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User 905133

Take Lanes: "Last Take Priority" [NOT SOLVED; ON HOLD FOR NOW]

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Posted (edited)

  Background (from another thread):

On 6/11/2022 at 1:12 PM, User 905133 said:

In short, when it comes to saving projects with non-last take lanes soloed, there are issues when the project is reloaded.  Also there are issues with displaying non-last takes in staff mode.

On 6/12/2022 at 1:37 PM, David Baay said:

I use lane-soloing frequently to 'promote' the best take  (or bounced mix) which is often not the last take/bounce. I have not seen any issues with this. This should probably be a new thread, but I'm curious what you're seeing.

On 6/12/2022 at 1:44 PM, User 905133 said:

Thanks for for interest.  I will . . . start a new thread. 

  Background (edited from original post from 5/27/2022):

Quote

I just did a basic test of take lanes: 

Track 1: Created a bass line (1 measure + 4 measures looped).
Track 2: Played successive test fillers over measures 2 -> 5.

I haven't used this work flow in several years [and discovered two possible issues]:

  • Last take priority issue:
    • When the basic test project was saved and reloaded,
      • the solo state of the takes was ignored, unless the last take was soloed
    • the soloed take did not play the soft synth (except if it was the last take, in which case the last take played)
    • If the last take is muted, all other takes are muted.
  • Staff View issue:
    • I was unable to see a staff of just the selected take lane.

I have concluded: (1) because I haven't used take lanes in a long while, the results I got might be due to user error or (2) the results might be either (a) expected behavior or (b) quirks.  Since no one seems to have noticed either of these issues, if I explore them further, it will likely be for the sake of my own curiosity.

Are these issues the result of user error and if so, what might I be doing wrong? Or, are these issues expected results based on how Take Lanes/Comping works? 

Update:

  • Issues are still in the original basic test project.  I will have to start fresh and try to replicate it keeping meticulous track of the steps.
  • I forgot to mention explicitly, I am using 100% (with VSTs); no audio.
  • New test variation tried: Split Instrument Track and watched as I soloed different take lanes.
    • The MIDI data changes from the take lane soloed [selected?] gets placed in the Instrument Track's now separated MIDI Track.
      • Not sure that is related to what I have described as "Last Take Priority."  I need to do more testing. 
Edited by User 905133
to prune the post; to add a Preliminary Update

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Well if it’s user error don’t feel bad. I sort have given up on using take lanes for guitar tracks. Seems every time I tried to use them I’d get all messed up and even loose good takes somehow?  
What I do is insert 3 identical audio tracks and just use those just like others would use the lanes. I then kept the first track and drag the better parts from the other two using simple cut and drag. When done I delete the other 2 tracks and everything is perfect and nice and tidy. 
Midi I just wank away in overwrite mode. I like the challenge of playing the part like I’m an actual keyboard player which I am definitely not.  But I come as close as I can to creating an “OK” track and then spend some relaxing quality time in PVR. It one of my favourite pastimes in Cakewalk.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, John Vere said:

Well if it’s user error don’t feel bad. . . . .

Thanks.  Its more like having decided not to use take lanes after first starting to use them several years ago (and liking them), I was optimistic with the solving of the splits issue in the current EA Release.  So if it is user error, to me that's good!!! It means I can start to use take lanes again once I adjust my usage.

There's always my old school method: Use individual midi tracks.  That worked for years, but once I tried take lanes several years ago to test  possible melodies out on top of a bass line, I liked them.  

There's also the possibility of duplicating the track, keeping the original with all the takes, deleting the takes one at a time in the duplicated track until there is one left and then editing the take that remains (via Staff View and/or Piano View).  

If it turns out these are genuine "quirks" that everyone has work arounds for, I already have a few others (such as copying the preferred take, pasting it into a new MIDI track, etc.).

As for the solo state being ignored and the soloed take not sounding upon re-opening, its easy enough to just click the [ S ] button twice and re-solo it that way.  That will take much less time that trying to figure out if its a Workspace issue. Clicking [ S ] twice would be an easy habit to get into.

Thanks for the comments.

Edited by User 905133

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I'd like to suggest that "just how it works" is not, of course, necessarily the same as "how it's supposed to work." 😄

Both require me to figure out why my expectations don't jibe with reality and then adjust my workflow to compensate. But if the "supposed to" isn't true, then I feel a duty to report it and watch for a fix. I've been messing about with the Matrix and really need to hit the Reference Guide and then ask some questions.

3 hours ago, John Vere said:

I sort have given up on using take lanes for guitar tracks. Seems every time I tried to use them I’d get all messed up and even lose good takes somehow?

When was the last time you tried using take lanes for audio? I ask because there was a nasty a few years ago that my newbie flailing helped flush out. It only happened when the user recorded in comp mode with the lanes closed. The last and shortest takes were getting scrambled up at the end of recording, when Cakewalk assembles what it's just recorded into clips.

The audio was getting recorded, but the clips showed long bits of silence that should have contained data. I was new and conflated it with that favorite Cakewalk feature that is currently under adjustment, automatic clip splits. Put the bug and the confusing feature together, combine it with me trying to fix things with the Smart Tool (before it was configurable), it was like trying to run with my shoelaces tied together. I made some miserable messes and wound up having to find the raw WAV's and import them into new tracks. All the time wondering "am I just not getting this process?" 😂

O lord has the configurable Smart Tool made a difference for me. When I want to get my comp on I often use the Comping Tool rather than the Comp function of the Smart Tool, which behave differently from each other. If the automatic clip slicer attacks, a merry swipe of the Smart/Comp tool will set things right. The merry swipe is my workaround, I guess.

(The devs had a hard time understanding what I was talking about because apparently, they all record with their lanes open. Which makes sense, as devs, they probably like to have things set up so they can "keep an eye on them." But especially when I track drums, I close my lanes to reduce screen clutter. Maybe at first they took it as just moaning about the automatic clip cuts.)

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The comp/looping enhancements in EA 2022.06 only affect audio recording at the moment.  We did look at MIDI recording, but there were complications there so we've postponed that for a later release.

The main issue is the automatic cropping of MIDI clips, and creation of new clips when gaps exist in the performance. This then causes extra splits at those points when recording stops.  This behaviour is baked in at a pretty low level, so it's tricky to overcome.

It is on our list of things to sort out though.

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Posted (edited)

I took the two issues I present here out of the EA release post in part because (1) they existed when I rolled back to 2022-02 (i.e,, they are not new to the ER release) and (2) they do not relate to the take lane splitting issue (the focus of the EA release changes).

Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume what I am seeing and calling a "Last Take Priority" as related to soloed takes and the inability to view the just a single take lane's notes in the Staff View and Piano View have nothing to do with the splitting issue.

That being said, thanks for the comments stemming from the "how it works" v. expectations distinction @Starship Krupa and thanks for the  additional details about the forthcoming comp/looping enhancements and items for future consideration @msmcleod .

 

Edited by User 905133
clarifications
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On 6/14/2022 at 5:19 AM, User 905133 said:

I took the two issues I present here out of the EA release post in part because (1) they existed when I rolled back to 2022-02 (i.e,, they are not new to the ER release) and (2) they do not relate to the take lane splitting issue (the focus of the EA release changes).

Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume what I am seeing and calling a "Last Take Priority" as related to soloed takes and the inability to view the just a single take lane's notes in the Staff View and Piano View have nothing to do with the splitting issue.

Confirmed there is an issue with lane soloing in the EA. What I'm seeing is that neither the lane Solo or Mute buttons are functioning for the most recent MIDI take lane when the output is assigned to a soft synth. Tracks that output to physical MIDI ports seem to be working okay. I'm surprised I did not notice this in 22.02. I'll have to roll back and check. I'm fairly confident this was working as expected in earlier releases.

As for the Staff View, it does not have the Hide Muted Clips option that you can use as a workaround in the PRV to see only one take. I believe this has been requested previously. I have also requested that the feature honor muting take lanes as well as clips which would help a lot.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, David Baay said:

 I'm surprised I did not notice this in 22.02. I'll have to roll back and check. I'm fairly confident this was working as expected in earlier releases.

Thanks for taking a look and for your comments @David Baay.  I didn't think to go back to earlier releases.

Using variant saves of the basic test project I created with the EA Release (different *.cwp files with different takes soloed), I just found the same issues in Version 2021.06 (Build 057).  I did not try creating a new project (and variant saves) with the same workflow steps yet.

Edited by User 905133
changed "find" to "to just found"

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

Using variant saves of the basic test project I created with the EA Release (different *.cwp files with different takes soloed), I just found the same issues in Version 2021.06 (Build 057).  I did not try creating a new project (and variant saves) with the same workflow steps yet.

I did the opposite: Rolled back to 22.02 and could not replicate the issue in a new project. I neglected to save the broken project from the EA, but would not be surprised the issue might persist when a broken project is opened in an older release. It seems the state of the last take lane in a MIDI track driving a soft synth is somehow corrupted on creation in the 22.06 EA.

Edited by David Baay

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1 hour ago, David Baay said:

I did the opposite: Rolled back to 22.02 and could not replicate the issue in a new project. I neglected to save the broken project from the EA, but would not be surprised the issue might persist when a broken project is opened in an older release. It seems the state of the last take lane in a MIDI track driving a soft synth is somehow corrupted on creation in the 22.06 EA.

Interesting. I didn't do new project in an older build yet.  I did load the 22.06 EA basic project into last June's release and saved variants with different solo states.  After that I began working on a bass + drum loop groove (in 21.06).  I will add a few more single take layers and then try comping a track with a bunch of test takes.  After saving that I will create some variant files with different takes soloed.

I haven't ruled out that there might be something going on with my settings.  Again thanks for the follow-up.

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