SteveStrummerUK Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) Are there any 'rules' or guidelines to changing key in a song? Why does it always seem to sound so good? For example, in John Lennon's Woman - the key change is perfect. Edited February 12, 2021 by SteveStrummerUK Remove and replace brainfart :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibbles Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, SteveStrummerUK said: For example, in John Lennon's Imagine - the key change is perfect. Now I've got that bloody awful Gal Gadot video stuck in my head. Edited February 12, 2021 by Wibbles My full stops ran away with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 There are no rules. Remember, “music theory” is the way those of us in “awe” explain what those that amaze us are doing. t 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane_B. Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 LOL! You've been following me around on other forums haven't you Steve? I recently bought BiaB on hard drive because my internet connection was so slow and unreliable I couldn't download it. It was freaking expensive! 3 weeks later my internet provider went to a new 5G type network and upped it from 3Mb Download/1.5Mb Upload to 30Mb/20Mb at no extra cost . . . I was happy and pissed all at the same time. My very first tune in BiaB I tried to do a simple Christmas song. Get my feet wet with something I was familiar with. Starting on the last verse it changes key. The whole song is just in straight chords, no 7th's, 9th's, nothing fancy. I just wanted a simple basic straight open chord strumming with a simple drum/bass arrangement. Nope. Can't do it. After the key change BiaB adds in 7th's turning the song in to some warped sounding blues tune. Imagine the song Silver Bells done in a blues style. That's what it sounded like. I got attacked by the fanboy's when I asked how to make it stop doing that. Apparently that's how it's supposed to be. If you change key in a song 'technically' you are supposed to follow the original key and add in 7th's when the key changes. That was their excuse. BiaB has settings to force the program not to embellish key changes and chords that way. It doesn't work/it's broken. But tech support won't admit it and just says that's how it's supposed to be. So there you have it. If you change key in a song, you have to add 7th's. No if's and's or butt's. According to PG Music the creators of Band In A Box. BTW, it doesn't do it if you use their crappy midi files. Only when you try to use their Realtracks which are samples of real musicians. But still, that's the way it's supposed to be . . . BTW, I didn't realize Imagine changed key? Did we just get snookered? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, SteveStrummerUK said: Are there any 'rules' or guidelines to changing key in a song? Why does it always seem to sound so good? For proper accuracy, I believe you should specify intended key changes Steve! ? (Either that or you definitely never heard a singer we had back in school! ? ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, SteveStrummerUK said: Are there any 'rules' or guidelines to changing key in a song? I thought you already wrote the definitive answer to that question years ago.? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Dickens Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 17 minutes ago, Shane_B. said: I got attacked by the fanboy's when I asked how to make it stop doing that. Apparently that's how it's supposed to be. If you change key in a song 'technically' you are supposed to follow the original key and add in 7th's when the key changes. That was their excuse. BiaB has settings to force the program not to embellish key changes and chords that way. It doesn't work/it's broken. But tech support won't admit it and just says that's how it's supposed to be. So there you have it. If you change key in a song, you have to add 7th's. No if's and's or butt's. According to PG Music the creators of Band In A Box. BTW, it doesn't do it if you use their crappy midi files. Only when you try to use their Realtracks which are samples of real musicians. But still, that's the way it's supposed to be . . . No, you didn't get attacked. You can't unbake a cake. If the musician on the Real Track played a 7th chord when he recorded his track, then you get a 7th chord. Simple as that. The only way to get rid of the 7tb would be to re-record the track. For some reason you seem to be either unable or unwilling to understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveStrummerUK Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 31 minutes ago, Shane_B. said: BTW, I didn't realize Imagine changed key? Did we just get snookered? ? D'oh, massive brainfart there - - - 'my bad' as you American's say. I meant "Woman" (at around 2:23) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane_B. Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Just now, bdickens said: No, you didn't get attacked. You can't unbake a cake. If the musician on the Real Track played a 7th chord when he recorded his track, then you get a 7th chord. Simple as that. The only way to get rid of the 7tb would be to re-record the track. For some reason you seem to be either unable or unwilling to understand that. Sorry Steve. ? @bdickens ... If I have a song that starts in A and I change the key to B and it adds 7th's to everything after the key change, and according to you it's because of the way the samples were recorded, then why can I start the song in B and change the key to C and it plays the B's normal and adds 7th' to everything after the C? If what you are saying is true then every time I would have BiaB play a B it would be in 7th, no? Why can't it simply play the B after the key change the way it would if I had started the song in B if it's using pre-made samples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane_B. Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, SteveStrummerUK said: D'oh, massive brainfart there - - - 'my bad' as you American's say. I meant "Woman" (at around 2:23) Well thank goodness you got the correct Lennon woman song ... ? Edited February 12, 2021 by Shane_B. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Steve just got completely into the song and imagined a key change. Simples! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane_B. Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 minute ago, craigb said: Steve just got completely into the song and imagined a key change. Simples! ? I really liked his later music. It almost felt like he was going back to his roots. Woman, Watching The Wheels, and a few others were great songs. I can only imagine what he'd be doing now. I'm sure he would have gotten back together with Paul. Too much money to be made not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 33 minutes ago, craigb said: Steve just got completely into the song and imagined a key change. Simples! ? Steve may be many things but he is not Simples! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 What's a key (other than Am) and why would I want to change it? I'll (definitely) get me coat. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Just now, Bapu said: What's a key (other than Am) and why would I want to change it? I'll (definitely) get me coat. Why do you need a coat living in CA? Being 9° outside I have to get my coat. Now if you want to get a sweater or a wind breaker Ed I can live with that ? Back to the subject at hand "Am is the way" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveStrummerUK Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 16 minutes ago, Bapu said: What's a key (other than Am) and why would I want to change it? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Bapu is an Am-way representative. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Shane_B. said: I really liked his later music. It almost felt like he was going back to his roots. Woman, Watching The Wheels, and a few others were great songs. I can only imagine what he'd be doing now. I'm sure he would have gotten back together with Paul. Too much money to be made not to. On the plus side he wasn't around long enough to get desperate and feel the need to release the kind of musical drivel his former cohort resorted to. Edited February 12, 2021 by paulo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, paulo said: On the plus side he wasn't around long enough to get desperate and feel the need to release the kind of musical drivel his former cohort resorted to. Harsh, but fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, paulo said: On the plus side he wasn't around long enough to get desperate and feel the need to release the kind of musical drivel his former cohort resorted to. Poor Ringo, everyone disses on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now