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Jim Fogle

Why No Virtual Acoustic or Electric Guitar?

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46 minutes ago, Jim Fogle said:

@abacab, thanks for the information about PreSonusPro, the Presence XT sampler and the Core sample package.  I'm surprised I wasn't aware of this since Studio One is my brother's DAW of choice.

I see the guitars are part of the Core sample package.  However, this instrument package is not included with the Artist edition but it is included with the subscription version of Studio One or the $399 retail Pro edition.  Since the Presence XT sampler is available in all editions it might would be cheaper to get the Studio One Artist edition and then purchase the acoustic guitar and electric guitars sample packages separately. 

Thanks to everyone for your contributions.

@Jim FogleJust be aware that Presence XT is tied to Studio One, as it's not a VST that can be used in another DAW.

If you go the Presence XT guitar route, the included 'Full' preset variations contain articulations that can be keyswitched. But it's still basically a sampler with guitar samples, and without any virtual guitarist features, like a strummer, chord voicing, etc.

Acoustics: Open, Hammer-on, Mutes, Deads, Harmonics, PlayFX.

Electrics: Open, Legato, Mutes, Deads, Harmonics, Slides, PlayFX.

It's a no brainer to check this out if you already have Studio One Pro, but if you are going to invest extra just for this guitar package, you may want to seriously consider other 3rd party guitar libraries, such as Native Instruments Kontakt Player libraries, or the Ujam virtual guitarists. Orange Tree Samples makes some great guitars that are also compatible with the free Kontakt Player.

 

Edited by abacab

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@abacab I have the free Amplesound acoustic, the Amplesound SC electric  and the no longer available Spicy Guitar.   So I have enough VSTis to get me started with guitar plug-ins.  The main issue is me.

I have trouble concentrating.  Combined with my lack of knowledge of most things musical, beginner's skills with Cakewalk and, I'll freely admit, I'm having the devil of a time getting anything musical out of any of the VSTis  I'm spending more time watching videos to set up the Cakewalk project like I want that I haven't spent much time using a VSTi yet .

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jim Fogle said:

I'm having the devil of a time getting anything musical out of any of the VSTis  I'm spending more time watching videos to set up the Cakewalk project like I want that I haven't spent much time using a VSTi yet .

Ah, OK Jim. Understood. Then I don't really know what to recommend. The built-in instruments in most DAWs generally require a similar learning curve as a VSTi does.  I had assumed  that you were approaching the question from a strictly cost/benefit perspective.

I suppose the old advice of just plugging your instrument into the DAW and recording that to a track still makes great sense as far as musicality is concerned. :)

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On 12/12/2021 at 5:31 PM, Jim Fogle said:

Swatches is new to me.

😲

Jim, I thought with my drooling advocacy of it over in the Freeware Instruments Thread, you would have tried it by now. 😄Almost 600 really useful preset sounds, including some for Strum, their virtual guitar program.

https://www.applied-acoustics.com/swatches/

I'd humbly suggest that you choose one and get good at it, as abacab says, they'll all have learning curves.

I think I have a stray extra license for Strum Session (which used to come with SONAR Platinum) around. If you're interested, PM me. I've used it on a couple of things and it sounds pretty good. It does chord detection, strums, individual notes.

The Strum patches in Swatches can be confusing at first; I finally worked them out and can now use them. Downloading the Strum Session manual helped a lot with that.

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Fyi, cclarry posted this over on the deals forum thread about an Ample Sounds sale.

This player makes me want to burn down my DAW, LOL!!! 😎

 

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On 1/1/2022 at 9:58 PM, abacab said:

Ah, OK Jim. Understood. Then I don't really know what to recommend. The built-in instruments in most DAWs generally require a similar learning curve as a VSTi does.  I had assumed  that you were approaching the question from a strictly cost/benefit perspective.

I suppose the old advice of just plugging your instrument into the DAW and recording that to a track still makes great sense as far as musicality is concerned. :)

@abacab, I greatly appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.  The cost/benefit perspective is always a primary concern for me as I'm sure it is for many users.  My reason for starting this thread was more to make an observation and comment and learn from other perspectives.  I was not looking for recommendations or resources as much as I was wondering out loud, "Why so many stock keyboard instruments and not any guitar instruments in most DAWs"?

In many ways, I believe computer music is returning to it's MIDI roots with more music created using plugin instruments and less music created with an instrument, excluding the greatest instrument of all, a voice.

Music instruction is declining in many middle and high schools.  After hours potential music students may not have the transportation, time or money for private or group lessons.  So many younger people explore music on a computer.

@Starship Krupa, thank you for your kind and generous offer.  I just used the link you provided and downloaded Swatches.

It has been awhile but you and I have had several interesting conversations offline.  I consider you a valuable friend.

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59 minutes ago, Jim Fogle said:

My reason for starting this thread was more to make an observation and comment and learn from other perspectives.  I was not looking for recommendations or resources as much as I was wondering out loud, "Why so many stock keyboard instruments and not any guitar instruments in most DAWs"?

In many ways, I believe computer music is returning to it's MIDI roots with more music created using plugin instruments and less music created with an instrument, excluding the greatest instrument of all, a voice.

Music instruction is declining in many middle and high schools.  After hours potential music students may not have the transportation, time or money for private or group lessons.  So many younger people explore music on a computer.

You make some good points, and I will add some thoughts... :)

MIDI was originally all about keyboards, and MIDI drums, both of which are well suited for input to virtual tone generators for chromatic note on/off triggers and velocity, some expression and modulation.

MIDI only sequencers then became DAWs when they added digital audio recording/editing. So then guitarists, and singer-songwriters were able to jump on the DAW bandwagon from their Tascam tape recorders, to record their compositions via digital audio using their external mics & instruments.

But good virtual instrument guitar playing has always been notoriously difficult to pull off from a keyboard, unless you are very skilled. Chord voicing on a guitar neck is more complex, due to multiple positions on the fretboard where a chord can be played, and thus the same note pitches can appear in multiple locations, unlike a piano keyboard.

So regarding stock DAW instruments, virtual guitar instruments were probably not as much in demand by DAW consumers as were keyboard instruments, except by a some keyboard players that wanted to add guitar riffs to their MIDI compositions.

As far as music instruction, I would think that modern DAWs have made access easier for young people to explore music.

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On 12/15/2021 at 2:57 PM, abacab said:

This video demo of a virtual guitarist doing battle with a real guitarist always cracks me up!

The keyboardist is using a Roli Seaboard with MPE, so that's cheating a little bit, LOL! But he has the technique! :)

 

That controller probably helps a ton with getting realistic bends and vibrato.

On 12/15/2021 at 4:12 PM, abacab said:

The keyboard player, obviously! 😎

The keyboard player has more of a "guitar player face" than the guitar player.

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4 hours ago, Jim Fogle said:

It has been awhile but you and I have had several interesting conversations offline.  I consider you a valuable friend.

Aw, likewise!

Here are some notes on using the Strum GS patches in Swatches:

The trick is to figure out which each articulation does when you press keys. It has 3 modes. Key is just playing guitar notes from the keyboard, the other two do the strumming for you, you choose the chord(s) with key(s) E1-B3 and the strum pattern(s) with another key (C0-B0 or C4-B4). So choose your chord with the left hand and the strumming pattern with a finger on the right hand.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Here are some notes on using the Strum GS patches in Swatches:

The trick is to figure out which each articulation does when you press keys. It has 3 modes. Key is just playing guitar notes from the keyboard, the other two do the strumming for you, you choose the chord(s) with key(s) E1-B3 and the strum pattern(s) with another key (C0-B0 or C4-B4). So choose your chord with the left hand and the strumming pattern with a finger on the right hand.

This reminds me, several months ago I watched what I thought was an excellent tutorial series on the full version of AAS Strum GS-2  (Groove3, Eli Krantzberg). I believe it is free for GS-2 users courtesy of AAS.  I am not sure if it is free for AAS Player/Swatches and Strum Session users.  If so, knowing what's under the hood might be insightful for others as well. You don't have to watch the full set of tutorials which show the editable parameters in the full version.

Edited by User 905133
to insert a missing letter
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On 1/3/2022 at 7:15 PM, abacab said:

Fyi, cclarry posted this over on the deals forum thread about an Ample Sounds sale.

This player makes me want to burn down my DAW, LOL!!! 😎

 

Ah, if we all were as proficient as the musicians that create demonstration files our ears would always be filled with beautiful music.

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