azslow3

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

There are known issues when certain 3rd party ASIO driver " invade" the timing offset calculation Device dialogue. The list I am aware of include Steinberg Generic and Asio4all. Possibly the Real Tech ASIO too.  I have no personal experience with that being invasive, but I do with the first 2.

ASIO4ALL can invade computer audio... That I had (btw disabling/removing it not always help, only Windows complete re-install or major Windows update can help in that case, the reason is unclear...).

But I have several ASIO drivers in the system (including Realtek), sometimes active simultaneously. That populates Offset Device dialog and make the selection shown wrong (it selects the first from available, not current). That was never a problem for me.

I repeat, I don't claim there can be no problems with 3d party ASIO drivers. I just claim what is shown in that strangly formatted Cakewalk dialog is not an indication of a problem.

@Sheds before changing the interface, check your computer/settings. In particular: run LatencyMon, it should be under 1ms; check your Power Plan is set to Ultimate (or at least to Performance); till you have proved good power plan, explicitly check USB power saving is off.

@John Vere In your video "Record Latency Adjustment" (7:30) note is not accurate. For some (historical?) reason, Cakewalk list not only currently used device there, but also other devices. Whenever dialog is open, it select "the first" in the list, which can be currently unused device.

Even more, Cakewalk can mess with these settings in case driver mode is changed and the sequence of devices in one mode  differ from the sequence in other, it seems like Cakewalk remember/show manual offsets as a list, ignoring devices. So the shift set for one device appear as a shift for other after driver mode change. That is clearly a bug. Cakewalk IO settings (MIDI and Audio) are periodically messed since years, I guess there is some general deep problem there which is hard to fix.

What I want to say, the fact some interface appear in "Record Latency Adjustment"  drop box (and even selected by default) is not an indication something should be changed/removed in the system.

"Device" and "Manual Offset" are connected, select Steinberg and set 10. After saving, open dialog again. You should find that offset is still 0 for Realtek and 10 for Streinberg.

About computer optimization for audio there are many threads and forums. Enabled Realtek by itself should not influence anything, at least not when unused (by Cakewalk and Windows). Getting most stable drivers under Window, which means RME device, is pricey.  Steinberg should work fine when computer/system are ok.

1 hour ago, Sheds said:

So my question is -- I can disable realtek but it still shows in Cakewalk -- ok, so who cares? 

Well, if I change the Record Latency Adjustment to Steinberg -- it just reverts back to realtek.

You can disabled Realtek on BIOS level or Windows level, but no one really cares.

In Record Latency Adjustement there is a possibility to set manual shift for all devices you have, on dialog display it select the first... but only the setting for currently active device is used. So select Steinberg and check manual shift is 0 (or set correctly, in case you have measured it). For Steinberg, ASIO reported value should be fine (or very close to real), so set to use it.

Note that even in case ASIO reports correct value, it is for device only. In case you connect something with own latency to the input (f.e. digital mixer), extra manual adjustment should be used.  There are many detailed guides how to measure the value to set there, quick method is just loop record output, zoom to the sample level and notice the difference.

Somehow thinking that configuring a controller for a DAW is "intuitive" and can be achieved without reading the documentation is common. That was also my approach at the beginning. And I was so frustrated from the result of configuring "ACT MIDI Controller", that I have started to write my own ("AZ Controller")... Later I have learned that existing in Cakewalk instrumentation is not bad and can fulfill many wishes, once learned 🙄

BTW I have written in depth documentation about "ACT MIDI Controller" (interleaved with tutorial how to achieve the same in "AZ Controller", but that can be skipped):
https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,107.0.html

"Generic surface" and "AZ Controller" have no such limitation. Alternatively you can write your own plug-in,  Cakewalk Surface API is Open Source under MIT license, "ACT MIDI" controller is also open source. But that is tricky.

Sorry to say, but "ACT MIDI Controller" part is misleading... "ACT" button, "Active Controller Technology" group and "Exclude from ACT" in the options tab have absolutely nothing to do with MIDI learning the controller, BTW most users will want transport buttons "excluded", to use them as transport buttons when playing soft synths or working with FXes. Historically "ACT" has several different meanings in Cakewalk, mentioned options are related to "following context" and "dynamic plug-in mapping".

From MPD232 pictures, it has encoders (knobs can be turned endless). For controlling DAW, so for the bank used with "ACT MIDI Controller", it is better to configure them as Inc/Dec2 (and set corresponding option in "ACT MIDI Controller" by Ctrl+Clicking corresponding cells). Banks for MIDI learn inside soft synths better set to finite (not all plug-ins understand encoders and recorded MIDI can have strange results otherwise). All switches to be used for DAW controlling ("ACT MIDI Controller" supports 8 in total, but "Generic" and "AZ" Controllers have no limit) better set to CC Momentary, pads to Note without After-touch. All controls used for DAW must have different CC to avoid troubles, on separate from performance controls channel (to avoid clashes). Controls for using with plug-ins can use standard CC (to use without learning) and "unassigned" CCs to learn (CC numbers are described on midi.org and many other Internet resources).

Learning own device (reading the documentation for the device and related software) and learning software in question (in this case Cakewalk documentation, Control Surfaces section) is a good way to make a device work as desired. Randomly selecting/clicking sometimes works, but the result is random....

12 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

I was playing with my MKII 61 last evening and discovered the same feature that exists in many DAWS. I simply right clicked on a control in Cakewalk, selected learn and moved the control to map it. Since I only mapped a few controls I'm not sure how extensive this is.

For the whole project in a DAW (with DAW and plug-ins parameters) the number of things to control is huge. And so the mapping has to be "smarter" then in case of one plug-in. That is what ACT try to target for Cakewalk.

For occasional arbitrary control or control of small subset of parameters, MIDI mapping can work.

12 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

The processes that tie together several steps in software would be helpful which is why I was excited about Cubase 12  new midi editor that lets you tie many more functions inside the DAW than most and build your own controllers mapped to anything.

From the video about "MIDI Remote Integration" assistant it is nice from graphics and workflow perspectives. From the end result that is not what some people call "deep integration" provided by custom scripts/programs/presets, which BTW take long time to create (and required MIDI/DAW/programming knowledge).

10 hours ago, Adrian Piccioli said:

Youp, found an open-sourced SDK in github (MIT licence) . https://github.com/Cakewalk/Cakewalk-Control-Surface-SDK  Compiles fine in VS2017 🤓

If you need a tip what you should change so it works with User mode Arturia encoders, let me know 😏

It depends what encoders send when they are turned. Check if that can be changes in User mode (unfortunately from the documentation seems like not) or try DAW modes (different). "Cakewalk Generic surface" support reversed controls, "AZ Controller" supports almost all possible variations, but "ACT MIDI Controller" does not support that at the moment. Note that in case you want "ACT MIDI Controller" and you will not find DAW mode which works, ask Cakewalk to support Keylab style encoders. I am almost sure msmcleod will help  (also "ACT MIDI Controller" is open source, theoretically any C++ programmer can make related modification 😏)

9 hours ago, Adrian Piccioli said:

See the video tutorial to see how "MIDI learn" works.  I would recommend to use a free user mode in Keylab mkII for all this setup. DAW modes (all I tried) will send relative values and CbB will just not get them right. Technically they are digital-encoders, and not fixed 270° potentiometers. 

...

Other solution could be to create even more ACT devices to map more hardware buttons. It should work I think, not sure about two ACT using the same MIDI input however.

Physical encoders technically send relative values, and that is good for DAW control since they are always at "right position" when you change which parameter the same encoder controls. CbB has to be told to use such values, after that it will "get them right". In "ACT MIDI Controller" you need to Ctrl+Click on cell to configure that, in "Cakewalk Generic surface" that is in "MIDI message interpretation" section, in "AZ Controller" it is in the Value Action parameters.

Several "ACT MIDI Controller"s assigned to the same MIDI input can course "MIDI leaks". Controller block assigned messages, but these blocks are not summed. So only blocked in the last controller for particular MIDI input messages are really blocked. In case 8+8+8 limit in "ACT MIDI Controller" is a problem, "Cakewalk Generic surface" may be better solution. For ultimate flexibility there is "AZ Controller".

Alternative way: https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,178.0.html

On 2/28/2022 at 7:12 AM, Sven said:

PS:  Some links with other choices:

https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-best-audio-interfaces

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/best-usb-audio-interfaces/

I am a bit curious why the first list does not even mention one of the best small factor interface for Windows... I mean RME Babyface Pro FS.

It is possible to discuss some UA or Audient sound better/different, but for drivers and features under Windows, RME is still the best. Without extreme tweaking, the latency is also the best. Unfortunately the price is also on top... So if stability, features and latency have no value in your case, there are alternatives. If you are ready to pay extra for mentioned properties, there are no alternatives. 😏

The surface plug-in is vs700.dll from https://github.com/Cakewalk/Cakewalk-Control-Surface-SDK/blob/master/Bin/x64/VS700.dll

It does not matter in which directory it is, but you need to open command console (type "cmd" in windows start, you will see it, right click and select "run as administrator"), change to the directory with the file (something like "cd C:\the\directory\path") and then run "regsvr32 vs700.dll". Notice in case you get an error.

55 minutes ago, Michael Finnity said:

My laptop has an 11th Gen I7 with 16gb solid state drive. It's very capable, but the asio driver seems to be best as far as latency goes. I have a roland td25 and the best I can get using that driver is 7ms. 

Latency has little to do with the power of CPU, especially with just one not CPU hungry plug-in like EZDrummer. The system has to be tuned for music, that is in general not easy with notebooks.

7ms RTL should be sufficient for e-drums. If that is just output latency, so toward ~15ms RTL, then it is noticeable (but still playable). Apply some system tweaks and check system latency, there are many guides in the internet. As I wrote, TD can work on lowest or close to lowest settings without death optimization. The only case I couldn't bring TD latency under 12ms (RTL) was on very old Atom based box.  On almost 10 years old CoreDuo (Celeron) I could use next to lowest settings.

With "power save" power plan any audio driver glitch.

TD11 with lowest settings has RTL 5.4ms (3.2ms output) at 44.1kHz. And that is stable and usable with EZDrummer for sure, assuming your computer can handle that. Yes, that latency is not from top class. But significantly better latency have only interfaces over €200, and you need strongly optimized for audio computer for that. Till you are in €700 category, where 1.5ms output latency is possible with moderate optimization. You write about 1.5ms from €1 interface, on computer which is not even optimized to run Roland driver without problems...

Why are you not using Roland (Edirol) ASIO? from your first post I guess you use e-drums. BTW your audio equipment (umc, roland, build-in) is not capable to work with sub 5ms RTL, I mean 1.5ms you  see somewhere is fake.  Note that headphones  with 3ms RTL are approximately the same as 0 latency with real drums (your head is about 1m away from drums, that is 3ms for the speed of sound).

11 hours ago, aidan o driscoll said:

@azslow3 Belated Thanks for this BTW. Works enough to get CW projects direct into Reaper. As I said my band scattered across world are using REAPER to bridge the platform thing, some use Macs, others PC ( PC users use CW ).

I noticed it does bring across extra tracks and folder tracks etc, as you said I think its to do with busses etc? Any way i wonder of just getting across track per track .. keeping it simple  

Yes, (most) extra tracks are buses. The concept of "Track/bus output" in Cakewalk more or less match the concept of "Parent send" in REAPER, so I create folders based on original output. But I still create explicit sends, for the reason explained before. Unlike "simple" converters, I also convert FXes. So converting buses is not just  complicate the result 😏

And you can select buses and delete them quick  (requires SWS and simple macro if I remember correctly, have not done that for a while).

1. do NOT install ASIO4ALL till you are sure you need it and you are ready to accept all other audio drivers will stop working as before. Uninstalling not always helps. It does something which is probably revertible with manual editing of registry only. I once had the situations, after installing it for test. Note that major Windows update probably helps, that has helped in my case. Also note that with Cakewalk and current Windows you never need ASIO4ALL, there is no situations it performs better then other options.
2. in Windows based $100k studio, investing $1-3k into audio interface make sense. Especially in case you want life monitor throw DAW.
3. MIDI can be bugged from time to time. Audio interface can help only in case the keyboard is connected by MIDI cable throw it. While MIDI cable is slow, USB connected keyboards can have even worse latency. But when not bugged, that is rarely an issue.

53 minutes ago, Colin Nicholls said:

20 English Shillings say this poster will not return!

I have started with Sonar X1... "this program crash every time I try to do what I want" was true for me that time... But I have payed for it, so I am still (at least partially) there 😏

6 hours ago, Ælleden said:

...
I work in the Visual Effects industry, which is full of very complex and advanced software with scripting, code, nodal stuff etc. so I'm no stranger to  pieces of software that are hard to master and yet Cakewalk, which should be a simple music making software, is extremelly unreliable and not intuitive at all in my opinion.
Plenty of features actually don't work as intented, audio bugs, Cakewalk splitting your work into pieces that you have to merge back together but it doesn't work 2 times out of 3. multiple crashes etc.

Is it the same with other DAWs? I was mega hyped when the thought of making some of my own tracks came up and now I'm mega tilted and on the verge of ditching everything.

...
I'm probably gonna receive a very biased opinion since a non-cakewalk user wouldn't read the Cakewalk forum lol but please don't flame me.

Assume you are serious...

Music production software is not "simple".  The framework is oriented toward the intuition and intention of musicians and studio engineers.  Also it is oriented toward "conventional" way to produce music, so record from external sources (audio and MIDI) and then edit the result.

Independent from the DAW, you will need to learn it first.  Especially if you want understand why the behavior of something does not match your expectation.  Cakewalk is one of convenient to use and simple to understand DAWs.

But you can try other DAWs. If you want "guided start", try Tracktion. You will get wizard for what you have to do and the view is "left to right, top to bottom" style.  For not "record on type" approach, try Ableton Live.  And in case you want scripts and "hard to crash" thing, try REAPER. But there is no "I am the best and the only" DAW.

Normally push encoder sends specified MIDI message when you press it, normally with value "max" (127) when pressed and with value "min" (0) when your release.

Which effect that produce is up to the DAW plugin (Mackie in this case).

For real Mackie controller you can't change what it sends. F.e. as you can see in my picture, encoder 1 always sends note 32. In case you can change it to note 41, it will switch encoders to "Sends" instead of usual reaction, since Mackie think you have pressed (dedicated) "Send" button (in VPOT Assign section).

Controller can also define some internal operation, the choice is clear once you have the device and use its editor (I don't have QCon, so I can't check).

MCU messages with Cakewalk layout (it is a bit different from default MCU layout):

ACT MIDI provides no feedback, so no LEDs, no track names, etc. Also the number of mappable controls is limited. So when Mackie is emulated well on device, using corresponding mode gives advantages. The disadvantage is fixed layout, it does what it does.

22 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

I wonder what holds VST4 in stores for us 🤔 

As I wrote before... VST4 announcement can really have "armageddon" effect, not just 20 pages discussion.

Any (all) VST3 developer(s) can be informed (by simple e-mail) that his/her license to write VST3 plug-ins is void in 6 month.  § 9.3 of license agreement...

In addition, even prior such drastic change, §3 can be used to force everyone immediately (within 30 days) change all VST related logos (which have to be used everywhere).

Think about forcing Cakewalk users use Cakewalk logo and trademark notice on any media, including uploaded MP3, in case Cakewalk was used to produce it. And update that logo at all places, within 30 days, at Cakewalk wish. That is hard to imagine. But Steinberg does that. And they have no problem use "modified" GPL3 license, the license which was invented to be not modifiable at wish...

30 minutes ago, Herbert Miron said:

I see, I thought there was still some contract between Nomad and Cakewalk regarding Sonar Platinum users, as it was part of the Platinum package.
So I thought that at least for users who had previously purchased Sonar Platinum, they could have the plugins that came with the DAW updated to VST3.

Thanks!

Cakewalk has not announced the end of VST2 support. And till that happened, there is no reason to worry about Platinum package.

Please correct me in case I am wrong, but VST2 license  has no time limit. So hosts and plug-ins developers which have it can continue supporting VST2, including developing new VST2 plug-ins.

One topic which is less discussed is that my last statement is already wrong for VST3! In VST3 license there are special parts targeting exactly that question (Steinberg has learned the lesson...). Effectively in case Steinberg introduce VST4 (VST 3.99, VST 5, etc.), they can enforce all developers stop develop VST3 (except bug fixing existing plug-ins).

So, as I have mentioned in another thread, I hope VST3 days are numbered. Users and developers should finally realize they are owned without benefits...