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Craig Reeves

Audiosnap and other workflow issues

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Bug fixes breaking other features mostly occur because its very difficult if not impossible to test for regressions in all dependencies, rather than something irreversibly broken by a change. 

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On 2/13/2021 at 5:42 PM, solarlux said:

CAL scripts are obsolete and they are not developed anymore i think in futrure they will make better option for this than CAL script.

While CAL, as a language, has not been maintained for many many many many years, it DOES still work, and I write little scripts. or modify existing ones as needed, for little things that come up now and then, for which a script would come in handy.

For example, I just wrote a little CAL script to help me edit MIDI data for drum tracks, where I had created the MIDI track using one drum library and its set of drum synth note numbers,  and I wanted to switch to a different drum library that I liked better, which used different MIDI note numbers.  While there are lots of ways of doing many things, I chose to whip up a little CAL script to allow me to enter one MIDI note number, and also enter a replacement MIDI note number, and the script would sweep the selected MIDI track/clip and replace all occurrences of the 1st entered note number, with the 2nd entered note number.  Works like a champ, and I use the script whenever I replace one drum library with another.  Yes, I could have done it using different methods - I just felt like doing it with a CAL script, and all is well.

Another example - I have MIDI files for numerous pop songs, that I downloaded, where the entire score, for example, is written in the key of C.  Unfortunately, that also includes the staves for instruments that are not tuned to a standard 'C' tuning (alto saxophone is an Eb instrument, trumpet is a Bb instrument, etc).  SO, I wrote a CAL script to do custom transposition from whatever the starting key is, either up or down whatever number of helf-steps I enter, and then when I import the modified MIDI file in a notation program, even the free ones, it properly notates that MIDI track for the correct tuning for the associated instrument.  In most cases, this is something I do for a friend of mine's wife, as she plays alto sax.

I have a bunch of CAL documentation and example scripts, if anybody wants them - even a CAL editor.  Just shoot me a private message with an email address and I will happily send you what I have.

Bob Bone

 

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17 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

I'm gona try and help @Craig Reeves here. 

Go to preferences/Configuration file undwr the Audio Tab. On that window scroll down to Thread Scheduling Module and Switch it's value to 3 "Aggressive" for more stability. 

The aggressive value utilizes more efficient task management that can result in better multi-processing in the daw. 

When you're done with that, scroll up to AutomationDecimationMsec and change it that from 50 to 2 or 5. Personally, mine is set on 2.

I know in RnB and in Pop we do a lot of Automation and we don't want the nodes to get quantized accidentally later in the project and having things sounding weird.  

This should help making things easier in your workflow. I do a lot of automation where I'm riding crazy on the compressor to smooth out things - especially in EDM and Future Bass projects I get and that always caused issues with Cakewalk crashing at some point. Since changing the Thread Scheduling Module value to aggressive hardly any issues. 

It's worth testing out. 

Yeah - I will concur with the other person that cautioned against using a ThreadSchedulingModel value of '3'.  Noel had indicated, many months back, that we should NOT be using the aggressive mode (value of 3), because it was still a work in progress, and not stable.

The default for that parameter is 1, and for most computers, you will likely benefit from changing that value to '2'.

Here is a screenshot of setting that in Preferences, and you can always modify it back to a value of '1', if any issues arise with it set to '2'.

Screenshot below - Bob Bone

image.png.899ce5af34db2104867e261c08b7fa5c.png

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It is also important - and required by the terms of service for these forums, that we all be respectful of each other, and let's also all remember that we are indeed all on the same team, so let's make sure to remain positive and courteous in our posts, so us forum host folks don't have to wade into some flame war between folks.  Try to resist arguing with folks, or escalating post wars - it is for the best, and certainly helps keep these forums the helpful place as intended.

Just everybody be kewl, stay kewl, and live kewl.  :)

Bob Bone

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On 2/13/2021 at 5:15 PM, Craig Reeves said:

Cakewalk is the buggiest major DAW and it's not even close. There is a reason Cakewalk failed as a commercial product even against more limited DAWs like Reaper and FL Studio and I can't imagine this not being at least one the reasons. It's unacceptable and embarrassing.

I get that's it's free but it was actually WORSE in the past when it wasn't free.

A lot of us feel that way.

I understand being a big supporter of a product but I think it's offensive when people immediately put others down and show absolutely no empathy at all when someone vents their frustration. It isn't like we all haven't done it at some point ... lighten up. (Not talking to the OP)

I used to get incredibly frustrated because way back when I was working I only had a few hours on the weekends to record and blow of steam. I spent 99% of my limited time trying to get Sonar to be stable. I once offered to box up my audio interface, PC, and cables and ship to Boston in an effort to see if they could make it work. The offer was declined.

Since the stock answers always seem to be just avoid doing what you're doing and it's you not the software then maybe you need a change of scene? A lot of us went to Presonus Studio One Professional when the Sonar X series arrived. Craig Anderton writes really good how-to and tips-tricks articles for Presonus that come up on the start page of S1 a lot. I think every Friday iirc?? You can try out the full pro version of S1 and everything they offer for 30 days at a time for a small fee or try a limited demo of just S1. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using more than one DAW. I find myself switching between CbB and S1 regularly.

Good luck.

Edited by Shane_B.
Typo.
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1 hour ago, Robert Bone said:

Yeah - I will concur with the other person that cautioned against using a ThreadSchedulingModel value of '3'.  Noel had indicated, many months back, that we should NOT be using the aggressive mode (value of 3), because it was still a work in progress, and not stable.

The default for that parameter is 1, and for most computers, you will likely benefit from changing that value to '2'.

Here is a screenshot of setting that in Preferences, and you can always modify it back to a value of '1', if any issues arise with it set to '2'.

Screenshot below - Bob Bone

image.png.899ce5af34db2104867e261c08b7fa5c.png

Three years and not a single problem in using the aggressive value. I hear what you say though, like you can always set it to it's default Value of two if it doesn't work on you system. 

I wanted maximum use of my engines. 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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On 2/13/2021 at 6:26 PM, Craig Reeves said:

Cakewalk clearly doesn't work for a lot of people which why hardly anyone uses it anymore. I want to see that change. Cakewalk has a ton of potential and I don't like seeing it go to waste. And I've used Cakewalk for 21 years so I'm in the same boat. Literally the only real tragic flaw of Cakewalk for decades has been its instability and numerous bugs.

I can say all kinds of negative things about America, but that doesn't mean I don't love America and want to move to another country. I hate when people say stuff like this. Nobody ever addresses these kinds of problems and anybody who expresses legitimate concerns with this product is bullied into leaving. This kind of behavior isn't helpful to Cakewalk.

I'm sorry for setting this thread off in the wrong direction with my reply, Craig. I didn't realize what level of user you are, nor did I mean anything when I suggested you go back to Abelton. I thought I saw that you were an Abelton user in the initial post.

I agree that Cakewalk has bugs. I can still crash it, but it's hard to point the finger at Windows, Cakewalk, or the writer of the old 32 bit VST or VSTi I have loaded. As a user, I just learn from experience and try not to do the things that "set it off" and make it crash. In Home Studio 2004, I used to have to save every time I hit record!

Whether there are more or less crashes in CW than in other DAW software is undetermined. I'd like someone who has used all the buggy DAW softare out there to list the problems and maybe we could determine where Cakewalk stands in the group.

In the meantime, I appreciate how you've defended your argument and how Noel and the guys/gals have tried to respond. Continue the dialogue.

Tim

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Where i

57 minutes ago, timboalogo said:

I'm sorry for setting this thread off in the wrong direction with my reply, Craig. I didn't realize what level of user you are, nor did I mean anything when I suggested you go back to Abelton. I thought I saw that you were an Abelton user in the initial post.

I agree that Cakewalk has bugs. I can still crash it, but it's hard to point the finger at Windows, Cakewalk, or the writer of the old 32 bit VST or VSTi I have loaded. As a user, I just learn from experience and try not to do the things that "set it off" and make it crash. In Home Studio 2004, I used to have to save every time I hit record!

Whether there are more or less crashes in CW than in other DAW software is undetermined. I'd like someone who has used all the buggy DAW softare out there to list the problems and maybe we could determine where Cakewalk stands in the group.

In the meantime, I appreciate how you've defended your argument and how Noel and the guys/gals have tried to respond. Continue the dialogue.

Tim

 

4 hours ago, Robert Bone said:

While CAL, as a language, has not been maintained for many many many many years, it DOES still work, and I write little scripts. or modify existing ones as needed, for little things that come up now and then, for which a script would come in handy.

For example, I just wrote a little CAL script to help me edit MIDI data for drum tracks, where I had created the MIDI track using one drum library and its set of drum synth note numbers,  and I wanted to switch to a different drum library that I liked better, which used different MIDI note numbers.  While there are lots of ways of doing many things, I chose to whip up a little CAL script to allow me to enter one MIDI note number, and also enter a replacement MIDI note number, and the script would sweep the selected MIDI track/clip and replace all occurrences of the 1st entered note number, with the 2nd entered note number.  Works like a champ, and I use the script whenever I replace one drum library with another.  Yes, I could have done it using different methods - I just felt like doing it with a CAL script, and all is well.

Another example - I have MIDI files for numerous pop songs, that I downloaded, where the entire score, for example, is written in the key of C.  Unfortunately, that also includes the staves for instruments that are not tuned to a standard 'C' tuning (alto saxophone is an Eb instrument, trumpet is a Bb instrument, etc).  SO, I wrote a CAL script to do custom transposition from whatever the starting key is, either up or down whatever number of helf-steps I enter, and then when I import the modified MIDI file in a notation program, even the free ones, it properly notates that MIDI track for the correct tuning for the associated instrument.  In most cases, this is something I do for a friend of mine's wife, as she plays alto sax.

I have a bunch of CAL documentation and example scripts, if anybody wants them - even a CAL editor.  Just shoot me a private message with an email address and I will happily send you what I have.

Bob Bone

 

Where i can search for CAL scripting language?

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1 hour ago, timboalogo said:

Whether there are more or less crashes in CW than in other DAW software is undetermined. I'd like someone who has used all the buggy DAW softare out there to list the problems and maybe we could determine where Cakewalk stands in the group.

I just looked in my Presonus account. I've been using Studio One in one form or another since January 17 2011. Over 10 years.

My old DAW was a lower end i5 with 4GB RAM. Sonar would crash on it multiple times a session. With the same exact 32bit and 64bit VST's, SF2's, same exact external hardware Studio One crashed 0 times in 5 years of usage on my old DAW. Eventually the HDD failed and everything stopped working but I was running S1 off of one of those little tiny flat memory chips used in camera's connected to an external USB reader and using extra's of those cards to store projects and samples on.

Since I built my new DAW going on 5(?) years ago now (see my sig) S1 has crashed 0 times. X2 won't even open on my new system and CbB crashed on me the other day twice. But it is extremely rare CbB crashes for me and I have no trouble with the Pro Channel now at all like I did in X2. The Pro Channel would actually turn itself on and off back before it had an on/off button in X1 and X2 and become unresponsive. I had X1 and X2 set to autosave every 60 seconds. That's how much it crashed. I have no reservations about using CbB whatsoever like I did with X2 and I don't even have autosave set up in CbB. I fully expect all software to crash at one point or another so I consider CbB to be just as stable as S1 seeing how I can count on 1 hand the amount of times CbB has crashed on me. It's rock solid for me how I use it on my PC. 👍

So there's a real world comparison from a single user. fwiw.

Edited by Shane_B.
Fixed typo.
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32 minutes ago, solarlux said:

Where i

 

Where i can search for CAL scripting language?

Shoot me a private message with an email address, and I will send you what I have on the CAL language

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My Copy of S1 (pro 3.5.6) locked up several times. In the Presonus Forum are many users with small and serious problems, as well as in any other forum. I had minor issues with Sonar, CbB is stable and quick. Looks like I'm a lucky guy.  And Some years  ago Cubase was buggy like hell. So, I'm with Craig Anderson, Software will have bugs,  nothing   sensational. No need for Drama. Especially not, when it becomes better and better.

One thing is interesting to me: I mean, I'm  (we are?) flexible with software, with DAWs, aren't we?  When I look at this 4 Vids from OP, first is CAL, I'll skip that, then automation bug and Audio Snap. Ok, that is two bugs that is fine to report to make CbB better.

But The last Vid - Copy / Cut /Paste - Thing  -- I didn't discover it, but if I had, I wouldn't think of it as a bug. I wouldt just look how to live with it. May be I'm wrong and it is better, to adress this as a bug  to make CbB better. I don't know, but to me, it's astonishing to make a Vid out of that, I wouldt not spend the time and effort into that.

Ok, I'm willing to learn. 

But after all - it's my deep conviction, there's no need for Drama, no Armageddon in sight.  And I'm tired of these comparisons with other DAWS. We all use  multiple and different  DAWs, so what the f**k - the main differences between DAWs are not the Number of Bugs but the way you can work with it. When building a house I don't use only one screwdriver, I have a toolbox with a lot of them. Hans Zimmer once said:" The best DAW is the one you can work with"  ---  

BTW - if you have a passion for  buggy software  try some Video Apps . . . . . aaaannnnd action - Drama Baby, Drama, Drama, Baby . . . . . .

Edited by mkerl
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3 hours ago, mkerl said:

My Copy of S1 (pro 3.6) locked up several times.

Interesting. Seeing how the Studio One Professional 3 release only went up to version 3.5.

😁

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6 hours ago, Shane_B. said:

Interesting. Seeing how the Studio One Professional 3 release only went up to version 3.5.

😁

My fault. Release number is 3.5.6.46910 Built Mar 20 2018

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1 hour ago, mkerl said:

My fault. Release number is 3.5.6.46910 Built Mar 20 2018

That release is a couple of years old. Have you tried the latest update? 😉

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3 minutes ago, abacab said:

That release is a couple of years old. Have you tried the latest update? 😉

I'm still using 3.5.6.46910. I skipped 4 and just signed up for Sphere for a month and started using 5 last week. It has some new really nice features compared to 3.5.

I will say one thing has changed that I don't like that goes way back. When booting up it used to take less than 3 seconds from the time I clicked the S1 icon till I got to the start page. Something happened a long time ago during the early days of 3 and now it hangs for about 10 seconds or so when it hits the Melodyne loading part. I contacted both parties and neither knows why. They say it shouldn't happen. I've even done a fresh install of my system to fix it thinking something got corrupted and nope. Something changed and that's just how it is now on my system. Others have checked for me and are not experiencing that. So there is one problem that kind of stinks.

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26 minutes ago, abacab said:

That release is a couple of years old. Have you tried the latest update? 😉

No, I don't have.

May be I'll do, when I've got some more time left. CbB and Cubase are both stable on my system, so there is no need to change.

There is one thing I don't like with Presonus: Most if not all of their instruments are not VST, you can only use them in S1. They are building their own, exclusive planet, while I can use for example zta3 in other DAWs, or Steinberg Halion SE as a starter for different instruments outside Cubase. I prefer to use my  instruments in all of the DAWs I use. It would be great to use Groove Agent in CbB too, but ok, it's not a perfect world . . . . 

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@Craig Reeves Just taking a look through your videos, and I think there's some workflow steps missing when trying to use AudioSnap. When you demonstrate turning it on, you've already got AudioSnap set to "Clip Follows Project" in the palette which is not an option that's turned on by default. While AudioSnap isn't perfect, you should be able to accomplish what you're trying to do if you follow the right workflow steps (I did this for a project I was working on the other day). You need to make sure that you have the proper average tempo per clips set, then the Clip Follows project option set to Auto-Stretch. If you're having trouble beyond that, I'd need to see your project file to see how it's handling your material specifically, but the core essence of the stretching should work. As shown in your video, I think there's other settings that need to be adjusted. Groove Clip stretching is actually the oldest and least accurate sounding algorithm. 

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20 minutes ago, mkerl said:

No, I don't have.

May be I'll do, when I've got some more time left. CbB and Cubase are both stable on my system, so there is no need to change.

There is one thing I don't like with Presonus: Most if not all of their instruments are not VST, you can only use them in S1. They are building their own, exclusive planet, while I can use for example zta3 in other DAWs, or Steinberg Halion SE as a starter for different instruments outside Cubase. I prefer to use my  instruments in all of the DAWs I use. It would be great to use Groove Agent in CbB too, but ok, it's not a perfect world . . . . 

You can use most of their VST's in any DAW just not their synth. You have to install an add-on called Presonus Hub to do it.

That said, there are plenty of things that came with Sonar that were locked to Sonar. Not everything was usable outside of it. CbB just doesn't include those any more.

And like you said, just use something else and stop complaining. Go use a different screwdriver.

Edited by Shane_B.

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5 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

@Craig Reeves Just taking a look through your videos, and I think there's some workflow steps missing when trying to use AudioSnap. When you demonstrate turning it on, you've already got AudioSnap set to "Clip Follows Project" in the palette which is not an option that's turned on by default. While AudioSnap isn't perfect, you should be able to accomplish what you're trying to do if you follow the right workflow steps (I did this for a project I was working on the other day). You need to make sure that you have the proper average tempo per clips set, then the Clip Follows project option set to Auto-Stretch. If you're having trouble beyond that, I'd need to see your project file to see how it's handling your material specifically, but the core essence of the stretching should work. As shown in your video, I think there's other settings that need to be adjusted. Groove Clip stretching is actually the oldest and least accurate sounding algorithm. 

Cakewalk works very good i think problem is new users mostly trying to achieve something with wrong workflow. They used other DAW and they have habbits from other DAWS. : )

Edited by solarlux
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18 hours ago, Shane_B. said:

A lot of us went to Presonus Studio One Professional when the Sonar X series arrived. Craig Anderton writes really good how-to and tips-tricks articles for Presonus that come up on the start page of S1 a lot. I think every Friday iirc?? You can try out the full pro version of S1 and everything they offer for 30 days at a time for a small fee or try a limited demo of just S1. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using more than one DAW. I find myself switching between CbB and S1 regularly.

I added the Italics above for emphasis. (And yes, I do a new tip for Studio One every Friday, like I used to do for Sonar.) Sonar, Ableton Live, and Studio One all came out around the same time.  I've been using all of them regularly since their initial releases. Because I write books and such I also use Digital Performer (underrated), Pro Tools (closest DAW to a 2" 24-track with mixer), Cubase (can do just about anything, the challenge is figuring out how), Acid Pro (kudos to Magix for not giving up), and Samplitude (the only program other than Studio One that does mastering well). They all have strengths and weaknesses, and each one is ideally suited for certain types of projects.

It's really not that hard to become proficient on multiple DAWs, they have more similarities than differences in how they work. Regarding the cost of multiple programs, remember I was raised on tape - so the expense is less than what a 4-track TEAC cost me back in the day! And I don't have to buy tape, LOL.

What's different is the applications to which DAWs are best suited.  It's the same reason for having multiple guitars. Some songs want beefy humbuckers, some a 12-string, some a Tele twang, some a glassy Strat sound, and of course, some want a Variax :)

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