Teegarden Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, User Zero said: Not sure I understand why anyone would ask this question. Only trying to help, since OP seemed to ask for input that could get him back on track... If I ask that, it is because I've been able to help several musicians with different DAWs in my neighbourhood by checking systematically what happened when they had problems...Checking software versions and types of hardware are part of that...(I should have asked for more info on hardware and software, my bad) It was a simple question, just to understand more about the working environment of @bdickens's system in order to try to pinpoint a problem. Win7 is still popular among many DAW users, but not supported by Microsoft anymore and CbB does not actively support this anymore as far as I know. Also, the update version of Win10 matters, regularly things go haywire with a new Windows update. You can't just blame CbB, there could be a number of reasons other than the DAW itself being the culprit. As explained by @msmcleod in this thread Microsoft Edge, it is a not-neglectable part of Windows 10 and CbB apparently uses a related part for its installation. There are a few others who had problems with it as well, so maybe the latest CbB version needs to be smoothed out, for OP it also could be plugin related, who knows? Regarding common sense, not everyone reads everything and communicates everything in a way that everybody will always understand everything (what a sentence...). So in order to help someone, sometimes questions that are obvious for most will still make sense. I agree that in this case a warning by CbB about Edge would be sensible. Sorry to hear that your system was messed up with an update. Other than The only way to find out what goes wrong is step by step checking where it what has changed. OP could at least try some of the suggestions or let me know why they could not help him. There was an error code that could be followed up and from what I thought was reported a certain file was not accessible or could not be updated. Sometimes that can easily be solved. It is impossible for any developer to make sure that an update works out of the box for everyone due to the virtually infinite combinations of hardware and software. In the meantime operating system and other software and hardware drivers also keep changing making it even harder to provide a 100% compatible solution. So once in a while you can be the unlucky one. Many other user have not reported this problem, so it is probably working for the vast majority. I guess we've all been there and way too much the DAW was blamed for something that eventually was caused by something else... I had huge instability problems after the last CbB update, which in the end appeared to be caused by Waves v12. Forums of other DAWs also reported similar problems with Waves v12, and uninstalling and going back to v11 fixed it. But first reaction is often: my DAW is buggy... Edited February 23, 2021 by Teegarden just noticed that many after me had responded, I didn't have time to read them all before posting this, so some of my remarks could be redundant 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, User Zero said: At no point have I implied that you're installing something that doesn't work on Win7. Here, I'll try to put it more simply... Microsoft Edge is a Win10-specific application. YES, I get it: you're not installing Edge, that's not the issue. While you (think you) may be only installing Edge's "WebView" component, after the CbB update, an "edgeupdate" service is installed on the user's system, and a task is set up to cause this service to phone home every 5 minutes looking for updates. Even worse, apparently this component is looking for updates to an application (i.e., MS Edge) that isn't even there (see the previous post where I included an Event message). Again, this service - the one you're installing - exhibits exactly the sort of resource-consuming behavior that motivates people to remove Edge from their Win10 systems. If you're going to CHOOSE to use a component that requires installation of something like this as part of your design, you should be informing your users. At no point have I stated that CbB should work on a system where Edge has been disabled or removed, so let's please not try to confuse the issue here with that. I saw the rollback installer. That only works if you have 2021 installed. I already clearly stated in my first post that after a successful System Restore, "the CW app's Help About reports that it's back to Version 2020.08 (Build 100, 64 bit)". Thus, the rollback installer won't run. Yet the DAW still crashes when I load a project that worked fine before the update. Again, if you have a link to actual installer exes for 2020.8 or previous, please let me know. Thanks. Jon sent you a link. The edge update service as I understand it is to keep the edge runtime up to date. This is a critical part of the edge runtime that needs to be periodically patched by MS to deal with malware and other exploits. Why it phones home to check for updates often I'm not sure about. Perhaps this is a question more suited to Microsoft. In any case its not trying to force install edge or anything like that. The edge webview redist requirement will go away in a future version of Windows 10 because Microsoft has indicated that its a temporary solution. At that time our installer won't need to install it anymore for Win10 that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Dickens Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 @Teegarden I am on W10. However, I got this machine back in 2016 or so IIRC and has not been updated. I have not until recently had internet access other than mobile data on my phone for various reasons, chief of which is that I live in a rural area where the only thing available is satellite which is expensive and not that reliable. So I was excited to find a mobile hotspot that would give us high speed internet for a much better deal than satellite. Although I have been able to update many things - including stepping up to CbB from SPLAT - I have not been able to update Windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Zero Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 33 minutes ago, Teegarden said: You can't just blame CbB ... Thanks, Tee'. I appreciate the comments. I'd only disagree on that one point, above. The DAW was working fine prior to the Update. It crashes when I attempt to load any project after the Update. Nothing else changed, so even if there were some problem with the plugin that was somehow being masked by the previous version of CbB, it's pretty clear what's to blame for the problem I'm having at the moment: my lack of good judgment in choosing to click the Update button. The sample library player / VST it's balking at (EastWest Play / play_VST_x64.dll) works perfectly fine in Reaper and, in fact, worked perfectly fine prior to the CbB update, so... ? Again, I'm not suggesting BL Tech should support Win7, but I do find it interesting that Cockos apparently does have the bandwidth to support Reaper on Win7 - as well as XP and Vista for that matter - FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 6 hours ago, User Zero said: Not sure I understand why anyone would ask this question. If there are versions of Windows that this application doesn't support, it should explicitly SAY so when an installation or update attempt is made. As such, the version of Windows should be irrelevant. If the application installs or updates, it should work. Period. If an OS version is not supported, the install or update should abort, with a clear message explaining why. At the very minimum, the user should get a clear prompt before ANY change is made, enumerating the possible outcomes... which should have been identified during product Q.A. This is just basic common sense. When I ran the update that destroyed my install the other day (and which has rendered my CbB projects inaccessible), I noticed with no small degree of horror that it ran an installation of some Microsoft Edge component. Microsoft support states that Edge is not compatible with Win7. This is a pretty clear indication that BandLab Assistant isn't paying any attention at all to the version of Windows on which it's running, when it absolutely should be - especially if there's a possibility that an installation or update can render the application inoperable. Independent of OS version, at a very minimum users should get a prompt warning that this Edge component is about to be installed, so they can decide whether or not they want more Microsoft garbage on their system - especially if they've previously gone to considerable effort to REMOVE it. Beyond this, the fact that a broken update persists across multiple successful System Restore operations demonstrates that BandLab Tech doesn't fully understand how to package a Windows application in a way such that changes can be undone when needed, for whatever reason. These 'dead in the water' situations, like mine, are a good indication that BandLab Tech is not testing this product very thoroughly. If anyone can provide a link to an installer for an older version of BandLab, so that I can at least salvage the stems on the projects I was working on, I'd be very grateful. TIA! FWIW my Windows 7 machine works absolutely fine with the latest CbB. The link you've posted saying Edge isn't supported by Windows 7 is over three years old. The Edge browser was included in one of the final Windows 7 updates just before update support stopped. It's running fine on my Windows 7 machine. The CbB installer gives a clear warning at the start of the installation that Windows 7 is no longer supported. All that means is we don't test it any more. I've not found any problems running CbB on Windows 7. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Brogden Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Just this evening, I Updated CBB to 2021.01. The update was successful as far as I can tell so far. I used BandLab Assistance to do the update. One strange thing happened -- BandLab Assistant is saying: A new version of BandLab Assistant is available for update. I then hit the Update button, I then see a progress bar zip across towards 80% and then BandLab Assistant exits. I tried this multiple times and I continue to get the "A new version of BandLab Assistant is available for update." message followed by hitting the Update button. I also tried running as administrator. BandLab Assitant appears to not be updating. What's up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teegarden Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, bdickens said: @Teegarden I am on W10. However, I got this machine back in 2016 or so IIRC and has not been updated. I have not until recently had internet access other than mobile data on my phone for various reasons, chief of which is that I live in a rural area where the only thing available is satellite which is expensive and not that reliable. So I was excited to find a mobile hotspot that would give us high speed internet for a much better deal than satellite. Although I have been able to update many things - including stepping up to CbB from SPLAT - I have not been able to update Windows. Wow, been a long time since I witnessed lack of internet access. That's very unfortunate... Well, as long as Windows is several versions behind, there might be at least part of the problem. From what I understand your connection is better now, so first I would try to update Windows (make sure to backup the whole system if possible and also -since your trouble shooting an instable environment- : after any new software installation a registry backup (delete the older ones if you get too many) so you can always return to a previous situation => Windows start => type "system protection" => click "System Restore" => click "configure" and switch system protection on and choose a maximum amount of disk space for the registry backups. (make sure your HD/SSD is not choking -has sufficient empty space- and in good health!) Windows10 had some audio related changes under the hood over the last few years, so that might have an effect. Don't forget to update the runtimes (see the all-in-one installer in my first reply). After that let's see what else could be done if CbB still cannot be updated or is showing other problems. 12 hours ago, User Zero said: Thanks, Tee'. I appreciate the comments. I'd only disagree on that one point, above. The DAW was working fine prior to the Update. It crashes when I attempt to load any project after the Update. Nothing else changed, so even if there were some problem with the plugin that was somehow being masked by the previous version of CbB, it's pretty clear what's to blame for the problem I'm having at the moment: my lack of good judgment in choosing to click the Update button. The sample library player / VST it's balking at (EastWest Play / play_VST_x64.dll) works perfectly fine in Reaper and, in fact, worked perfectly fine prior to the CbB update, so... ? Again, I'm not suggesting BL Tech should support Win7, but I do find it interesting that Cockos apparently does have the bandwidth to support Reaper on Win7 - as well as XP and Vista for that matter - FWIW. I don't think you can be blamed for trying to update? Seems that the problem lies in the way Edge (or just Edge runtime/webview ?) is being installed on your system. If installed right it's not resource consuming as long as it is not opened. I wouldn't worry about that. Something went wrong with the Edge install on your system. I would try to focus on getting that right. Don't forget that next to MS, other developers (like plugin companies) also stop supporting Win7 and that chances will only keep growing that an insuperable incompatibility will occur...For your current setup Cockos works at this moment, but they also will face the inevitable, incompatible surrounding pieces of software, that is. If you want to benefit from new hardware and software (if you're ever considering a new system) the most recent Win10 is your best bet. Most people I know that upgraded OS are quite happy in the end (apart from the occasional Windows update bugs, which is why it is advisable delay automatic updates!). Edited February 24, 2021 by Teegarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Jost Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 8 hours ago, bbdude said: Just this evening, I Updated CBB to 2021.01. The update was successful as far as I can tell so far. I used BandLab Assistance to do the update. One strange thing happened -- BandLab Assistant is saying: A new version of BandLab Assistant is available for update. I then hit the Update button, I then see a progress bar zip across towards 80% and then BandLab Assistant exits. I tried this multiple times and I continue to get the "A new version of BandLab Assistant is available for update." message followed by hitting the Update button. I also tried running as administrator. BandLab Assitant appears to not be updating. What's up with that? Assistant sometimes fails to auto update when it’s still running in the background. Try killing task from the taskbar, then relaunch BA. If that fails, just run the latest installer manually. https://www.bandlab.com/download/assistant/windows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Jesse Jost said: Assistant sometimes fails to auto update when it’s still running in the background. Try killing task from the taskbar, then relaunch BA. If that fails, just run the latest installer manually. https://www.bandlab.com/download/assistant/windows and if it's still problematic, run the installer locally as administrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Brogden Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Jesse - Thanks. The link worked. Hopefully not having BA updated to the latest version did not affect my CBB installation last night (which seemed to be successful). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Jost Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 minute ago, bbdude said: Hopefully not having BA updated to the latest version did not affect my CBB installation last night (which seemed to be successful). Great! BA version has no effect on which Cakewalk version gets installed, so you are good to go! In Cakewalk, you can ensure that you are on the latest version by going to Help > Check for Updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Dickens Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) @Teegarden I did a system restore and got my desktop icon back. I am now back at version 2020.11 but it is not working either. This was the version I was at before CbB broke. I tried the steps you outlined earlier and I still can not update windows, but the error code has changed. 0x8024402f Backing up now. Edited February 24, 2021 by bdickens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Hughes Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 This worked for me what Cakewalk started crashing, hold down "ctrl" when launching Cakewalk and it will reset your defaults, for some reason when I updated a .cfg file somewhere got corrupted and this seemed to fix the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teegarden Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, bdickens said: @Teegarden I did a system restore and got my desktop icon back. I am now back at version 2020.11 but it is not working either. This was the version I was at before CbB broke. I tried the steps you outlined earlier and I still can not update windows, but the error code has changed. 0x8024402f Backing up now. That error code is related to failing Windows update. There are several ways you can try to solve this. The Windows Club gives a few clear options explained with graphics (but don't download their PC repair tool, I don't know it and when I downloaded to check it my virus scanner gave some warnings). If that's not working, this website provides also has some alternative options: TechinPost There could also be some system files corrupt or missing. An easy and save program like Windows10Manager has all the Windows 10 repair options in easy accessible tabs. I think you can still download a free trial version. If so, it is definitely recommended. Saves you the hassle of trying to find and execute all of the instructions for each repair item. But of course, you can also do these repair steps manually. One of them is system file checker, the others you can Google yourself (component store corruption, Component Store / System Files Corruption, WMI repair, reset windows update, system restore troubleshooting, MSI repair) Please let me know if anything helps you out. If not, I'm happy to look further. Edited February 24, 2021 by Teegarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Dickens Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 @Teegarden The links you gave all look pretty much like stuff I have already been through. Microsoft's own troubleshooter pretty much runs me in circles This is absolute BS that doing a system restore, thereby rolling back to a version that worked, doesn't work. What's the damn point? It is starting to look like I am going to either do without CbB and use something else or end up having to go through the pain of reinstalling and reauthorizing everything. I can't really lay this all at Cakewalk/ Bandlab's feet because my system was probably screwed up anyway. But I'm really pissed that their BS, broken installer forced my hand at a time when I am not at all prepared to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 @bdickens I sent you a PM. This is unfortunately beginning to look like something is corrupted with your Windows update settings. I had this happen on one of my machines a year ago and the only thing that fixed it finally was a reinstall of Windows despite Microsoft trying to fix it in several sessions. However you can try and do a service call with them since it may be fixable. Explain to them that their webview installer is failing and you cannot do windows updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teegarden Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 8 hours ago, bdickens said: Microsoft's own troubleshooter pretty much runs me in circles FWIW I've almost never succeeded repairing something with Microsoft's troubleshooter or advice directly from MS forums. If you look on MS' own forums you find many people complaining about the unprofessional answers and lack of knowledge of the MS help desks each time turning in circles. Often it is another user that found a way to deal with the problem and helps others out. Like Noel, I also have experienced this in the past and had to reinstall. In some cases a more thorough system repair can solve the problem. This is a typical MS problem and extremely annoying. Sometime TheWindowsClub has answers that can help you out. They also have some handy free tools. I just found their FixWin tool that has a few extra options not available in Windows10Manager. You could give that one a last try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Hughes Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 I also ran in to Windows issues like this so I downloaded Windows 10 from Microsoft and using Media Creator created a bootable install usb then reinstalled Windows fresh and then reinstalled Cakewalk. All my music was still there, just had to reset the midi and audio settings which wasn't too bad. I had gone down the path for months trying to "fix" Windows following every guide in the book and in the end this was my only solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 This is what I did as well on the affected PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teegarden Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 same here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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