllers useful to Bandlab.

I can't help to wonder if Bandlab is sending MIDI messages to try to communicate with 2 potentially dangerous MIDI controllers all at once to Cakewalk and a multi-channel audio interface when it will only receive audio signals from the 1st 2 channels and can't sync to the Focusrite to test and adjust for recording latency like it does with standard native Windows drivers.

My Behringer X-Touch is configured for Mackie MCU protocol as is configured to full control over audio tracks in Cakewalk and only the transport control section has limited but improper function in Mix Editor which doesn't seem support MCU, nor GM (general MIDI) at least not obviously.

 My Novation Impulse 61 is mapped to Cakewalk thru straight MIDI or Automap to control all MIDI channels, synths, and plugins along side of my X-Touch, and can be manually mapped to to control Bandlab's volume and pan controls and play Bandlab's MIDI instruments which works kinda well even though Mix Editor can't sync or adjust for recording latency due to the Focusrite's super low latency measures around 20-25 ms round trip from Bandlab instruments with low off peak local internet traffic.

Simply by opening Bandlab Mix Editor with CbB running, Mix Editor disconnects & zeros out and resets the X-Touch DAW controller and SEEMINLY tries to connect to it, but the X-Touch is set up to only respond to MCU protocol messages and ignores everything else.

But CbB, Novation Impulse 61 MIDI keyboard controller, and AUTOMAP software doesn't ignore MIDI messages & AUTOMAP try's to communicate & configure with everything MIDI and plugins listed in Windows x32 and x64 "Program Files" including Windows and Edge browser plugins, and probably any plugin that Bandlab GUI includes or uses, if any, and that's why I never select the it's MIDI port to use it until MIDI 2.0 devices are further developed & stable. But Mix Editor sees it and sees PropellerHead, Reason 11 Studio's new "Rack Extension" now runs as a VST 3 plugin in Cakewalk as a host & might try, and possibly AUTOMAP routing and patching Cakewalk's mixer thru Reason's SSL 4000 console mixer, and loop BACK AGAIN? ??

And the fact that Mix Editor recognizes & lists Novation's powerful & intelligent MIDI port "Automap" as a simple "Microsoft" device is not only troubling, it's kind of nerve wracking when it comes to thinking about tight integration between a DAW installed on my computer and a cloud based DAW on Bandlab's website at the same time I'm developing unusual patching config changes that I didn't make with CbB.

This is a screen shot of what Bandlab Mix Editor scans and opens for every time I open it. Only the "Impulse" which is a straight in USB MIDI port is useful. If I could shut the rest down I WOULD and maybe I wouldn't have any more routing problems in CbB?

 I donno. But I do know that I never had routing problems until I tried the new CbB Import/Export feature. Which is nice and very cool and all, but not for me.

 

Its not clear if you are asking about BandLab issues or CbB. We can't assist with problems related to the BandLab Mix editor since there is a different team managing that. Contact support to report issues with BandLab. Also there is no interaction between the bandlab software and Cbb so one cannot affect the other.

[Noel Borthwick]

On 7/18/2021 at 4:19 PM, Glenn Stanton said:

i would have thought so, but the 053 build installed updated redistributables (as far as i can tell) whereas 050 didn't have this issue. no worries though the Waves repair after installing 053 took care of it. 

@Glenn StantonThe 053 installer installs the same redistributables that the 04 release did. We did not update them because there was a known Microsoft installer problem that I posted about here. My best guess is that you directly downloaded the new Microsoft redist (or waves had you download that) and that messed up your install.

[Will.]

1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Which previous version specifically were you running earlier? Have you tried a rollback to verify that its related?

I was running the 2021.04 before the 2021.06 EA came out, but only noticing this 2days ago. I was using the dbMeter5 prior to switching meters - that's why I didn't notice until I switched to TT-Dynamic Meter. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Will_Kaydo

[Will.]

Alright. I think I solved this. I was trying to make a video with audio and my focusrite asio drivers didn't allow me to record the screen with Audio. So I changed to WASAPI EXCLUSIVE and guess what? All the pops and clicks gone. ? Did a reinstall of my drivers and things seem to be working good. I'm still investigating the synths.