Strange crashes with AAS VSTs

[Steve Moddelmog]

Driving me crazy:  I bought AAS Ultra Analog VA-3 and Chromaphone 2 a month or two ago.  I already had Ultra Analog VA-2 and the original Chromaphone.  My default sampling rate for new projects is 48000.  As you'll see below, I was able to use the new VSTs in projects whose sampling rate was 48000.

Day before yesterday, I installed the January early access release of Cakewalk.  I started a new project and when I inserted VA-3 as a new synth (with MIDI track), Cakewalk froze.  I had to kill the task.  Tried again.  Cakewalk froze again.  I thought it must be an issue with the early release, so I uninstalled Cakewalk and re-installed the December release from Bandlab Assistant.  Still had the problem.  After killing the task several times, I tried inserting Chromaphone 2.  Project froze.  So I uninstalled both VA-3 and Chromaphone 2 using Revo Pro.  Re-booted and reinstalled.  Still had the problem.  So I opened a new project and set the sampling rate at 44.1.  I was able to insert both VSTs without crashing Cakewalk.  Since then, I can now use a project sampling rate of 48000 with Chromaphone 2 without crashing Cakewalk, but not VA-3.  EXCEPT - I can open projects I started a few weeks ago that used 48000 with VA-3 and they open and play fine.   I now have no problems with new projects if I set the project sampling rate to 44.1.

Looking at Windows Application logs, the error almost always says "The program Cakewalk.exe version 25.12.0.26 stopped interacting with Windows and was closed."   The "Hang type" is "Cross-thread."  System has 2 Xeon processors so 24 threads altogether, if that makes any difference.  However, a few of the errors are different and start with "Faulting application name: Cakewalk.exe, version: 25.12.0.26, time stamp: 0x5e02bb3f / Faulting module name: KERNELBASE.dll, version: 10.0.18362.535, time stamp: 0x50cc8d5a."  None of the error messages mention the VSTs.

Just to be clear, I am back to running the December release.

I've run out of ideas to fix, except just to accept that my project sampling rate needs to be 44.1 if I want to use these VSTs.  Any ideas?

Edited January 27, 2020 by Steve Moddelmog
correction

[gokidsmusic]

My VST3 versions of Ultra Analog VA-3 & Chromaphone 2 crash on instantiation regardless of sample rate settings.

VST2 versions work fine.

AAS said there was no issue in CbB with VST3 versions.

I always run with latest CbB and Win 10 x64 and I launch CbB as Administrator.

Both VST3 plugins work fine in Cubase 10.5 and Reaper.

Multiple install/uninstalls.  No joy.

I ended up sticking with VST2 (excluded VST3 versions in Cakewalk Plug-In Manager).  VST2 works perfectly.

I'm interested in any answers you may find.

[Steve Moddelmog]

13 minutes ago, gokidsmusic said:

My VST3 versions of Ultra Analog VA-3 & Chromaphone 2 crash on instantiation regardless of sample rate settings.

VST2 versions work fine.

AAS said there was no issue in CbB with VST3 versions.

I always run with latest CbB and Win 10 x64 and I launch CbB as Administrator.

Both VST3 plugins work fine in Cubase 10.5 and Reaper.

Multiple install/uninstalls.  No joy.

I ended up sticking with VST2 (excluded VST3 versions in Cakewalk Plug-In Manager).  VST2 works perfectly.

I'm interested in any answers you may find.

I guess I'm lucky that they work with 44.1 sample rate, that Chromaphone 2 works fine with 48000 sample rate, and that both worked at first with 48000 sample rate, and that I can still run projects that were created with 48000 and contained VA-3 back when it was not a problem.  I will try excluding the VST3 and see what happens.

Wondering what your audio interface is.  Mine is Focusrite 2i4.

[Steve Moddelmog]

Should have left well enough alone.  I tried rolling back my Focusrite drivers to the previous version.  That did no good, but when I updated back to the current version, I lost Chromaphone 2 again for projects that use a 48000 sample rate.  As before, a different error message altogether in the Windows error log from the one for VA-3.  Thanks for pointing out the VST2 "workaround."  But I wish this would work properly.

[gokidsmusic]

My interface is a PreSonus AudioBox 1818VSL

[Steve Moddelmog]

OK, stranger still...

I uninstalled all of my AAS stuff that had VST3 versions using Revo Pro.  Rebooted and reinstalled all.  Chromaphone 2 worked again with sample rate of 48000 - good start.  I guess the key was uninstalling with Revo Pro, which got rid of more stuff than a simple uninstall in Windows.

However, Ultra Analog VA-3 still seemed to hang Cakewalk.  I left a "new project" where I had merely inserted Ultra Analog in a project with 48000 sample rate open for about 6 hours while I was out at appointments.  Seemingly in a hung status.  When I came back, I touched a key on my MIDI keyboard and Ultra Analog responded with what I now recognize as its default preset when you open it.  I double clicked and was able to operate my way through the VST's GUI - selected new patches, edited them, etc.  Then I tried closing the project and it appeared to hang.  After 30 seconds or so I opened task manager, and Cakewalk was using 25GB of memory (I have 48!).  I watched the memory usage slowly decline to around 370MB, I think, and then the project closed. So I tried starting a new project (sample rate of 48000) and again the memory usage slowly (about 30MB per second, I think) increased until it leveled off at 36GB.  Until then, there was no sound when I hit a key on the keyboard, but at 36GB I again got sound, could change and edit presets, etc.)  Here's a screenshot of task manager at the point when the VST finally worked  - what in the world is going on? (By the way, I can still open a project I created January 15, before I started having these issues, with no problems and Task Manager reports about 2.4GB memory usage.)

Spo

Edited January 29, 2020 by Steve Moddelmog

[Steve Moddelmog]

Saw a post about changing the Thread Scheduling Model with the introduction of an "aggressive" option, so I decided to try Chromaphone 2 and Ulatra Analog VA-3 VTS3s with it set a 3.  Both crashed.  Setting at 0, 1, or 2 allowed me to run Chromaphone 2 as a VST3, but not Ultra Analog VA-3.  It crashes under all settings.

Still very frustrated, as this was working fine two weeks ago.  And it seems odd that I can open projects created January 15 or prior that use the VA-3 VST3 with no problem - no spike in memory usage - but cannot insert a new instance.

[Noel Borthwick]

Hi @Steve Moddelmog can you please send me a dump file to analyze?
Here is info on how to capture a dump file for a hang. 

[Noel Borthwick]

On 1/29/2020 at 5:49 PM, Steve Moddelmog said:

OK, stranger still...

I uninstalled all of my AAS stuff that had VST3 versions using Revo Pro.  Rebooted and reinstalled all.  Chromaphone 2 worked again with sample rate of 48000 - good start.  I guess the key was uninstalling with Revo Pro, which got rid of more stuff than a simple uninstall in Windows.

However, Ultra Analog VA-3 still seemed to hang Cakewalk.  I left a "new project" where I had merely inserted Ultra Analog in a project with 48000 sample rate open for about 6 hours while I was out at appointments.  Seemingly in a hung status.  When I came back, I touched a key on my MIDI keyboard and Ultra Analog responded with what I now recognize as its default preset when you open it.  I double clicked and was able to operate my way through the VST's GUI - selected new patches, edited them, etc.  Then I tried closing the project and it appeared to hang.  After 30 seconds or so I opened task manager, and Cakewalk was using 25GB of memory (I have 48!).  I watched the memory usage slowly decline to around 370MB, I think, and then the project closed. So I tried starting a new project (sample rate of 48000) and again the memory usage slowly (about 30MB per second, I think) increased until it leveled off at 36GB.  Until then, there was no sound when I hit a key on the keyboard, but at 36GB I again got sound, could change and edit presets, etc.)  Here's a screenshot of task manager at the point when the VST finally worked  - what in the world is going on? (By the way, I can still open a project I created January 15, before I started having these issues, with no problems and Task Manager reports about 2.4GB memory usage.)

Spo

This looks like a memory leak leading to this. Can you reproduce this by just creating a project and inserting Revo Pro?

[Steve Moddelmog]

7 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

This looks like a memory leak leading to this. Can you reproduce this by just creating a project and inserting Revo Pro?

Revo Pro is an uninstaller utility.  Do you mean by inserting Ultra Analog VA-3? Yes, it happens just by creating a projecting and inserting Ultra Analog VA-3 (Ultra Analog VA-3 loads a default preset when you insert it).  If I then look at task manager without doing anything else, I watch the memory usage slowing creep up to 36GB, and until it reaches that, hitting a note on my MIDI keyboard does not produce a sound.

[Steve Moddelmog]

16 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Hi @Steve Moddelmog can you please send me a dump file to analyze?
Here is info on how to capture a dump file for a hang. 

There are a lot of dumps over the past few days while I've been fooling around with this.  None are in the Plugins subfolder of MiniDumps.  How do I send them to you?  Thanks.

[scook]

The crash file could be in either %AppData%\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core\Minidumps or %AppData%\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core\Minidumps\Plugins. If you are not sure which to send, clear out the folder(s) and generate a fresh dump. Since it appears to happen often, this may be the best way because you will know exactly which plug-in was in use at the time. Once you have the dump file, zip it and upload it to a file hosting service like Google Drive or OneDrive and PM Noel a link to the file.

 

[Steve Moddelmog]

56 minutes ago, scook said:

The crash file could be in either %AppData%\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core\Minidumps or %AppData%\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core\Minidumps\Plugins. If you are not sure which to send, clear out the folder(s) and generate a fresh dump. Since it appears to happen often, this may be the best way because you will know exactly which plug-in was in use at the time. Once you have the dump file, zip it and upload it to a file hosting service like Google Drive or OneDrive and PM Noel a link to the file.

 

Thanks.  Just did it.

[Steve Moddelmog]

3 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

This looks like a memory leak leading to this. Can you reproduce this by just creating a project and inserting Revo Pro?

One more thing I want to reiterate - none of this happens with project sample rate set at 44.1 - only at 48000 or higher.  At 44.1, memory usage is normal when inserting Ultra Analog VA-3, and I produce sound hitting a key on my MIDI keyboard as soon as I insert the synth.

[Noel Borthwick]

@Steve Moddelmog I looked at all (well several) of the dump files you sent. These are all 100% plugin crashes - the stacks are not even remotely in Cakewalk code so its not something I can analyze further. The crashes are all in a shared plugin dll that they are loading called Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin. 

I suggest that you get in touch with AAS and give them the same dump files. They should be able to analyze why the plugins are crashing since its within their shared plugin code. I know the AAS guys well so if they need any assistance from us ask them to contact me. Its likely some incompatibility or a bug in the plugin thats being exposed under some conditions on your system. I've included some relevant snippets from the dumps.

One more thing suspicious in your dump files. I see that you are running outdated Microsoft runtimes for the VC redistributables.

Here are the time stamps you have:
mfc140u.dll    *C:\Windows\System32\mfc140u.dll    14.16.27024.1    11/7/2018 1:49 PM    
VCRUNTIME140.dll *C:\Windows\System32\VCRUNTIME140.dll    14.16.27024.1    11/7/2018 1:35 PM    

The ones we redistribute are much later so I'm not sure why your system isn't up to date. Maybe you reverted the install somehow or another app put old files there.
The versions from the Cakewalk installer are as below:
mfc14u.dll 14.20.27508.1 3/8/2019 
vcruntime.dll 14.20.27508.1 3/8/2019

Please do an install of the latest VC redists by following this link. After ensuring that you have more current versions of these files please redo the test and see if it crashes. I'm not sure if your crash issues are related but having old redist files can definitely cause crashes and other incompatibilities.
 

'Untitled_01312020_125802.dmp' (Minidump): Loaded '*\\?\C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Temp\Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin 64\Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin'. Module was built without symbols.
Unhandled exception at 0x0000000054EE4660 (Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin) in Untitled_01312020_125802.dmp: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x0000000066B15180.

'Untitled_01252020_092413.dmp' (Minidump): Loaded 'C:\Windows\System32\explorerframe.dll'. 
Unhandled exception at 0x00000000A8FF834C (Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin) in Untitled_01252020_092413.dmp: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.

ntitled_01262020_184418.dmp' (Minidump): Loaded '*c:\program files\common files\VST3\Chromaphone 2.vst3'. Module was built without symbols.
'Untitled_01262020_184418.dmp' (Minidump): Loaded '*\\?\C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Temp\Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin 64\Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin'. Module was built without symbols.
Unhandled exception at 0x00007FFE4A80A839 (KERNELBASE.dll) in Untitled_01262020_184418.dmp: 0x20474343 (parameters: 0x000000007D5DF370).

Untitled_01262020_185903.dmp' (Minidump): Loaded '*c:\program files\common files\VST3\Chromaphone 2.vst3'. Module was built without symbols.
'Untitled_01262020_185903.dmp' (Minidump): Loaded '*\\?\C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Temp\Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin 64\Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin'. Module was built without symbols.
Unhandled exception at 0x0000000072754660 (Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin) in Untitled_01262020_185903.dmp: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x000000000078A180.

'Untitled_01262020_190505.dmp' (Minidump): Loaded '*c:\program files\common files\VST3\Chromaphone 2.vst3'. Module was built without symbols.
'Untitled_01262020_190505.dmp' (Minidump): Loaded '*\\?\C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Temp\Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin 64\Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin'. Module was built without symbols.
Unhandled exception at 0x0000000071784660 (Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin) in Untitled_01262020_190505.dmp: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x00000000722E8180.

'Untitled_01262020_195535.dmp' (Minidump): Loaded '*c:\program files\common files\VST3\Chromaphone 2.vst3'. Module was built without symbols.
'Untitled_01262020_195535.dmp' (Minidump): Loaded '*\\?\C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Temp\Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin 64\Chromaphone 2 Shared.bin'. Module was built without symbols.
'Untitled_01262020_195535.dmp' (Minidump): Loaded '*c:\program files\common files\VST3\Ultra Analog VA-3.vst3'. Module was built without symbols.
'Untitled_01262020_195535.dmp' (Minidump): Loaded '*\\?\C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Temp\Ultra Analog VA-3 Shared.bin 64\Ultra Analog VA-3 Shared.bin'. Module was built without symbols.
Unhandled exception at 0x00007FFE7027A839 (KERNELBASE.dll) in Untitled_01262020_195535.dmp: 0x20474343 (parameters: 0x000000008AA21B50).

 

[Starship Krupa]

It's possible that the custom uninstaller program is responsible for the antique version of the Visual C++ libraries. Those uninstaller programs can be a mixed bag, with the occasional baby going out with the bathwater in the case of such things as shared libraries.

A few things that I have learned about AAS's software, being a big fan: First, they recently updated most of their stuff, so make sure you have the latest. Second, their installer is compliant with the Windows 10 uninstall list, so if you want to uninstall their stuff, it's all there in the Apps list in Windows Settings. Third, in my experience AAS are right behind Waves as far as strewing copies of their plug-ins all over the place. Seriously, I have wondered whether if a folder has the string "VST" in its name they just go ahead and stick a copy of their .DLL's in there. I've found copies of their plug-ins in my Cakewalk folder, my Programs folder, all over the place. 32-bit, AAX, 32-bit AAX, whatever.

I don't like there to be more than one copy of a given plug-in on my system because multiple copies can cause issues with version control, so after an AAS install I go around and manually root out the extras.

@Noel Borthwick, I, too, seem to now be having AAS woes in a project that previously played fine. My issue is more nebulous at the moment, so I can't chime in except to say that I'm also seeing higher resource usage with corresponding stutter and crackle in the audio output. This is on my lesser-powered i5 notebook using the onboard chip with WASAPI, not the system shown in my sig. Switching ThreadScheduling back and forth between 2 and 3 seems to result in a bit smoother operation with 2, but results are as yet inconclusive.

[Objektor]

It's heartening to read this thread. I've only started trying out Cakewalk with a view to shift DAWs and when I started a song project today, I got crashes on several occasions. And guess what ? I was using the AAS Rhodes 'Lounge Lizard' keyboard on every occasion that it happened. It's good to know that it's probably the plugin's problem, rather than the DAW. I may delete all three of my AAS VSTs and download again from PiB, in the event that they've been updated with bug fixes since I bought them. 

[Steve Moddelmog]

16 hours ago, Proboscis said:

It's heartening to read this thread. I've only started trying out Cakewalk with a view to shift DAWs and when I started a song project today, I got crashes on several occasions. And guess what ? I was using the AAS Rhodes 'Lounge Lizard' keyboard on every occasion that it happened. It's good to know that it's probably the plugin's problem, rather than the DAW. I may delete all three of my AAS VSTs and download again from PiB, in the event that they've been updated with bug fixes since I bought them. 

There have been some recent updates, but they didn't solve my problem.  I'm going to contact AAS directly but have been too busy to put it in writing.  I doubt if they would appreciate me just providing a link to this topic.  I've got Lounge Lizard but haven't used it lately.  I'll give it a try and see what happens.

[David Baay]

I had the same issue with the VST3 version of Chromaphone. The VST2 was fine. Sometime after updating my Nvidia drivers I saw the thread below, and tried the VST3 again, and found that the problem had gone away:

 

[Steve Moddelmog]

On 2/7/2020 at 2:03 AM, David Baay said:

I had the same issue with the VST3 version of Chromaphone. The VST2 was fine. Sometime after updating my Nvidia drivers I saw the thread below, and tried the VST3 again, and found that the problem had gone away:

 

I updated my NVidia drivers but the problem persists.  I seem to be ok with Chromaphone 2 now, so it's not a "crash," per se -- If I'm willing to wait long enough (several minutes) and use of 36GB of memory, I can use the VA-3 VST3.  I have been distracted the past several days looking after my new granddaughter so the parents could have a long weekend getaway, but I will try to get support from AAS today or tomorrow.  A new version of the AAS plugins was made available since the issue started for me (from 3.1.1 to 3.1.2 for VA-3), but it did not fix the problem.

One thing I'm pretty sure of is that the problem surfaced shortly after the Windows update that "fixed" the Windows search issue.  I have read that people have had issues with all sorts of things, including sound devices, as a result of that update.  If I were really energetic, I would uninstall the update and see if it made a difference.  Since I can use the VST2, there seems to be not much reason to go to that trouble for what may be a dead end.