Astraios

Hm, correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't even found a picture of the Remote CTRL window in the Sonar manual... And by the way, can someone help me with the NRPN? I thought the NRPN consists of four parts: MSB 99 (coarse), LSB 98 (coarse), MSB 6 (fine), and LSB 38 (fine), but the Remote Control window only has one entry field?

There's a significant difference between MIDI Learn assignments and Synthrack (VST parameter) assignments. MIDI Learn typically only supports the "essential" functions of a plug-in, while VST parameters support all available functions of a plug-in. MIDI Learn has the ability to be transferred project-independently. Unfortunately, this is only possible to a limited extent with envelope assignments, and you have to set it up again each time. Many have had the unpleasant experience of losing all the painstakingly created MIDI Learn assignments with one click. Once you've experienced this a few times, you quickly get fed up with it. It's probably up to the programmer how the MIDI Learn is organized, but in my experience, it can only operate on one channel, which is quite a limitation. Sometimes, for backup purposes, you can even save the entire MIDI Learn setup, such as with the reFX Nexus 5 synth. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just don't know, if I change control assignments in a Melda Sound Factory Instrument preset (for example), do the changes within MSF get communicated to Sonar in such a way that (1) Sonar knows remote controls are in effect within MSF and (2) Sonar can report what parameters each learned CC is mapped to. This question, I have to think about... Nice to meet you 😁 If you are into Melda Products you may like my YT Clip about Remote controlling a Melda EQ

As you can see again in this short clip, there's no visual indication in the Clip Editor window as to whether the MIDI remote is enabled or not. The first window in the clip has a remote assignment and is active; the other two have no assignment. sonar remote active sign.mp4

In this case, realtime MIDIinput via the Sonar Remote Control Tool isn't possible, as you can't perform any further functions with the PC mouse once the Sonar Remote window is opened. Therefore, you have to enter the MIDI data manually into the Remote Tool (which means you have to know the values). I don't know if the reverse approach—moving the databar in the Clip-Editor Remote Area (using pc mouse) to move the Plugin's knob is possible? It sounds very complicated (and it is), but the goal was to use the right side (Blue Cat) Plugin knob (Twist) to move the left side databar in the clip editor. It won't work without the loopMIDI tool (virtual ports). It fools Sonar and tricks the DAW into thinking it's receiving external MIDI input, even though it's actually Sonars own signal. Ha ha, what a trick...

Hey Ho - good news... 🤠 Controlling a Sonar VST envelope via an internal plug-in (BC-Remote Control) remotely is possible without the MIDI Learn function. Thanks to "loopMIDI" (a virtual MIDI cable), it's actually possible. My SetUp can be controlled both way with the mouse or the hardware controller. It took me a year or so to get it right. For a long time, I thought it was impossible... WOW - Sonar MIDI wonder tool!! Z3TA+ --> "OSC1 Twist" doesn't have a MIDI learn function and can be accessed in the clip editor via a VST parameter envelope. However, you have to route the signal from Sonar via a MIDIout-Port for it to trigger the envelope. And even though the whole thing is controlled via "Sonar Remote Control" and I can even block the MIDI signal flow by echo or mute. This option takes me a huge step further... Blue Cat's "Remote Control" plugin is essentially a virtual MIDI controller that allows you to conveniently label individual MIDI functions. This is great, of course, because it lets you know which function has been assigned to which button, knob, or slider. That's exactly what I'm after: I want to control my virtual synths very precisely and comprehensively. Controlling a VST-Parameter.mp4

Sure, yes, that makes sense... 🫡

I wish I could agree with you, but I think some people would disagree with you... Anyway, the Sonar PRV is really far out.

What amazes me is that there's a multi-million dollar industry for MIDI controllers, represented at various music and audio trade shows around the world, yet I can only find one page on remote control in the Sonar manual, which is over 1,400 pages long... Why is the topic of remote control so neglected? Over 15 years ago, I was amazed at how difficult and complicated it was to get anything working with my CME VX MIDI keyboard that involved more than just controlling volume and pan. The entire process is either not documented or only inadequately documented. What surprises me most, though, is how many users have simply given up on the subject.

Hello Mr. Cakewalk and Mrs. Sonar, I have a small (big) request for the programming team: Would it be possible to color-code all envelopes assigned to a remote assignment in the clip editor, so you can see at a glance which ones already have a remote link? Sometimes I have 5, 10, 20, or 30 envelopes in the Clip Editor and it's difficult to see which ones already have a active remote connection. If you delete the envelopes for storage reasons, the remote assignments remain in the project – but then you no longer have any overview of the remotes that have already been assigned. That would be great.

Hey thanks, I just saw your message yesterday, and that's a great idea. I created an "All Tracks Folder" and put all the tracks into it. Now I can instantly turn all the echoes on and off in the Track Manager. There is no way to Remote-CTRL or automate this... Echo in Track Manager on-off.mp4

Another Sonar User just confirmed this behaviour too ...

Hi and Hello, If you activate the Echo button with a mouse click in the Track Pane, this also happens simultaneously in the Track Manager. If you then assign the same Echo button via MIDI Remote (with a CC), the Echo button will not be displayed as active (blue) in the Track Manager. This means that the Echo button will be blue in the Track Pane, but not in the Track Manager. 🙃 (in a regular way you can't even create this scenario that is pictured) Also this issue does not occur with Mute, Solo or Rec button.

Yes, but it is very, very thin...

Hey guys, it would be so much nicer and more pleasant if a small border surrounded the Track Manager window. As it is now, the window barely stands out from its surroundings.

Hi Mr. Cakewalk and Mrs. Sonar, after proving the potential of this DAW with your redesign of the Track Manager, I'd like to ask you another favor. Could you create another browser window for the VST Parameters and the Remote Control (like in FL Studio --> see photo?) This would be soooo cool!! And of course, it could be much better than it is in FL. For example, it would be great if each VST parameter had a specific color when assigned to a remote, and if you could see the assigned remote CTRL command right next to it. Make Sonar great again 😁

I just love it - it's great!!! 😁 Finally in color and I can see all active echoes at a glance - and MSR, etc - It's an insane tool now and it will be my new favorite command view in Sonar.

and sometimes, when you change the track assignment of the MIDI tracks in the SynthRack editor, such changes can also occur... In this case (picture) I changed (in Synthrack) from one MIDI Track to another 😅 the old VST parameters will then remain in the previous track as "orphaned" If the orphans are then deleted and the remaining envelopes removed, they will all be there again the next time the project is started, despite saving. At least, that's how it is for me. You can delete the orphans individually (by delete Envelope), which closes the clip editor window completely. With a hundred orphans, you'll probably spend an hour sitting there.

@Wookiee I have also experienced saving it in one representation and then the next time I started the project it was in the other representation 🫡

For the past year, I've been working a lot with MIDI tracks, VST parameters, envelopes, and remote controls. I'm basically studying the stuff, and that's when I noticed something. It's not random...

Hi, maybe I'll figure it out someday: sometimes one view appears in the clip/track editor and sometimes the other...? In the two photos, you can see the VST parameter envelopes of a plugin in the Track Pane --> Clip Editor. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- To clarify this a little more precisely, I must add that both images show the same plugin/soft synth in the same project. If anyone has figured it out before me, I'd be happy to hear from you.

Thanks for the message and your effort. I don't think the question was understood correctly. The point is that the remote is assigned to a VST envelope. I may not have been able to express myself with the greatest possible technical precision, but my statement referred exclusively to the hierarchical position of the Remote Control assigned to an envelope.

Hi, one more question regarding "Remote Control"? There's something I don't understand: Even though I've muted all tracks and turned off all echoes in all tracks, Sonar receives incoming MIDI CCs and still controls the soft synth after following Remote settings (CC27 Chn-7 Spire Vol) (foto beyond)...? Does that mean MIDI Remote has absolute priority and is above everything else in the hierarchy? The command flow can only be deactivated if I delete the remote command. I've never noticed this in 20 years of Cakewalk life. In this case, midi data is being transmitted to sonar that can only be measured with an external midi controller?

Hmm, sometimes Cakewalk/Sonar is really merciless... it just doesn't want to (special) copy my clip editor labels or include them in the template. Bad luck again. I already suspect there won't be a solution for this 🙈

Exactly, track templates - but I copy the VST envelopes of the soft synth from one project to another