PavlovsCat

Man, we are all so very prone to tangents in this group! (Of course, I am including myself in that statement.) Hahaha! Pizza, check. Bears, check. White Castles (actually based out of Ohio), check. Wrigley Field, check. I love harmless, friendly tangents. My wife is from MN. She loves Chicago pizza and the Cubs -- I've made her a convert -- but remains a hardcore Vikings fan. I took her to White Castles when we were dating once, she threw up (and no, she wasn't drinking, she's not much of a drinker). I told her that's just the human body building immunity. She still refuses to eat it again.

Did you realize that Muddy Waters used to live in Westmont, IL (in the western burbs, as you said that's where you live)?

In my single days, not any time recently. Loved Buddy Guy's Blue Legends. When I went to college, I traveled the midwest as a drummer. When my bandmates were partying, I was studying -- literally. I'd do a sound check and then go backstage and study for my classes. My kids see posters and my son once said, "Wow, you must have been pretty wild in those days." Then I broke it to him that my band nicknamed me Father (and my last name) because they said I should be a priest! But I had a fulltime job selling commercial printing, doing posters for Chicago record labels and worked with Alligator (Bruce -- a total blues legend) as well as Touch and Go Records (Corey Rusk is an awesome guy who was always incredibly good to me and introduced me to the heads of every independent rock label head in Chicago; Touch & Go was Kurt Cobain's fav record label but Corey famously turned him down for a deal but signed him for a single -- I handled the poster on the single). But I got to meet some of my favorite Chicago blues artists back then. Man, that was exciting! The Alligator Records Christmas parties were a blast with all of these blues legends and Bruce would invite me. Good times.

When I almost left Chicago for a job in another state, I thought of what I would miss (1) Wrigley Field, (2) Chicago pizza and (3) Chicago blues. A lot of Italian-Americans have lasagna on Thanksgivings -- those memes are true!

@Marc Cormier I can't believe I just made this Giordano's connection!!!! Major tangent, I left my big shot with a major signed band that had a couple of hits, because I was a very devout Christian. So, I was involved with my church and designed and led these luncheons that brought together churchgoers with the local homeless community. And I often took everyone to Giordano's because they didn't hassle homeless people coming in and dining with us. But this one young lady who had just attended our church for the first time sat down and befriended a female friend of mine and wanted pepperoni and pineapple pizza. With a mock serious expression, I said, "That is an abomination and an offense to my people! (I'm Italian-American) Eating that would shame generations of my ancestors!!!" But hey, she was cute and charming and persuaded me and I gave in. Many years later, I still have pepperoni and pineapple pizza with that woman and our two kids, and my son now regularly volunteers at a food pantry. I think that means the circle is complete? Sorry, I'm sharing too much lately.

Let's see if we can get @cclarry in on this. I realize a lot of non-Chicagoans don't love deep dish pizza. But more Chicagoans tend to eat thin crust anyhow. But how about you Larry, do you like the Detroit style pizza? My wife is from MN and loves Chicago pizza. She lived in the NY area, but really doesn't like their pizza. Whereas every time I'm in NY i get their pizza. I like Chicago's best, but I love pizza, all kinds.

Marc, I completely agree!!! Although, it's considered uncool to like Giordano's, I'm right with you -- and I'm Italian-American and have an enormous love for pizza. If you are out on the Southside, the best pizza in the world is at Palermo's on 95th Street in Oak Lawn. I grew up with my aunt and uncle owning a pizza chain on the Southside, but their pizza couldn't hold a candle to Palermos. Also up there, Paisan's and in the south and western burbs, Aurellio's.

Funny, the Magnificent Mile is all about shopping! It should be a natural for people in this forum. but yeah, those are different kinds of deals. As far as Illinoisans who rip on Chicago/IL and talk about crime, it's a hyperpolitical and racial thing they're saying (Black crime) that everyone from Illinois is very familiar with -- social media is overflowing with those posts, it's really cliché at this post, but folks keep doing that rant anyhow. The shootings aren't at their highest levels this year they were worse in the 90s and 80s. There is another agenda behind those complaints which is incredibly hyperpartisan and racial (Chicago has a Black mayor who is the target of the exaggerations by this hyperpartisan and very racially focused group). Chicago is still a nice city, but some folks trying to push an agenda like to engage in coded racial and hyperpartisan messaging. I'll leave it there. Chicago is still a nice city, but the sections with high poverty tend to also have high crime. It's been that way for decades like many other big cities. I love Lou Malnati's thin crust, not their deep dish.

Since this thread is really all about tangents, here's a friendly, harmless and non-controversial one. For those looking for a diversion away from Black Friday and Cyber Monday, I strongly recommend the Beatles Get Back documentary. Okay, it will probably not appeal to non-Beatles fans, but I'm a big Beatles fan and I loved it. It was great to see that in contrast to the Let It Be documentary, that these four guys had a lot of affection for one another, especially John and Paul with each other. I love John, Paul and George's music and it was clear that George was really unhappy because he clearly didn't get his due in the band. Of course, when he released a double album of songs John and Paul rejected, "All Things Must Pass," I think the world got to see that he too was a great songwriter. Anyhow, if you love The Beatles, rock or songwriting and you're on a budget, take $7.99 USD from plugin and sample budget and spend it on a month of Disney+ to watch that. You'll be glad you did.

As a marketer, there are some sales tactics that I find overly manipulative or downlight ugly that I would never advise a client to engage in. One thing I really don't like -- although it doesn't fall clearly into those areas, it is subjective -- is the artificial sales limiting. Of course, I realize why small developers do it, but I still dislike the technique and find it overly manipulative. Sales have a valuable purpose for a business -- they raise revenue quickly. When you get into the games, I think it's not the best course to take. As we've seen sales techniques that annoy bitflipper, I bet a lot of us have techniques they don't particularly like. And because there are so many small developers who don't necessarily have experts at the helm in this area, sometimes we see some odd techniques. As a consultant, I've always advised developers NEVER to severely discount to an extreme level -- say 80% because it dilutes the value your brand has, it trains the market not to pay full price and it alienates existing customers who paid full or close to full price. I recommend pricing more realistically instead. But in recent years, we've seen Waves completely destroy any ability to ever make sales at full price again. Only someone completely uniformed would pay full price for a Waves plugin. I love Izotope stuff and have a lot of it, but they've really deeply discounted and trained the market to way for deep discounts. Then we have developers like one that sells soft synths out of Germany -- I won't name names -- but he has ridiculously high regular prices only to have 90% off sales -- I seriously doubt his non-sale prices generate any sales for the business, it's just a scheme. I think that's one of the techniques that I find most annoying. I bought some of the libraries and they're completely meh. But the constant 90% off sales are absurd and more than a bit dishonest.

Okay, I'll go with on this tangent! I did once contemplate a job in AZ and I have a nephew who lives there. I have been there a few times on business. But I don't love the weather. Definitely too hot and dry for me. Where in the midwest? I would imagine that would be a HUGE adjustment. At least it would be for me. Places I'd love to move -- anywhere in New Zealand, Vancover or San Diego.

No need to respond. We already had one diversion into politics, we should get back on track to music anyhow.

I should edit my post above to clarify that I wasn't classifying Spitfire as a small developer. I just meant this problem underscores how much work it is to properly release and maintain a proprietary plugin that even a successful developer like Spitfire can screw it up.

This also underscores why I loathe when small sample developers decide to make their own plugins when even larger developers struggle to be marginally competent. When small developers decide to make their libraries as plugins I'm usually out. It just means another plugin learning curve, another plugin in to maintain and troubleshoot. No thanks. Plus, most of these inexperienced software developers have no idea about user experience design and usability.

I also live in the far western burbs. I grew up on the Southside of Chicago, the son of a cop and police union leader. I've spent a good deal of my life on the Southside and volunteering helping the homeless and food insecure. I lost my closest family member, my youngest sister, to a gangbanger choosing a random victim (a pregnant 26 year old). Sadly, there's a long history of gangbangers and kids with rocks killing drivers on the Dan Ryan. It's a sad, complex problem that's a bit beyond a quick conversation here. But the problem isn't really downtown Chicago, it's in the poorest areas of the city, largely on the south and west sides. When I was in Beijing on business years ago I had my driver take us through the poorest ghettos that the government tried to hide. Sadly, the poorest areas on the Southside of Chicago where most of the gang shootings occur are in worse condition, just depressing. When we start seeing it as all of our problem and not the problem of a certain race of people, I think we'll have a much better chance at solving the problem.

You're not alone. I'm sure most of us in this group have done the same. I know that I sure as heck have.

I can relate to both. We have Comcast, which is the fastest internet service in our area but often unreliable. I don't necessarily hate the snow, but I hate when the temperatures get at 20 degrees or below. Still, I'm not ready for Florida. I'll take San Diego weather. However, I live in Chicago.

I follow that group! Haha. It's very good! Nice job, @Batwaffel!

What I enjoy about this thread is learning how much we all have in common though we may be located in many different places, there's a great deal of commonality amongst us. And a lot of us are trying to spend less money. Of course, this forum is the worst place to be if you're trying to not spend -- it's temptation central. I'm in that same boat trying not to spend much and constantly having to make sure I don't get too tempted. I also find interesting how many of us left music for a while and came back. Same here. Not because I wasn't in love with music. I had a repetitive stress injury that stopped me from playing professionally.

I completely agree and relate to what you both wrote @User 905133 and @Starship Krupa. Historically, I never bothered to download demos and would buy based on good demo songs. But in the last year or so, I've started downloading and trying out demos before buying plugins (when they're available) and it's resulted in keeping me from purchasing plugins I likely would not have used had I purchased them. It's definitely a very good tip.

I have zero personal experience with their libraries but I know more than one very experienced musician and KONTAKT scripter I greatly trust who have told me that their libraries are beyond being salvaged when it comes to scripting, QC and sample quality and strongly urged me not to purchase them a number of years ago -- even at super low prices. All of those insights have greatly been reflected in posts I've seen about this dev by customers on the forums I go to (this one, VI Control and KVR). BTW, this library is constantly on sale at this same price point.

Don't the wrong idea, I just appreciate irony! To each his own. As for me, as I mentioned, I tend to wait to buy until Black Friday, and this one worked out well for me -- I was looking for KONTAKT cello and solo string libraries and found some great deals from Fluffy Audio and 8Dio, so I'm happy. Where do you post your deals at? Just out of curiosity, between Larry's and Reid's posts, I think I have enough to watch!

@cclarryKeep us updated on the situation. I am going to avoid updating until this is resolved.

It is ironic that people who come to a deal forum could be averse to sales. Consider that what drives people to this forum is primarily sales. That's what motivates people to make purchases and that's why it's so common. Some companies, like Waves, in this field really abuse them -- to the point that they absolutely violate FTC regulations -- but the FTC rarely files suits, they keep going. But the impact of Waves doing it is that they've significantly reduced the impact a sales promotion of theirs has over a company that does sales more rarely (and sales more rarely than Waves, I suppose means, only 364 days or less of the year). But consider things from a business owner or CEO's perspective, you need to drive revenue for the month to cover your employee costs, the space you lease or own, etc. A lot of companies in the software industry are trying for the subscription model because it makes revenue more predictable and consistent. But sales motivate consumers to make a purchase, so they're always going to be an effective tool for business. I do find it interesting that Troel's -- who I spoke with years ago and really like -- is such a hardcore promoter (I'd say he has a tendency to over hype / oversell products) has created a new product line where he's not doing promotions or sales. I predict that won't last, knowing how he operates 8Dio over the years. I think it's a bit of a gimmick to be trendy, but I wouldn't give it more than a year before he changes it. Now, I wrote all of that as a marketing and branding strategist. As a consumer, I absolutely appreciate sales and do my best to make purchases of non-essentials like music stuff (I played professionally many years ago, today it's a hobby) around sales. Black Friday and Cyber Monday are where I tend to make a lot of my big purchases. As far as consumers with buyer's remorse -- that's habitual for certain personality types, I would never suggest building a strategy around it. It's not a wise idea. The vast majority of consumers are driven to purchase by time-limited sales. That's an undeniable fact of business.

Yipes, hopefully if we avoid updates for a while the same thing won't happen to other users, I would imagine?