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Starship Krupa

MIDI note names? C0, C1, etc.

Question

I've been demoing Stutter Edit 2, which is an effect that utilizes input from MIDI notes to trigger events. When I play what I think of as C1 on my controller, it registers as C1 in the plug-in.

I'm running into trouble with it in Cakewalk having to do with a seeming discrepancy in MIDI note names: in order to trigger the note labeled "C1" in Stutter Edit, I have to draw a C3 in Piano Roll.

I'm sure there's some way to fix this or work around it in Cakewalk, but I'd also like to understand it. Do different bits of software call these notes by different names? I'm used to C1=MIDI 24 and so on. It seems odd to me that it could diverge by two whole octaves.

When I'm recording MIDI, Cakewalk registers a C1 on the controller as C1 in the Piano Roll.

What's going on here?

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Very comprehensive explanation, Colin. I think it explains why certain soft synths, when I use "bass" patches are either not that bassy or seemingly below the range of human hearing.

And sheesh, for a couple of the companies that founded the MIDI standard in the first place, it makes me wanna clonk their corporate heads together. Once the standard was defined, they did their level best to diverge from each others' efforts to expand upon it, like GS vs. XG. Reminds me of spouses who apparently used the extent of their relationship skills to get married and then develop none subsequent to that. "Got a standard, now it's time to get back to work making working with our stuff harder for other developers."

It would appear that Stutter Edit uses the Yamaha standard (I would have thought during the Roland ownership days, Cakewalk would have had the Roland one thrust upon it). So if I set Base octave to -2 it should start lining up with the plug-in and I can stop getting lost in the MIDI tutorial and focus on getting lost among the plug-ins myriad controls.

(How charmingly quirky that this setting appears under Display rather than say, MIDI.)

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Kind of a drag the base octave setting is global without an ability to override at the plug-in or track level. Maybe it will be part of the new note names feature.

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52 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

How charmingly quirky that this setting appears under Display rather than say, MIDI.

Well, it is a display-only thing. it has no effect on the note events being recorded or transmitted...

 

44 minutes ago, scook said:

Kind of a drag the base octave setting is global without an ability to override at the plug-in or track level. Maybe it will be part of the new note names feature.

That would be nice but would be a problem for viewing multiple MIDI tracks together in one PRV, which I do a LOT. My solution was to have multiple  stickys on my 88-note keyboard. I tried it on my 4.5-octave but hardware transposing puts it all out of wack :D

 

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5 hours ago, Colin Nicholls said:

My solution was to have multiple  stickys on my 88-note keyboard.

Hey, similar to my drum names workaround, writing them on my controller keys with a dry erase marker.

I'm intrigued by Mr. Cook's reference to "the new note names feature." I would indeed love to see such a thing implemented.

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I know I got an answer to my question, but I just wanna vent here: I've been wading deeper into the glitchy waters of Stutter Edit 2 and MRhythmizer and this discrepancy between how they and even other DAW's designate note names is driving me nuts as I try to switch back and forth. I can see how NASA screwed the pooch on that unmanned probe by having one engineer calling out a dimension in centimeters and having the probe part built in inches.

I set "Base octave for pitches" to -2 to get Stutter Edit 2 and Cakewalk to agree, so I could put in a C1 in the Piano Roll and have it register as C1 in SE2. This got me through my Producertech Stutter Edit course without clawing at my head.

Now, if I have a MIDI note that Cakewalk calls "C1," Stutter Edit will respond to it as C1, but MRhythmizer thinks the note is C2.

Trying to get my head around this: the reason I can play a middle C on my controller and the sound that comes out will always be middle C in a software piano or organ is because my controller doesn't care about this C-whatever-number, it's just sending the number 60 to my interface, which is passing it to Cakewalk, which is passing it to the synth, which knows what pitch to play when it gets a 60. They speak in whole numbers from 0-127 and that's that.

Where it comes unraveled is that these plug-ins are doing something other than playing a note, they're launching their sequences or gestures or whatever based on what note they receive and they label their slots the C1, D1 way. Which it turns out, is not an absolute like 0-127 is.

So if I want both Stutter Edit and MRhythmizer to agree, then I guess I need to put that Cakewalk Transpose MIDI FX plug-in on the MIDI track. 

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Can you also not use an Articulation Map so it's clearer and you can create per FX/instrument ones?

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Posted (edited)

Another workaround is the midi tab in the inspector. Under the arpeggio there is this "key" and "time". Set the key to 12 to transpose up 1 octave, 24 for 2 octaves.

I don't know If this setting is persistent for a project. I just stumbled upon it when i tested related things.

Added: This means that all notes entering this track is transposed. And each track can have its own transposition.

Edited by Kurre
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Thanks, lads.

@Kevin Perry, that's a good excuse to dig into Articulation Maps, which I haven't done since they appeared.

@Kurre, I thought that there must be a way to do something like this. Thanks!

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