Hugh Mann

Rosetta is completely transparent and anything running under it feels the same as native. Equally snappy. And some software actually runs better under Rosetta than on windows or intel Mac. . Like Ableton. On my windows laptop (2016 dell Inspiron) and on my previous 2018 15inch MacBook Pro (with 16gb ram), Ableton would take a really long time to load. Under Rosetta with the m1, it opens up right away. I am looking forward to more software being m1 native, though. That should translate into even better performance. However, Rosetta works so well, it seems many developers are dragging their feet a bit on porting to M1. Some may never do it.

In order to answer a few more questions about the M1 with just 8gb of ram, I ran some more tests. For this one, I loaded 20 instances of Kontakt and made sure to load a unique library for each instance. I created an 8 bar loop playing back 8 notes. Sustained and staccato. UAD Arrow set to 96khz and 32 samples. This time, I wasn't downloading or installing other programs while I ran the tests. I did have one safari tab open. And I ran the test off of the battery. I really love the battery life on this thing. Its really great to be able to work on real projects, with no cord. Truly a portable, powerhouse, workstation. The ram did the same as in the other tests. peaked at around 7.5gb. Interestingly, it didn't use as large of swap file. The laptop was not struggling at all. I ran out of libraries to load ( I only want the ones I installed and used for this test). It all played back fine. No glitches or drops outs. My conclusion, and what a lot of reviewers (that have actually tested the 8gb model ) are also concluding, is that 8gb on an M1 is not the same as 8gb on an x86 platform. Apple calls it "unified memory". Here is a link to an article that goes into more technical detail. https://www.howtogeek.com/701804/how-unified-memory-speeds-up-apples-m1-arm-macs/ Bottom line...paying apple the high price for the 16gb ram, may not be worth it, as it won't necessarily improve the performance. I've found that to be the case in my tests, so I'm glad I tried it for myself, instead of just assuming 8gb would never be enough. I could probably keep pushing the machine and get even more impressive results. But, I'm more interested in real world scenarios vs just pushing it to see its limits. This test gives a really good indication of what can be achieved with "just" 8gb of ram and an M1 chip. The libraries I used are: Session Strings Kontakt Factory Grand India Sitar India Ensemble Butch Vig Drums VLS Strings Cello Noire Pure Noire Felt Strummed Acoustic 2 6string Strum Acoustic 2 12 string Cloud Supply Analog Dreams 2 Ethereal Earth 2 Hybrid Keys 2 OTS Evolution OTS Infinity Grandure Scarbee Mark 1 Scarbee Clavinet Scarbee A 200.

btw, this was with the buffer set at 32. I could have done way more by increasing the buffer to 64, which is still very low latency.

Here is a different test. This time in Studio One 5. I made about a 9 bar midi loop. 8 notes. sustained and staccato. I loaded 8 instances of Kontakt, each with a different library. They are listed on the track names in the screenshot. I also loaded a BFD preset and let it play back a midi drum beat. I also loaded ezdrummer. I then loaded 11 different VST instruments. Also listed on the track names. That brought me to 21 tracks. All of this played back fine. So I copied the 11 instruments again. This is more of a cpu test with ram also being pushed. This brought me to 32 tracks. Played back fine. So I copied the 11 instruments a couple more times. This brought me to 57 tracks. This played back fine. So I copied the entire 57 tracks. this brought me to 114 tracks. Now all of this is already an unrealistic stress test. But, we want to see the limits of what an 8gb M1 can do. This time, it took a bit longer to load. I could see the swap file increasing in size, so that would account for the time it took to copy all of this. Interestingly, as you can see from the screenshot, the ram stayed at around 7.5 gb. But the swap file kept increasing to 9gb. This shows what I was saying before of the ssd being used as a sort of ram. Not faster than actual ram, of course, but it works. The entire project played back fine. no drop outs. I could probably keep going, but at this point its just academic. Clearly 8gb is enough for even serious, full on productions. Now, predictably, some will poo poo this and say this is only for "lightweight" or "amateur productions". But that is , of course, silly. Many hit albums and songs have been produced and are being produced now with way less going on than what is on the little test I just concocted. The question I had was if an 8gbM1 Air (with no fan!) could be used for serious productions. The answer, as these tests demonstrate, is yes (and then some). I think this machine can be used in several scenarios. professionally. Here are some of the ways I will be using it: As a host for BFD/Ez drummer. I play e-drums in live settings and I want to trigger BFD /ezdrummer with as low a latency as possible. The M1 Air gives me a super powerhouse of a brain for my drum libraries. Its a small, lightweight package that is just perfect for bringing live. With my UAD arrow and this M1, I can play BFD from e drums at under 2ms latency. This is no problem at all for the Air. Another scenario is as a low latency guitar fx. It doesn't have to be just guitar. Any instrument or vocal. But, due to the power and efficiency of the m1 air, I can bring just the laptop and a UAD arrow and have all the fx I would want to use live. At under 2ms latency. and at 96khz. While also sequencing program changes. Another scenario is as an Ableton/keys station. Again, in this scenario I could go real far without the M1 Air even acting like it cares, lol. And another way I will use this is as a mobile recording station. I can record the audio from the guitar and vocals (arrow only has 2 inputs), while recording the midi from my e drums and the keyboards. Another scenario is as a mixing, production work station. And again, this machine will be able to handle it all. From creation to completion. All this is no problem at all for this machine. nowhere near pushing it to do these things. I had to create some wild and unrealistic stress tests to make it break a sweat. Stuff that is unrealistic in actual, real world use. This M1 (any version) is a very useful tool. No fanboys crap. Its just a great tool. And if one wants to save a bit of change, the 8gb will do very well. Im sticking with the 8gb cause its doing everything I want to do or can even forsee myself wanting to do. I admit, it feels weird to have "just" 8gb of ram. But its handling everything I am throwing at it. Its juts not X86 architecture. So the old thinking about ram doesn't apply.

I see you r point, but you aren't exactly right on that. One instance of the grandeure, noire, and Session Strings 2 takes up way less ram on this machine than 9 of each (27 total). In fact, 27 was the limit before I got drop outs. So adding more of the same does indeed stress the ram, after enough are loaded. Not like you said "RAM wise, you may as well only be running a single instance of The Grandeur.". I that was the case, I could load 50 grandures with no problem. Keep in mind I'm playing back the 27 separate tracks with midi data. not just loading it. I didn't try just loading it, cause what's the point in that. Also, keep in mind its pulling 8 notes from 27 different instances. So 27 x 8 = 216 simultaneous notes (if my math is wrong). Hardly an invalid test. I think it shows that even with "just" 8gb ram, one can do full productions. This was at 32 buffer setting and on the internal Mac audio. With 4 safari tabs open (one YouTube video) and also simultaneously installing BFD. Thats impressive. But more tests to come. What Kontakt and sample libraries do you consider sufficient for this type of test? I only have (as far as large libraries) Kontakt , the stuff in Logic, ez drummer, and I'm installing BFD drums. If anyone want s to donate software for me to test, my DM is always open.

Here is another version of the same test. This time, as Doug suggested, I loaded different instruments. I only have the following installed right now. But here is a pic of that. This is with 1 OTS Strawberry, 1 OTS Infinity, 1 Analog Dreams, 1 Hybrid Keys, 1 Butch Big Drums. And the rest are Noire, Session strings 2, and Grander (as indicated on the track names). So 27 different Kontakt instances. Each track playing back 8 notes max, sustained and staccato. I also opened up 4 Safari tabs, and I was installing BFD while running the test. I don't have any Acoustica plug ins. I have Plug in Alliance, U-he, Korg, and a few others I haven't installed yet. More tests to come.

here are some results of a MacBook Air. 8gb ram. 512gb ssd. This is just a preliminary test, but I'm sure of interest to many, especially since they are on sale so often lately. I took screenshots, as pics or it didn't happen...so for this test, I only am using Kontakt and Logic Pro . logic is running native and Kontakt Rosetta. 9 instances of Noire. 9 of Session Strings 2, and 9 of Grandure. 27 tracks total. buffer set to 32 and at 44.1. I looped a 20 bar pattern consisting of sustained notes, as well as short staccato notes. I attached a pic of the piano roll to demonstrate the notes being looped. I looped it for 30 minutes. And I had the project open for over 2 hours. no drop outs or glitches. I was also downloading BFD while I was doing this. The Air did get warm. I don't have a way to measure the temp, but it felt on the warmer side. Maybe like luke warm water. but not hot. nowhere near as hot as my prior 2018 15inch MB pro with two fans. Keep in mind that this is not a real world scenario. As why have all these instances of the same thing. Its just a stress test. And also note that this is with the internal Mac audio. Im sure my results will be better when I run the test through my UAD arrow instead. And I was running this test off of the battery. I forgot I wasn't plugged in. The word amazing comes to mind, but I'll save the impressions and just present the results.

Thank you for that. It’s very generous of you, especially considering how snarky I was in return. After the beating I’ve been getting, my @$$ hurts, lol. I admit my tone earned some of that. And yes, it was some attempts at humor. No real offense to anyone intended. My jokes…ehh..maybe I’ll stick to music…. I don’t want to be petty or vindictive. I actually am curious for myself. I recently got bfd during the promo (awesome deal, and why I come here. CC is the king), and I’m wondering if an air cooled laptop could stream that,in a live setting. I wonder if the air cooled laptop would over heat and throttle the cpu during the course of a gig. to the point of being unusable. Im curious and I’m sure others would be too. Not just here. I’ll post it on YouTube. And i also want to answer some questions that are very specific to in the box producers . I think many would be interested in knowing this. Plus I’ve been talking up these 8gb go machines so damn much, that I may have convinced myself I really don’t need to wait till November to get the new ones, lol.

To anyone following this…I’m not interested in being a pariah or whatever. I’m a tech fan and music maker, like most of you. I made claims about an 8gb m1. Those claims seem unbelievable and absurd. I would have agreed, except I tried it myself and was amazed. I bought the 8gb model because I didn’t want to pay the Apple tax on ram and wanted to see how it could handle what I would use it for. I was amazed. And I’ve been building computers for over 20 years, so I’m no novice. So, since the detractors and doubters are unwilling to test an 8gb themselves, or believe the other reviews and videos, I’ll go get an 8gb air and post my test results. I’ll happily run through any scenario you guys want, as long as I have that plug in. I think most of us have kontakt. I’m Not interested in the personal put downs and such, though I do love a good joke. But this is something that is of interest to many. And I think it’s a fascinating question. Can an 8 gb machine really do full blown productions? It’s counter to all we’ve known so far, but the answer is yes. But, since you all don’t know this first hand, I will provide the proof. Not for vindication. I really am not that petty. But just to help answer a very interesting question as it relates to musicians who use computers for music. Give me a week or so.

I disagree. Too bad these mean girls aren’t as hot. And yes that would be checkmate. But I’m not arguing that point. So it’s really a long post that doesn’t address my argument at all. And that is, everybody say it with me….an 8 gb machine can do way way more than what Jim is making it out to be. His statement was misleading and not true. Come on. He and some of you guys know his statement is absurd. Of course an 8gb M1 can do way more than surf the bet and office programs. You guys are being dishonest

I agree it’s silly. And also dishonest of you to keep insisting I said something I did not. In case there was a misunderstanding, I further explained that I don’t believe that sd is a substitute for ram. I never said or meant that. You are making up and countering a point I did not make. My point continues to be that you said an 8gb machine would only be good for surfing the web or office. This is simply not true. Provable. Amazingly , an 8gb is close to the 16gb. performance, from what I’ve seen. As I’ve kept pointing out, many videos and reviews prove this. That proof is not good enough for some of you. Ok. That’s fine. It’s good to have more tests and more info added to the pot. But now you say there is no point in testing an 8gb machine. What a cop out.

Ok, so let’s keep it going then. Geez. How ia what I’m saying incorrect? You really don’t know. You have never tested one yourself and neither has Jim. The 8gb model. So until the tests come back, all you have really done is troll me. The very definition of trolling. I ask again, can you all just stop making this personal already?

I gave you that one lol.

I corrected a false and misleading statement. Some of you pounced on me and started attacking me cause it was Jim’s statement being challenged. You guys did it in a snarky and bullying way. Ganging up on me. So I tried to poke fun and give it right back. But, Like most bullies, they can dish it out, but can’t take it. You where super condescending and sarcastic towards me. I tried to make jokes with it. I even walked back the Stone Age comment since it bugged you so much. I’ll admit, some of my jokes may have missed the mark. I think I’m funny, but maybe my wife is right and I’m not. But I don’t listen to her either,so whatever, lol. Either way, I feel I contributed positively to the community by correcting this misinformation. If you get no value out of it, that’s fine. I really am not here for you, lol. So again, can we move on now please ? I’m sure everyone is just as tired of this pointless abuse by now as I am. . Thanks.

^^That’s not bullying, lol. ^^ Be best. Whatever. I engendered I’ll will from some of you because I dared to correct a false and exaggerated statement from someone you guys are a fan of. I don’t think that’s fair, especially since I’m correct. but so be it. Like I said, it really reflects more on you guys than it does me. Can we move on and stop making it personal now? Or do you need to vent your anger and abuse some more?

You are the biggest bully of them all, lol.

So what does all this equal in real world situations? One can load a 20gb file in 10 Vs 10.5 seconds? One can stream 860 vs 820 Audio tracks at once? One can run 70 vst’s vs 90? Testing and benchmarking is good and kind of fun, but what does it mean in real, practical, scenarios? To me,I was able to do anything I could possibly think of and way more on an 8gb machine. The limits are not on the machine, as far as producing music. In fact, that has been true for a Long time now, with computers. I managed to produce and release a few songs with record labels using way older machines. I’m sure many of you have as well.

What I said is not inaccurate. Maybe not stated in a technical way. But the point was that it uses the ssd as a sort of ram. Isn’t that what a swap file is? You can try to get me on a technicality if you want, but the point is accurate. He is saying that because the sad is slower than the ram, performance will suffer. He assumes, since he hasn’t tested an 8gb one. Now of course, it’s not a bad assumption. It will be a performance hit, compared to internal ram. But how much of one? As in real world difference? One can assume, but until tested, it’s all speculation. He is making it seem like it will be a crippling hit. That is not the case. It’s a misleading statement. Here is a video that explains it well. Around 1:20 minutes in. Maybe Doug can practice his google searching and look up other articles and videos that explain this better.

I never said that. I don’t think that. I said an 8gb machine can run way way way more that how you are making it seem. And that’s a verifiable fact.

Im not a glutton for punishment, but I’m not gonna let you guys bully me into letting this very inaccurate statement be taken as a fact. This is not true. It’s inaccurate. And making this claim is spreading false information. An 8gb m1 Mac will be suitable for way, way more than surfing, office, etc.., Saying otherwise is just not true. Even the air. This is proven in many of the videos out there. Not opinions or exaggerations. But measurable and repeatable. You can see it with your own eyes in many of the videos out there. The next statement of “8gb ram a small handful of virtual instruments would have the machine ram starved”. This is misleading. It implies the machine is weak and can’t handle much. Yes, the ram will be at about 7 gb. But it stays there. Keep adding kontakt instruments, keep adding,keep adding, and the ram stays there. It will play back , glitch free at 96khz 64 buffer. It will take an impractical amount of abuse before it starts to crack. And still at super low latency. Under 3ms with my UAD interface. . you can very much do way more than a handful of vstinstruments. You can do some serious productions on it. So to say it as you have is a very exaggerated statement that is taken by many as facts. That’s a disservice to the community. As far as the chrome tabs. Why not safari? I had like ten tabs open with my monster project and it kept going. Glitch free. All that you have pointed out is with a 16 gb machine. that’s fine and good info. I’m talking about an 8gb. the statements you are making here as facts, are about an 8gb machine. And the above statements are simply inaccurate. When you test one, you will see. Till then, I think the bullying reflects more on you guys than it does me. as far as whether one machine is better than anything else. lt’s all just tools use what ever gets you there. this tool happens to be great for music makers If one wants to save a bit of money, an 8gb m1 will be a phenomenal machine. Even the air, from the videos I’ve seen. At many points in my life, the price difference between 8gb and 16gb would be something I’d have to consider very carefully. To characterize it as you have is inaccurate and misleading. And you have caused me some grief, lol. I’d still get a 16gb. Because I’m blessed to be able to afford it. For future proofing, since you are stuck with whatever configuration you initially purchase. But if all I could afford is an 8gb Mac mini or even an air, I know for sure it would be capable of handling way, way, way more than how you are making it seem.

…add 8gb vs 16gb to the nodiscuss list, lol.

I don’t like being bullied by you guys. You guys are antagonizing me for stating facts I have first hand experience with. The crux, lol, is whether one can load grander on an 8gb machine. I’m the only one here, it seems, who has actually used one of these machines. Not even the expert has experience with one. Yet he made that claim. That claim is incorrect. I know, with such certainty, because I had one and got the results I described. I was just correcting information in case someone wants to same sone money when buying a Mac. I’m like a super hero in that way, lol. btw, three results on your search! Great job. You are getting better! Keep at it.

If you can’t figure out how to search, you have issues I can’t begin to address. Since you are so incapable, lol, here is a good one. Or go to YouTube and put m1 Mac 8gb daw. I just found dozens. https://youtu.be/43pqKIEFhFM Ableton performed way better under Rosetta. Lots of other programs are actually running better under Rosetta. So really, it depends. The part that makes me feel m1 is so much better than intel and amd is that it can do all this without getting hot or needing cooling. Intel and amd may have power too, but for sure they will be super hot and need lots of cooling. This makes an m1 more advanced. Since you don’t like the Stone Age comparison,lol, I’ll put it another way. They are ahead of and and intel by at least two-three years. It happens. Happened with power pc vs x86. And it’s happening now. I don’t get why that bothers some of f you do much.

Good to know. Thanks for updating my info I’m really excited for the next version. If the one I had did that much, the next one will be even better. We are in great times, computer wise, at least.