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10 hours ago, User 905133 said:

Let's agree to disagree on all of this. 

 

I disagree that we disagree... ?

4 minutes ago, telecode 101 said:

i am in that boat. i only interested in MODO bass becuase it doesnt use that much space. the others use a ton.

I agree. SampleTank 4 MAX has apparently "jumped the shark" as far as instrument sample storage is concerned. No complaints regarding the quality of these sounds, which are excellent, but it seems like it's time to explore more use of  physical modeling technologies instead of uber sampling. I think we may have reached the limits of what is practical for sampled instruments and storage space in this latest version...

1 hour ago, Paul Young said:

 I think the drive space required for some products intimidate buyers.  Do the Modos require a lot of space,

I glanced at their requirements and they appear to require minimal space (compared to many of their other instruments). Most likely because the MODOs are mostly modeling based rather than sample based.

I was just stating facts that could hopefully help someone that just stumbled onto this thread. Not trying to start a debate.

And I have never seen an instructional video for Cakewalk beginners that  didn't pile on too much up front,  or leave something out. So would agree most of them fall short in some way. IMHO a DAW like Cakewalk isn't really ideal for absolute beginners, because it is so deep. But we all have to start somewhere, and the price of entry is quite attractive to those just starting out. ?

Right, there are some 3rd party instruments that do, but in order to avoid  confusing the matter, the OP's original statement was:

Quote

I'm just trying to get the virtual instruments packaged with the new Cakewalk to record

The Cakewalk bundled instruments do not generate MIDI.

42 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

As for using the plug-in to put down notes, just a guess here, but I suspect because the plug-in can be used to play drum patterns via the pattern selection/transport interface, the plug-in is specifically designed not to record midi and audio by clicking on the drum kit images or the patterns.   

As the plug-in itself is not a MIDI controller.

Available MIDI controllers will show up in the track inspector or track header (including the virtual controller) as the available inputs to a MIDI /Instrument Track. That is where the real-time MIDI input data is routed to the instrument plugin (and MIDI track).

A virtual instrument takes MIDI data in (live or pre-recorded), and generates sound as audio output.

7 hours ago, Geerits HFG said:

Is recording mogelijk van meerdere MIDI tracks tegelijk ?  Als voorbeeld Track 1,2,3 en 10, laastste is ritme.

Translation via Google Translate:

Quote

Can multiple MIDI tracks record simultaneously? As an example, Track 1, 2, 3 and 10, last is rhythm.

43 minutes ago, Fleer said:

Somewhat similar ask here. I’ve got ST4SE plus lots of ST3 add-ons. Should I go for ST4 (regular) or should I not?

Same suggestion. Peruse the comparison list. Lots of nice samples in the MAX, but you may not need/want them all. I got a good deal on the pre-sale crossgrade to MAX from ST3. That was a no-brainer, but cost me a SSD upgrade on my sample drive to accommodate it all.

One thing I could do without are the zillions of relatively anonymous Synth variations, basses, arpeggios, leads, pads, etc. instruments included in MAX (about 1/2 the instrument list, or 20 GB). I already have the full Syntronik, and I find them mostly redundant.

But that doesn't take away from the exclusives to MAX, such as the very nice Stick Basses, Euphoniums, Flugel Horns, French Horns, Tubas, Nylon G guitars, J200 guitars, string Basses, Cellos, Violas, Violins, Alto Saxes, Flutes, the Red Strat Electric Guitar, plus any ST3 extras you may be missing.

Otherwise the ST4 standard edition would offer a very nice upgrade to the SE edition, including the Black Les Paul Electric and a pedal steel guitar.

14 minutes ago, Conjugal Visits said:

For those who have ST4 Max, I have ST3 plus nearly everything made during it's time, and ST4 SE, is the upgrade to ST4 Max worth the $?

I don't know. You be the judge whether you need the extra sounds. I will say some of them are quite good. Here's the comparison:

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/include/st4/soundlist/SampleTank_4_comparison.pdf

5 hours ago, Ken said:

Okay, here's my problem with this entire thread.  People are asking a perfectly reasonable question (albeit, over and over) and getting berated for it.  That's because the answer(s) aren't clear and in some cases are incomprehensible or don't address the ultimate aim of the question.  It's my guess that at least some of the very frustrated people asking this question have gone to YouTube and viewed this tutorial: How to use cakewalk for beginners.   Now, if someone can explain to us how Mr. Simple Green Tech managed to make it work, I'm sure we'll all go away happy.  The problem is, we've followed his directions exactly and it works for him but not for us.  Yeah, we're a bunch of nubes, but we're not stupid.  There's something wrong with Cakewalk when its own virtual instrument plugins play but don't record.

The simple answer is playing the instrument with a mouse does not generate any MIDI data that can be recorded. That function is only for auditioning the sounds, not recording them. In reading through the thread that appears to be an assumption that this should work. It does not.

You can generate MIDI data in real time with an external MIDI controller assigned as input to the track that the instrument is on, as well as by using the Cakewalk virtual MIDI controller or PC keyboard on that instrument track.

Other options instead of recording in real time are to use pre-recorded MIDI loops, or to generate your own MIDI patterns in any of the following: the piano roll view, step sequencer, or staff view. All are time proven methods of recording MIDI for Cakewalk virtual instruments.

4 hours ago, Wibbles said:

Talk of "Help Documentation" and "Manuals" leaves me confused. ?

That's why the guitar was invented. ?

How many other synths use a similar method of sound generation? I think spectral filtering of samples is pretty rare... and for $10 a no-brainer!

From iZotope Iris 2 Help Documentation:

Quote

 

The heart of Iris 2’s Spectral Filtering, this is where you can view your
sample as a Spectrogram (Frequency/Time), Waveform (Amplitude/Time), or combination
of both This is also the area where you can draw filter shapes and modify sample
playback options like loop points and crossfades between those loop points, as well as
playback offset and delay...
 

The spectrogram displays selected parts of the spectrum in a blue/green color, and any
filtered part of the spectrum is represented in grey Selections are made using the tools
listed in the following section You have the option of viewing the spectrogram with rulers
for frequency and time...
 

In addition to the Playback, Pitch Mode, Loop, and Retrigger controls in the sample panel,
there are five sample controls located in the spectrogram area, four of which have visual
indicators on the spectrogram itself All of the numeric value controls for these parameters
are located just beneath the spectrogram, and are represented in samples for maximum
resolution and fine control...
 

Loop Start and End: If you have set your sample to Loop, you may want to adjust the start and
end points for the loop You can adjust these with the two “handles” (indicated by blue arrows)
appearing between the spectrogram and the Waveform Overview By default, Iris 2 engages
our Intelligent Zero Crossing technology when adjusting loop points using these handles
This means that any adjustments you make to the beginning or end of a loop point using the
handles will automatically snap to a phase-coherent zero crossing...

 

Etc.
 

1 hour ago, John Kalabric said:

On your second point, not by name, for VSTi's that do not support the interface. I am not asking for bank and patch changes. Read the OP again.

I read it again, and it's not really clear what you are asking for here. In a earlier post you stated that it was about bank/programs. Then in this latest post you said you are not asking for them. Do you just want to manage patch names?

Quote

Cakewalk is a DAW, not simply an audio editing software. A DAW includes MIDI and audio. Read the docs by Cakewalk, they are full of MIDI refs. How could you say a DAW has nothing to do with MIDI? Even if you don't believe a DAW should have MIDI, obviously the makers of Cakewalk do think its an important part of this software.

You clearly misunderstood the point that what I was trying to make. It's not the DAW's fault if the VSTi doesn't share program info with the host, it's entirely up to the VSTi developer to fix that. That was what I meant by it's not the DAW. It's the plugin. Still MIDI, but the other side of the fence. The only interface for this communication was baked into the MIDI standard decades ago.

You may want to take a look at this project, VST and standalone: https://www.pluginguru.com/products/unify-standard/

It appears to be attempting to do something from the ground up that might be useful for managing VSTi. There is a demo version to play with.

Quote

Cakewalk ( by twelvetone)  was actually a sequencern (i.e. MIDI only) long before it handled any audio. I have been using Cakewalk since v1.0 for windows (a friend had it for DOS before that), then it moved to SONAR by Cakewalk, and now it is Cakewalk again. It has always handled MIDI, and as I said, long before it handled audio.

And I have been using Cakewalk for 20+ years and know all about Twelve Tone when it was MIDI only. I used to sequence external MIDI synths with that originally, so I am quite experienced with MIDI. I have moved on to VSTi at the present time. I generally still mostly do sequencing, and very little audio.

9 hours ago, John Kalabric said:

it has little to do with changing the patch mid-track.

It also has little to do with the DAW. MIDI Bank/Program changes are already available.

5 minutes ago, Grem said:

And if you can believe this, I forgot to use JP when I bought the iRig Mini!! Bruned my ***** up! I mena... how stupid was that!! LOL!

LOL! Sorry bro! ?

On 8/17/2020 at 10:10 PM, locrian said:

Several months ago I spent 3 days downloading Total Studio 2 MAX (over a top-tier CDN), manually running dozens of installers, and then spending hours and hours to get Sample Tank to detect all my content.  After firing it up in my DAW I noticed that one of the products I own (Syntronik Memory-V) was grayed out.  So I went online to download the files but was furious when I saw that my window-of-opportunity had expired and I had to pay to redownload the content.  I own numerous plugins from nearly 150 different companies and none of them charge me to download content.

So, the icon for Syntronik Memory-V remains grayed-out because I will never give IKM another cent of my money.  In fact, I make a point of steering people away from IKM because this type of behavior is not just greedy, it's just plain stupid business practice.  The plugin market is fiercely competitive, so why would any company deliberately piss-off their customers?

In the end, IKM has lost far more than $10 (which they never even got from me).

Hell, rather than a group buy we should run a group sell to get them to change this policy.

I bought the SampleTank 4 MAX crossgrade at the pre-sale price, which was excellent! But I was not prepared disk space wise for the enormous downloads.

So I never got around to downloading many of the sound expansions that I was entitled to.

So recently I did a disk drive upgrade on my system that ran about $200. When I looked at what I was missing from ST4 MAX, I was surprised to learn that the downloads had expired.

So  I paid the $10 for another 180 days. The way I look at it is that $10 spent now was a lot cheaper than $200 that I couldn't afford for a drive upgrade at the time. But I wish that they would change their current policy, as it is stupid.

9 minutes ago, cclarry said:

Sadly, there is really nothing in this group buy for me...
Space Delay, Amp Satch, and the new Clavitube, and only
1 or 2 others, are all that I don't already have,
so even with the freebies it doesn't pan out...for me....

The only thing that really interests me is the Hammond. But nothing else does as far as the potential freebies. I think I'd like to see IK offer equivalent JamPoints for the Group Buy as an alternative to claiming freebies...

5 hours ago, User 905133 said:

How about capturing patch changes when recording midi data during the compositional process: press a button on a keyboard and the patch number gets recorded onto the track.

Yep, I believe that is how it works now, unless you are filtering that MIDI data from the recording. But that patch number would only be useful in the context of the same VSTi loaded with the exact same bank anytime you played back that MIDI track with those changes.

But your VSTi would still have to be coded to recognize MIDI bank/patch changes, else they would be ignored. Some do, and some don't.

15 minutes ago, aidan o driscoll said:

i actually had a similar issue when i got my new AUDIENT EVO 4 Audio U/I last week. It comes with own ASIO drivers. However when I opened CW the audio engine crashed and hung. It turned out that it was both ASIO4ALL and the FL Studio Asio drivers were causing the problem. So uninstalled and no probs after that.

So similar lesson learned

I think ASIO is mostly trouble free if you only have ONE version installed. ASIO4ALL works great on my laptop which just uses on-board audio.

I also ran into a similar issue a few years ago when a Steinberg demo decided to install its own low latency driver unannounced.

16 minutes ago, John Bradley said:

Perhaps I'm coming at this from an entirely different direction, but I'm not sure why anyone would want to send bank and preset numbers to a VSTi.

Live performance?

I vastly prefer the VSTi's I have (e.g. all the Arturia stuff) that present the presets as a single huge searchable library, rather than arbitrarily breaking them up into 32 or 128 entry 'banks' or 'cards' or 'ROMs'  (e.g. the KORG stuff). Though I suppose I could see a point to having the ability to pick favorites from the library and have them as a 'quick access list' sort of thing.

But for what I'm doing at least, I've never wanted to change presets on a VSTi mid track. If I need two different sounds from the same synth, I'd do two instances on two separate tracks. The EQ and other mixing-foo for one preset would almost certainly not be correct for a different preset. Sure, one could automate changes to the EQ and other FX when the preset changes, but I think it'd be easier just to go the "two separate instances" route and not have to do any of that.

Yes I agree, but I just wanted to share how it has already been done. Coming from a MIDI hardware only background, to an in-the-box VSTi only setup, I  no longer have use for bank/program changes. I believe using multiple instances on different tracks is more effective, especially if you are using samplers. The load times could be problematic if you are loading large samples when changing instrument programs on the fly. In the old days, the sample ROM was relatively small in hardware ROMplers.

Just wanted to post this here as a heads-up to anyone who installs the Sound Forge Audio Studio 13.

It comes with a little hidden bonus in the form of a Magix Low Latency ASIO driver named "mgxasio4_x64.dll". ?

If you are only using Windows Audio, you might be OK. But I have audio hardware and a dedicated ASIO driver for that purpose, and an apparent conflict.

I began having issues starting Cakewalk, and a few other programs, that would hang for several minutes attempting to use the Magix ASIO, even though they were set up to use my real ASIO driver.

Unfortunately, MAGIX didn't even ask permission to install, or bother to include an uninstaller for this driver. So I uninstalled Sound Forge Audio Studio 13, and that took care of it.

Apparently you can alternatively hack it away by removing these:
 
Go into the Registry...

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ASIO - delete the Magix Low Latency ASIO driver entry

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\ASIO - delete the Magix Low Latency ASIO driver entry

And then remove this file...

c:\Program Files\Common Files\Magix Services\System\mgxasio4_x64.dll

On 8/9/2020 at 10:42 PM, John Kalabric said:

Well, actually I am talking explicitly about VSTi's which do not really have physical MIDI ports. I know for physical MIDI ports CW already has the feature. I am requesting it to be brought across over to VSTi's as well.

EDIT: Maybe I misread what you were asking. I mean Bank and Patch numbers. Not midi ports.

Interesting proposal. But I believe that this issue, and the solution for bank and patch numbers in virtual instruments lies in the MIDI standard and the VST instrument coding. Cakewalk and other DAWs are already capable of sending standard bank and patch change messages. But the VSTi's must be capable of knowing what to do with the message.

VSTi's can support standard .fxb and .fxp files, with 128 patches per bank, but only if the developer has  incorporated that feature, in addition to whatever proprietary internal patch bank/browser system that was implemented. Sometimes these internal banks can hold thousands of patches, so there is no way to have a one-for-one map to cross reference to .fxb banks.  And each developer usually has a different internal method, as they are virtually free from being bound to the the old MIDI standard for this aspect of patch handling.

The solution is to save your 128 favorite patches as ".fxp" to a custom ".fxb" bank stored in a folder that the plugin dev has accounted for. The dev also has to  code the plugin to accept bank and patch changes.

I initially struggled with this concept as I transitioned from years of using external MIDI instruments, external MIDI ports and cables, instrument definitions, MIDI SysEx transfers, etc.

Here is an example based on the SynthMaster One User Guide.

13 hours ago, Fleer said:

Yeah, but where else can you play that elusive Andromeda, sampled by Mr. Andromeda himself!

You are correct, and I think that one is my favorite! ?

6 hours ago, Vernon Barnes said:

I have the Arturia V collection. The other BIG difference between sampling and modeling is with modeling you can start anywhere and edit the sound to anything that synth could produce. With a sample you are limited. Of course the Lab is also more restricted.  This of course means you are more dependent on the presets in a sample based system, which makes the load times more annoying.

I like the restriction! It keeps me away from needlessly tweaking knobs all day. Sound designers may disagree of course, but the macro knobs are usually enough to play the instrument expressively.

6 hours ago, Vernon Barnes said:

What Syntronic needs is a preview system like NI's NKS,  (or better still be NKS compatible) clicking on the sound in the browser plays an example of the preset so you can decide if you want to load it.

Now THAT would be nice!

4 hours ago, Vernon Barnes said:

I still find elements of Syntronic frustrating, the load times, particularly when browsing and the limited editing but it does sound good and being able to select filter type is handy.

I have the full Syntronik collection, but that is my chief complaint. Click on preset... wait ... load... The loading time for the samples is not the greatest, and I have them all on SSD now.  However the  sound quality is great!

But, I also have the Arturia Analog Lab, and I am finding that auditioning presets in much more enjoyable in that product. Click. Load. Click. Load. I think that is the difference between sampling vs. modeling.