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Billy86

Need help from Midi Gurus: 1/4" out to MIDI converter?

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Not sure if this is possible. I have an acoustic guitar with 1/4" out. Is it possible to capture a performance as MIDI by using some sort of 1/4"-to-MIDI converter cable/junction box? What I'm trying to accomplish is ditching the audio while maintaining my strum performance as MIDI data to trigger a VST instrument, such as the Orange Tree Samples 6 string.  Programming strum patterns is a huge PITA in any VST I've ever seen.  I have Melodyne editor; not sure if that would figure into an equation like this?

I know about the JamStix MIDI guitar, but it's $700 that I don't have to spend. Also, companies like Fishman have an add-on, but it's also expensive. I'm wondering if there's a more affordable way with a cable converter or something along those lines.

The VST guitars I have have beautiful tone, which I just can't capture in my set up. So, my strumming pattern(s), converted to MIDI data to trigger VST guitars. Doable? 

Thanks!  

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Capture the audio and use Melodyne to convert to MIDI. Do you have the polyphonic version? There is also Jam Origin. It converts audio to MIDI. I haven't tried it.

https://www.jamorigin.com/

 

Edited by rsinger
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Basically it cost money to do it right. The Fishman triple play etc. I have a Godin guitar with the built in  HEX pick up system and can send midi via my Roland  GR 50 guitar synth module. But that system new would be well over $2,000. Anyhow, It still doesn't result in a "guitar strumming" midi track much better than just using the built in strums found on Strum Session.  Midi is just not THAT organic. Requires heavy editing to fix all the glitches. 

The trouble with guitar to midi no matter what the system is you have to play very, very precisely and clean with perfect pitch and picking attack . The pitch to midi conversion in real time demands a lot of processing power. It works like a guitar tuner. You probably have one and realize that you need to feed most of them a clean note for them to work.  Especially the cheap ones.  

I find it works best for simple one note melodies, but Melodyne will do this for free. But you need the Studio version to edit chords and it's not cheap. 

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2 hours ago, John Vere said:

Basically it cost money to do it right. The Fishman triple play etc. I have a Godin guitar with the built in  HEX pick up system and can send midi via my Roland  GR 50 guitar synth module. But that system new would be well over $2,000. Anyhow, It still doesn't result in a "guitar strumming" midi track much better than just using the built in strums found on Strum Session.  Midi is just not THAT organic. Requires heavy editing to fix all the glitches. 

The trouble with guitar to midi no matter what the system is you have to play very, very precisely and clean with perfect pitch and picking attack . The pitch to midi conversion in real time demands a lot of processing power. It works like a guitar tuner. You probably have one and realize that you need to feed most of them a clean note for them to work.  Especially the cheap ones.  

I find it works best for simple one note melodies, but Melodyne will do this for free. But you need the Studio version to edit chords and it's not cheap. 

Hey @John Vere

I've got the Godin LGXT. Which one do you have? (I have the same guitar synth too)

Edited by razor7music

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14 minutes ago, razor7music said:

I've got the Godin LGXT. Which one do you have? (I have the same guitar synth too)

I've got one as well.

22892_lgxt_black.jpg

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4 hours ago, rsinger said:

Capture the audio and use Melodyne to convert to MIDI. Do you have the polyphonic version? There is also Jam Origin. It converts audio to MIDI. I haven't tried it.

https://www.jamorigin.com/

 

One of the forum members @kennywtelejazz here swears he has gotten good results with Jam Origin MIDI Guitar.

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5 hours ago, rsinger said:

Capture the audio and use Melodyne to convert to MIDI. Do you have the polyphonic version? There is also Jam Origin. It converts audio to MIDI. I haven't tried it.

https://www.jamorigin.com/

 

Wow. This looks interesting. Polyphonic capture would be the thing.  Will explore, starting here: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/jam-origin-midi-guitar. Thanks. 

 

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1 hour ago, abacab said:

One of the forum members @kennywtelejazz here swears he has gotten good results with Jam Origin MIDI Guitar.

Hi. I have Melodyne Editor, which IS a polyphonic version, although I've never tried anything like what I'm talking about. I'd want to "get rid of/delete/ignore?" the audio portion of my strumming performance and keep only the strumming "triggers" if that's what they're called, so I can trigger acoustic guitar VSTs. Will have to explore this. 

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2 hours ago, razor7music said:

Hey @John Vere

I've got the Godin LGXT. Which one do you have? (I have the same guitar synth too)

 

5 hours ago, John Vere said:

Basically it cost money to do it right. The Fishman triple play etc. I have a Godin guitar with the built in  HEX pick up system and can send midi via my Roland  GR 50 guitar synth module. But that system new would be well over $2,000. Anyhow, It still doesn't result in a "guitar strumming" midi track much better than just using the built in strums found on Strum Session.  Midi is just not THAT organic. Requires heavy editing to fix all the glitches. 

The trouble with guitar to midi no matter what the system is you have to play very, very precisely and clean with perfect pitch and picking attack . The pitch to midi conversion in real time demands a lot of processing power. It works like a guitar tuner. You probably have one and realize that you need to feed most of them a clean note for them to work.  Especially the cheap ones.  

I find it works best for simple one note melodies, but Melodyne will do this for free. But you need the Studio version to edit chords and it's not cheap. 

I've got Melodyne Editor, which will handle polyphony, so I guess it's down that rabbit hole! I just want to capture the strumming "triggers" to play acoustic VSTs.

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11 minutes ago, John Vere said:

https://godinguitars.com/product/xtsa-lightburst-flame

The XTsa I also have the Godin 5 string Bass. They actually belong to my son but spend more time at my place than his. We both have way to many guitars and we're not done yet. 

 

I just downloaded the Jam Origin MIDI guitar and give it a try tonight. 

 

Godins.jpg

Cool. Would love hear your experience with Jam Origin, particularly it's performance handling strumming (polyphony). 

Edited by Billy86
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47 minutes ago, John Vere said:

https://godinguitars.com/product/xtsa-lightburst-flame

The XTsa I also have the Godin 5 string Bass. They actually belong to my son but spend more time at my place than his. We both have way to many guitars and we're not done yet. 

 

I just downloaded the Jam Origin MIDI guitar and give it a try tonight. 

 

Godins.jpg

I'm not a guitar player, but do have a bass. Kenny told me about Jam Origin because it has a bass version, and I was asking him if it would do bass.

I believe if you buy it, you get both versions.

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@abacab  Yes you get both versions for $100 US   The demo is free to try. Real easy to download and install. I like companies like this, Didn't even have to hand out my email , no log on,, no strings attached . 

The demo interrupts playback at random,, seems like 2 minutes or more. But I think everything functions. 

First the stand alone version: 

It seems well designed and you certainly get a lot of features that are advanced. Like it scans your existing plug ins and you can use them?? I couldn't get that to work , just kept getting errors this might be a demo thing. It plays the demo piano patch sort of OK with massive delay even at 32 buffer setting. I'm hearing at least a 20 ms delay.  And the CPU icon was flashing a yellow warning. If I set my buffer back to 128 the warning stopped but now you can play a note and go get a coffee and come back before it plays. Mabey my systems sucks so would be interesting to see if others can make this thing play in stand alone.  I didn't totally a failure.  

As a VST inside Cakewalk: 

Well weirdly enough the latency is OK when you stick this in a Audio tracks effects bin.  If you set the mixer to wet you get a recording of what ever instrument you were triggering and it's just a hair bit late but that could be fixed.. I recorded an audio track of the electric piano patch and its glitchy but this is not what I would be doing anyhow. 

So what you need to do is enable it's midi output.  This works as planned. I then can choose the MG2 as a input to a midi track or instrument track and record the audio as midi. This is of course pointless if you have Melodyne Studio or better but I only have Assistant so can do polyphonic So I either put my $100 towards upgrading Melodyne or buy this. It's certainly a fun toy. But disappointing about the stand alone which would make it more useful. 

Edited by John Vere

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The setup in CbB is fairly easy. Add the plug-in to an audio track, enable MIDI Output in the drop down above the plug-in UI and the plug-in appears in instrument and MIDI track input drop downs. From there it works just like any MIDI controller.

There were a couple of lengthy threads on the old forum about MIDI Guitar starting with when it was released as a beta through v2.

How well the software tracks depends on the guitar and playing style.

I doubt it will work well with an an acoustic guitar regardless of how the signal is captured but a little time with the demo should answer that question.

There is no demo of the plug-in, the demo is the standalone version but that should be adequate to see if the product is for you.

The standalone (and the plug-in for that matter) can host soft synths or send MIDI data to the DAW using a virtual MIDI cable.

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Here is a link to a tune by Kenny that he played guitar and guitar synth on. Nice example of good playing and excellent result!

 

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18 hours ago, rsinger said:

I've got one as well.

22892_lgxt_black.jpg

I've got the AAA maple top trans blue. My mother bought it for me before she passed away. Great guitar!!

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15 hours ago, Billy86 said:

... I just want to capture the strumming "triggers" to play acoustic VSTs.

check out some CAL scripts to strip out the majority of notes - i've used the "lowest note only" script (i'll have to see if i can remember the exact name) to strip out the chord info and leave only the bottom notes which then if transpose as needed for the strumming mode. lately i just play the single note on the guitar or keyboard to get the strumming.

i've found the Session Guitarist very nice but you tend to have to play it differently than GS-2 because the SG are using sampled playing and the strums don't always end once the note is off - a good thing in many cases, whereas GS-2 is synthetic all the way so it's more responsive. key switching is also important to consider. i tend to do the key switching as i play it out on my keyboard rather than waiting for later. depends of course on what my source is - if existing or already performed strumming - CAL script or manual edits, otherwise i just play it intending to use a virtual instrument.

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16 hours ago, Billy86 said:

Hi. I have Melodyne Editor, which IS a polyphonic version, although I've never tried anything like what I'm talking about. I'd want to "get rid of/delete/ignore?" the audio portion of my strumming performance and keep only the strumming "triggers" if that's what they're called, so I can trigger acoustic guitar VSTs. Will have to explore this. 

I haven't tried any of the guitar vsts so I have no idea how they work. I've used Melodyne Editor on bass guitar lines. I've converted a few to MIDI and then turned those into groove clips. That's pretty straight forward. 

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I would imagine that in addition to playing style, that playing leads or bass lines should give better detection accuracy than strumming chords. Monophonic vs. polyphonic.

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