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Why don't Devs make stuff for the Kontakt Player more?  I think I'm in the minority here as NOT having invested in the full version.  Just curious.

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1 minute ago, mibby said:

Why don't Devs make stuff for the Kontakt Player more?  I think I'm in the minority here as NOT having invested in the full version.  Just curious.

I believe it's because of the licensing fee that NI charges developers, which they must then pass on to customers...

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1 minute ago, abacab said:

I believe it's because of the licensing fee that NI charges developers, which they must then pass on to customers...

They charge them for the FREE version - Kontakt Player?

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Posted (edited)

KONTAKT 6 PLAYER AND REAKTOR 6 PLAYER: LICENSING

 

Quote

You give us your product and we encode it for use in the KONTAKT or REAKTOR player. For each product, we ask for a one-off encoding fee of $1,000. 

 

Once we’ve encoded your product and approved it for NKS (the process takes about 2 weeks), you can purchase serial numbers. The price for each serial number depends on the amount of your first order and the retail value of your product (MSRP). There’s a minimum initial order of 100 serial numbers. 

 

You can order additional serial numbers whenever you want. The license price is fixed with the initial order i.e. any additional orders will use the initial license fee throughout the lifecycle of the product. Here too, the minimum amount of serial numbers you can re-order is 100.

 

Edited by Bad Penguin
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6 minutes ago, mibby said:

They charge them for the FREE version - Kontakt Player?

Yep! Extra for the NI Player packaged version...

It costs the developer nothing to package a library for the full Kontakt.

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1 minute ago, mibby said:

They charge them for the FREE version - Kontakt Player?

NI want to make money from Kontakt, just as any business wants to make money from their products: when a Kontakt user uses a Kontakt library, NI wants some money to cover their costs. They can cover the costs from one of two places - the developer, or the end user. When the end user has bought a full Kontakt licence, that is in effect NI making money from the end user. When the end user doesn't have a Kontakt licence, NI can't cover the Kontakt costs from that user, so they get it from the library developer.

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Posted (edited)

Business as usual!!! 🙄

The basterds....

Edited by abacab
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Why use Kontakt at all?  That seems like a steep price to pay for licenses for your OWN product.   Does their development environment make it that much easier?  Is access to the customer base worth it?

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1 minute ago, mibby said:

Why use Kontakt at all?  That seems like a steep price to pay for licenses for your OWN product.   Does their development environment make it that much easier?  Is access to the customer base worth it?

All of the official NI Kontakt libraries, as well as those licensed for the "Player",  will appear in the left-hand Kontakt libraries panel.

Otherwise you will have to use the file browser in Kontakt to find and launch your "full" Kontakt library .nki files. But NI was kind enough to allow you to also utilize the "Quick-load" panel to save these .nki locations for one button access to your "full" Kontakt libraries.  But no F'n libraries panel for them! :)

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, mibby said:

Why use Kontakt at all?

Good question. It's probably mainly due to the scripting that is possible for complex libraries.

Check out Decent Sampler, and the Pianobook libraries that are community sourced sample based instruments for it.

Pianobook was started by Christian Henson of Spitfire Audio (which coincidentally has their own sample player now).

https://www.pianobook.co.uk/sampler/decent-sampler/

 

Edited by abacab
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18 minutes ago, mibby said:

Why use Kontakt at all?  That seems like a steep price to pay for licenses for your OWN product.   Does their development environment make it that much easier?  Is access to the customer base worth it?

The scripting in Kontakt is generally considered to be the best, and NI work on it full time. If a library developer makes their own engine, they are split between their instrument, and their sampling platform. Not to single them out, but think of MNTRA - very innovative instruments, but many  users experience bugs in them, some to the point of them being unusable. I'm sure that the developer is very talented, but they've had to split their focus on the instrument, and the platform.

Consider another scenario. Some people sell premade Excel spreadsheet templates, maybe for keeping financial records, etc. with many built in Macros. Why does one need a license to use Excel to use the spreadsheet that they bought? Why doesn't the spreadsheet developer build their own financial tracking app? Kontakt is the same concept - Kontakt is the platform (i.e. 'Excel'), the instrument is the product running on the platform (i.e. 'the spreadsheet').

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, antler said:

The scripting in Kontakt is generally considered to be the best, and NI work on it full time. If a library developer makes their own engine, they are split between their instrument, and their sampling platform. Not to single them out, but think of MNTRA - very innovative instruments, but many  users experience bugs in them, some to the point of them being unusable. I'm sure that the developer is very talented, but they've had to split their focus on the instrument, and the platform.

Consider another scenario. Some people sell premade Excel spreadsheet templates, maybe for keeping financial records, etc. with many built in Macros. Why does one need a license to use Excel to use the spreadsheet that they bought? Why doesn't the spreadsheet developer build their own financial tracking app? Kontakt is the same concept - Kontakt is the platform (i.e. 'Excel'), the instrument is the product running on the platform (i.e. 'the spreadsheet').

Good analogy! I will add that Kontakt provides a pseudo "operating system" that users are familiar with.

For example, I have some libraries from Spitfire and Orchestral Tools, that each have their own native sample players. I find that I have to learn/re-learn the interfaces for each of these as I use them. It would be more efficient for me if all of them used the familiar Kontakt interface.

Edited by abacab
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, abacab said:

Good question. It's probably mainly due to the scripting that is possible for complex libraries.

Check out Decent Sampler, and the Pianobook libraries that are community sourced sample based instruments for it.

Pianobook was started by Christian Henson of Spitfire Audio (which coincidentally has their own sample player now).

https://www.pianobook.co.uk/sampler/decent-sampler/

 

WOW!  😲  Good stuff. Thanks @abacab and @antler

Sorry,  @Greg Schlaepfer I didn't mean to hijack your thread...  

 

Edited by mibby

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3 hours ago, mibby said:

Why use Kontakt at all?  That seems like a steep price to pay for licenses for your OWN product.   Does their development environment make it that much easier?  Is access to the customer base worth it?

@Mibby KONTAKT differentiates itself from other samplers in a number of ways, especially when it comes to permitting complex scripting far beyond other samplers. That matters an enormous deal for Evolution guitar libraries, which feature very complex scripting.  It's a giant leap from what you can do with other samplers. If you have an Evolution guitar library and play a lead and hit the keys at different velocities and use keyswitches, assign pedals, etc, it's really super impressive and candidly,  fun. 

From a developer perspective is it worth it? If you're a developer and make detailed sample libraries with complex scripting, I find it's a smart choice. KONTAKT has the largest installed user base of any commercial sampler.  Licensing the player, from a developer perspective,  is a more complex matter.  

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The one type of a guitar VI that I can't seem to find, probably no one made it yet or I'm still missing it, is one to make convincing flamenco/gypsy-type of strumming. I tried with Modern Nylon and while it's great for solo lines and some smooth strumming, I couldn't get it to sound good enough when I was trying for that gypsy style. No matter what I was trying, it always lacked some of the sound of a hand beating the strings so typical in this music. I have also Iliya Efimov Nylon Strum and it was close but again, still missing that noise bit in the sound. Hey Greg, maybe a hint for your next library :).

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We are at 1487 and need to reach 1500 in 7 days….seems hopeless hahahah 
 

Greg is awesome :) No IK GB type drama with him.

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34 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

@Mibby KONTAKT differentiates itself from other samplers in a number of ways, especially when it comes to permitting complex scripting far beyond other samplers. That matters an enormous deal for Evolution guitar libraries, which feature very complex scripting.  It's a giant leap from what you can do with other samplers. If you have an Evolution guitar library and play a lead and hit the keys at different velocities and use keyswitches, assign pedals, etc, it's really super impressive and candidly,  fun. 

From a developer perspective is it worth it? If you're a developer and make detailed sample libraries with complex scripting, I find it's a smart choice. KONTAKT has the largest installed user base of any commercial sampler.  Licensing the player, from a developer perspective,  is a more complex matter.  

Thanks Peter - I'm obviously ignorant of samplers/sampling.  All of this this is very interesting and intriguing!

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7 hours ago, chris.r said:

The one type of a guitar VI that I can't seem to find, probably no one made it yet or I'm still missing it, is one to make convincing flamenco/gypsy-type of strumming. I tried with Modern Nylon and while it's great for solo lines and some smooth strumming, I couldn't get it to sound good enough when I was trying for that gypsy style. No matter what I was trying, it always lacked some of the sound of a hand beating the strings so typical in this music. I have also Iliya Efimov Nylon Strum and it was close but again, still missing that noise bit in the sound. Hey Greg, maybe a hint for your next library :).

East West Gypsy

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, chris.r said:

The one type of a guitar VI that I can't seem to find, probably no one made it yet or I'm still missing it, is one to make convincing flamenco/gypsy-type of strumming. I tried with Modern Nylon and while it's great for solo lines and some smooth strumming, I couldn't get it to sound good enough when I was trying for that gypsy style. No matter what I was trying, it always lacked some of the sound of a hand beating the strings so typical in this music. I have also Iliya Efimov Nylon Strum and it was close but again, still missing that noise bit in the sound. Hey Greg, maybe a hint for your next library :).

 

@chris.r  Evolution Django is exactly what you're looking for. 

https://www.orangetreesamples.com/products/evolution-django-jazz

 

Edited by PavlovsCat
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