JnTuneTech

I definitely concur, not just regarding Cakewalk of course, it's part of the way coding for common platforms works, I would imagine. So many entry points to doing certain functions have to be matched, and matched to expected standards, and of course if one method doesn't work, someone somewhere will go nuts. -I really have to hand it to programmers on big public works projects, -it's amazing Cakewalk has been as good as it is, but of course, nothing is perfect. I would have to ask, for instance @msmcleod - does keyboard shortcut interfacing still get as much priority as say, GUI menus, or how is that all going? It must be hell to keep it all in sync. -And then allow for custom keyboard mapping! Wow.

@Bruno de Souza Lino- Thanks, got it. As I say, I haven't had much luck using layouts myself either, so I add that as testimony!

@John Vere One thing I realized - for myself anyway - is that giving tech instructions can be tough for people who worry about all the differing opinions and methods. So, sort of as @mettelus suggested, maybe just make sure to point out that this is what you find works - at the time you made these instructions. Then cut to the chase, as they say. But wow - isn't searching for anything seemingly innocuous - on the Web, absolutely bonkers? And now we will get AI suggestions in the mix... Yikes!

This is another "so many ways - personal preferences... " type of thing. -I happen to have been frustrated recently when adding new plugins too, so I changed the view option. -Where is says "Plug-in Layouts >" in the screen shot - I pop that out and choose "Sort by Type". Then, next time I use that menu - below the recent used list it shows the groups first - VST3, VST2, DirectX - and then manufacturer names, and then the plugin(s) names for each. -Anyway, for me, then I usually see all (non-hidden) installed plugins that way, or if not, try toggling/refreshing that view setting preference... But that's just one way. You can also create plugin layout(s), but I found I had to update those a lot. -Maybe it was just me though!

P.S. @John Vere We are all just searching for answers to similar things here, but who knows what "smarter" really is!! You are too funny. -Or is that considered an insult these days... I never know any more. -I suppose smarter people do though!!

I don't know about "dreaded" - for me it was easier than going back to find an old Sonar, or the full Cakewalk installer, -when I installed them a few months back. -But I understand your trepidation. And from what I recall, you have to find the steps to the additional component installation tool of the assistant app, I had to research the current method! After that, I also recall having the SI installers saved for a while, though I kinda cleaned up & let them go not much longer afterwards...

I can sympathize, truly. One of the least user-friendly features, unfortunately, at least in creating & modifying. It's been some time since I got my reference links together - I will see if I can find some time today and look for what I managed to source on editing format & rules for .ins files. -And I definitely use Notepad myself, but any programmer will have their favorite text editing app. Some can really streamline things, but you would have to ask around. -But .ins files are really just a rather simple text file, you don't want to accidentally introduce anything other than text, so don't use Word, for instance. .ins files, -for me-, have 2 major uses: #1 - if you want to change the PRV to display the keyboard notes as names you define. -That works for any MIDI track, regardless of output. -VSTi, no output, -whatever. #2 - they are definitely originally designed for - mapping to an assigned MIDI output, so that when you select that output choice in a track, the PRV will automatically use that note naming, and external instruments with patches & banks will match. -But you don't have to use that at all. It's also not necessary to have multiple banks, or name very possible note, bank, etc. Also, as to the mapping that causes "diamond shaped" notes in PRV - it is a one-line choice in the .ins file, as to whether the patch is designated as a rhythm instrument (diamond shaped notes), or notes (normal full note view). -Again, I need to find my documentation links, I'm just going off of memory here at the moment. -And maybe someone else will chip in before I do - this place is full of experienced folks! -As to using the bank/patch features - it is mostly a legacy thing, and will only work probably with GM-compatible VST2 synths (and external gear, of course), as VST3 seems to have done away with GM MIDI bank/patch features entirely. That has really taken a lot of use out of these types of things, so they will probably be going away, or at the least, being buried like the documentation is now!

Yes, but maybe not as complicated as you are worrying it will be. -Time consuming, for sure, but really, you only have so many pads, even tweaking them one by one isn't terribly hard. Usually the defaults for sensitivity, response curve, should work fine, although as some hardware ages, the pads lose some of that sensitivity, I have seen that happen. But anyway, -generally, you may only want to get your kit piece custom note assignments mapped out - I tend to do it on an actual text document, or heaven forbid a piece of paper 😣 - Doh! The rest of it you simply decide - do I want to map the kit notes to the VST, or the other way around. -The default maps you find will most likely be based on Roland defaults, but since you want to mix 2 sets, making your own map may be easiest. Then, as far as the CC element is concerned, each (good) VST has a manual that describes the default assignments for notes to drum samples, and how to change that. In there, they point out which note number(s) respond to hi-hat CC control, and I think there is a standard that links those together. -But at first, you may be best to try a default mapping the VST has (hopefully) for your pads/module, and then you can test it for hi-hat response, and then look at that preset mapping and modify all the other pieces to match your specific pad numbers, etc., leaving the hi-hat set as recommended. -Does that make sense?

I have to ask - do you remove the VST3, save, close & reopen the project for the comparison? If not, undo could be keeping the VST3 running in the background, - just a thought.

As far as transferring project settings to an already existing project, I have not done that in Cakewalk. The closest thing I have done towards that type of procedure is to create a copy of an existing project, with all the data removed from the tracks. Then I generally name it as a template. -Not nearly as easy as what you are looking for, - I know. But since I do have some often used layouts I like to start from, it really helps. Saving often used FX chain presets, and ProChannel presets (with FX chain presets in them) can also speed things up, like entire track templates, but on a more granular basis of course. -On a side note, empty (but not blank) template creation also makes it easy to switch between project audio data rate settings, because as long as no audio data exists in the tracks, the project will open in the currently selected audio mode that Cakewalk is in. I have even used that to convert a project base from one audio rate combo to another, by copying the project to a different folder, without any of the related audio, then bypassing the locate audio dialogue. That even leaves the audio clip names & positions there for reference, and I have then replaced re-sampled versions of the audio clips in the previous locations, and thus already had the same mix tracks, busses, outputs, FX, envelopes, etc. already in place. -Lots of good uses for templates, including entire project templates.

Hit the proverbial nail on the head there with that one! -Maybe it was written by another one of those "superintelligent Star Trek giant brain person" types you mention. 😁 It has taken me years to learn some of the "basic" original MIDI programming terms & uses, beyond making keyboard "a" set to channel "x" plug in and connect with synth "b" on channel "x or is it y"... And we haven't even begun to see how MIDI 2.0 is going to add to it! -I was just getting the hang of NRPNs - a few years ago now, -jeez!! I am still stuck in the middle of editing some of my Abbey Road Drummer and SD3 definitions - the ones that don't really follow the basic "pattern" that you would think, or have been published (at least when I try them)... It takes so much copy & paste, looking at the darn routings in the synth... But well, I still use the heck out of the ones I got working!

Well,, that is all subjective, and unfortunately changes every time new software comes out, or is updated, for instance. While it may be true that the modules are designed for the matching hardware, and may do some functions better, that one function (hi-hat emulation) is really a tough one. And so far, the way the earlier Roland gear has sounded to me, even their own hi-hat solution was lacking - to my ears anyway. -I haven't tried a real decent current TD system though. All of the digital recreations still have a hard time recreating a true acoustic hi-hat. -Think about it (I know, it takes away the magic of just enjoying music, but if only for a moment) - there are so many ways a hi-hat can change the sound of hitting two cymbals. -Normally, a sampler can take into consideration velocity (volume and/or layer triggering, etc.), note and positional (per kit piece) hit information, from single pad hardware, but think of all the variations there are in the sound of an acoustic hi-hat being played dynamically! It literally takes digital recreations tons of sample layers & control sensing just to come close, and then deciding how the pedal you supply can trigger those... I have to hand it to drum software designers & programmers. It's tough. -Probably even AI will take a while to get better at that one. Anyway, you will get into all that as you go along. It still wish I could track my stuff with a real hi-hat. I know many drummers still mix & match real & electronic pieces for that reason. -Sometimes though, we just don' t have that choice though, do we! Money, resources, location... always some challenge for musicians, that no one even hears when they just enjoy a performance... - but such is life!

Indeed, but where that is actually the case, the user probably knows and is installing it on purpose. - Sincerely, I do hope the solution listed indeed works for the OP - great find! But I still have to say: -The case with Logitech - I install so many of their devices - love them generally, but when they make a forced addition to your startup items, and also prompt to download their software without explanation of the choices, it really bothers me. -The truth is, in most cases, basic mouse, headset, and camera functionality for the average user is present in the basic Microsoft-supplied (through Logitech submission) drivers for those items - unless you are needing a specific extended function. I say that, because if the OP here has issues pertaining to mouse configuration, it can be tough to know which way to go with the "repair". If they are already using extended features (accidentally or not) of the mouse via the vendor-specific software, and is unaware of how that works in general, there can be more problems ahead, other than just moving things in Cakewalk. -Be careful! Personally, I ignore the download prompt for Logitech software that happens upon adding a new Logitech device, and go immediately to the Windows Settings - Apps - Startup section, and turn off the Logitech Download Assistant that was just installed. Then, I use the device with the default drivers (except in rare cases where that is not possible), and if I find I need any of the extended features, I read up on it on the Logitech Web site, and download & install - what & when I choose to. At the least I also think I get less system clutter & background data reporting to Logitech doing it that way, though one can never be sure about that anymore these days. -Sometimes the simplest things, like a computer mouse, can get so complicated! -Sorry about the info overload. Do of course be aware of odd system device drivers & behaviors in Windows, and then fix those before they complicate things in Cakewalk, Or any app for that matter!

Well, not necessarily "special" - but things like the Roland system use a combination of different notes for different positions, and a constant CC value sent so that some software can use that to determine the sound layer and/or other features that make the sound engine respond more realistically. -That feature is probably not in SI Drums at all, and so you are only getting note changes - that only happen at open and close on the pedal, - I am guessing. That has nothing to do with latency.

Sadly, in my experience, there is no such standard, with major PC vendors anyway. Even Dell has offered some of the most bizarrely configured combinations of features, and at all price ranges, when I have had to order for clients over the years. -You really have to research & be aware of what each system offers. -At least Cakewalk itself will run fine on almost anything, for sure, but as the answers to the OP point out, using SSD storage is at least a reliable option for a simple upgrade. It is so hard to find those things out in advance for most folks. But that can be very important if you do a lot of big Cakewalk projects, to be sure. -Sad thing - even trying to buy a "performance" machine, often you will not know those things until after the sale. And even more frustrating - if you try the "bleeding edge" configurations, often you become the guinea pig for troubleshooting new problems... It can be so tough to buy a new system. Generally though, upgrading something that already works fine, and can use an SSD storage configuration instead of a spinning platter time-bomb, is a great way to go. As mentioned, there may be a few hiccups with licensing issues for things that use disk IDs as validation (not so many - but MS will throw a fit if you change too many devices at one time, FYI), but cloning nowadays is really great for moving to an SSD primary drive without a reinstall. And, theoretically, the SSDs will outlast the spinning disks without degrading, though we are all still running that experiment... But I know for sure spinning disks degrade significantly over time & use, and are way more prone to physical damage.

(P.S. I don't know anything about BBCSO) - If it is a multi-timbral instrument (sounds like it is), you may want to try checking things one track at a time - I know it's tedious, but finding the problem is hard when you just throw everything on all at once. -But, there are so many ways to do things, just keep working at it! Troubleshooting mode - only provide MIDI one track at a time - until you find one(s) that don't cause the problem. -Just a suggestion.

This can be found in Cakewalk Preferences - Project - MIDI - Other Options: MIDI Event Chase On Play. -When a project is open (it is set per project). The other options can be important too!

Yes - and in a perfect world, we musicians would have been taught basic MIDI standards, at least since the 1980s or so! 😬 -I guess we should be glad that those manufacturers aren't forcing users to buy a spiffy new specialized MIDI controller in order to make their program work in the fashion they designed. In most of the cases of CC1 being used for volume, that I have seen, it is because that is the only generally implemented physical control on a keyboard that often easily accessed to push or snap back to a set value. -So it's sort of a cheap workaround to implement easy volume swells, -sort of like a swell lever on an old Hammond organ (in fact.. many organ sims use CC1 in default setups for varying alternate uses, -cough cough- N.I...) -Still, they should at least have a big warning notice & mapping choice when you install the software, you know? @sadicus If you are sure that there is no embedded MIDI CC in any/all the tracks pointing to the instrument that is changing volume (embedded CCs use channel value, not necessarily the track they are in), then maybe you need to turn off MIDI chase in the project settings when that happens. I know I have a few orchestral arrangements, with long notes in them, that seem to "hang" and then double in volume, when I am stop-start editing in the middle of sections with those long notes, until I turn that setting off temporarily.

Wow - I didn't even think of trying to use hi-hat pedal control on SI drums - and do they really even have actual pedal control I wonder? Usually only the full-featured drum samplers have that. -I really do hope you find a way to get a good drum VSTi to try this stuff out, or you may be disappointed with the results! Such a nice set of pads deserves a good virtual kit. Even cheaper virtual drums can get by with decent one-shot samples & minimal layers on a lot of the kit, -but the one thing that really sticks out to me is when the hi-hat can't truly be expressive - at least with rock, country, of course jazz styles for heaven sakes. But the good samplers do seem to be getting closer recently. -You should definitely try your 1st method, chaining the MIDI and then into the Scarlett input, I think. using basic short MIDI cables between two devices and a decent PC interface never caused any latency issues for me. -I still have an OctaPad that I often chain through another Roland legacy keyboard, and then into my PC interface, and have had no latency issues. -Of course, your mileage may vary. But it can't hurt to try - you have all the gear already. Recording two tracks for separating kits can be good, but it still is best as John said to make sure each kit piece has a separate MIDI note, so that there are no duplicate notes assigned between the two kits. -Almost essential really. And chaining both controllers with same MIDI channel would not change latency, but if there are duplicate notes between the kits - again, there would be big problems with that, -I'm sure that's why that method was recommended. Plus, control info, such as hi-hat pedal position, would overlap. -Anyway, keep at it, you will find a good setup!

Cakewalk .ins - Instrument Definition file for RME TotalMix app (MCP subset plus RME) MIDI control mapping. ______________ -This definition file can be used as a way to graphically change the Cakewalk keyboard note representations in PRV, to help in quicker MIDI note placement, and subsequent viewing & editing, when triggering RME TotalMix track button states via MIDI. -It may also be minimally useful in connection with any MCP (Mackie Control Protocol) capable device, as by design RME incorporated basic MCP mapping into their MIDI control implementation. As of this writing, RME has recently released the latest iteration of their flagship audio interface - the Fireface UFX III. In recognition of that, -and seeing as how I created this Cakewalk ins file specifically to use with the original UFX when connected to Cakewalk, which I do still use almost exclusively as my audio interface, I am posting a copy of this file here should anyone find it useful! CbB_RME TotalMix Ctrl.ins Notes and Caveats: 1) This is a very basic instrument definition implementation, meant primarily for quick MIDI control mapping of basic RME TotalMix app button functions, and some MCP programming, which RME implemented in their app many years ago. It has not been updated for any changes since about 2010, and the primary source for the information on how the RME application is set up for this can be found in the RME TotalMix and device documentation. -It has been working for me flawlessly through all RME & Cakewalk software iterations since then. 2a) MIDI CC 7 - which is nominally output on start and use of a MIDI track in Cakewalk, will also natively control the Master Volume fader (MCP, and/or as assigned in RME TotalMix), when the Cakewalk MIDI track output is assigned to the RME TotalMix MIDI connection, and set to MIDI channel None or 1. It will continue to map to that control when the Cakewalk MIDI track fader is moved, and/or indicated with an envelope, and/or if embedded MIDI CC 7 messages are inserted into the track. 2b) -ALSO - Note that leaving the Cakewalk per-project setting - Preferences - Project - MIDI - Other Options: Zero Controllers When Play Stops - in the on (box checked) state, will cause TotalMix fader positions to go askew when the transport is stopped (when the TotalMix app MIDI output connection is active), whether or not the tracking is muted, etc. 3) I have included MIDI CC basic mapping for VPOT (rotary control) in track-pan mode (MCP and RME), -but for experimentation only-. As the VPOT pan control implementation in the MCP protocol is very low-level programming intensive, the use here has only worked for me in a few cases, creating small CC ramps in Cakewalk PRV, and editing the events one-by-one afterwards. -To get a programming explanation of how this function works in MIDI CC programming, you might refer to this Bome forum post: https://forum.bome.com/t/motormix-pan-knobs-using-mackie-mcu-protocol/1076/3 -Otherwise, it is actually Much Less Frustrating to just connect a MCP-compatible control surface, and record that kind of programming from that source - FYI. 4) Adding this ins file, and using it to map a MIDI port assignment in Cakewalk is in the Cakewalk documentation. Usage of the MIDI control in the RME TotalMix app - with an RME device, is in the RME documentation. It is best to gain a full understanding of all of those factors, before using this file, as I cannot cover all the possible options & troubleshooting. -Use the docs - they will be your official support. Normally, the basic use for this, in my workflow in Cakewalk, has been like so: I create a MIDI track in almost every project that I will play and perform with, to choose, and/or dynamically change the RME Snapshot selection, as well as the master volume level, and often the track mute states for the mixer in TotalMix, as the project plays back. -This is very useful for me, as that determines what I hear via the headphones mixes, and the output (to a PA for instance), of the complex I/O of the RME audio interface, programmatically. -Having a quick way to reference the exact notes needed to accomplish this, via changing the Instrument Definition - note names in the PRV for that control track, helps me set up and view my programming simply. Generally, just adding a note value at the default of 100 velocity, will suffice, and as mentioned, adjusting the MIDI track volume will also control the designated master out level, so it's fairly simple. -Again, for anything more complex, using an MCP-compatible control surface, routed in to the Cakewalk MIDI track, and recorded, will provide much of the rest of the possible controls (such as track fader volumes, etc.). Finally, to use Cakewalk to control RME TotalMix, both installed on the same PC, I use loopMIDI to create a set of virtual MIDI ports to connect the two apps (both are used when using a feedback-capable MIDI controller). -There are also ways to implement remote MIDI control via networking, or OSC, if you want to experiment with having Cakewalk MIDI control the RME TotalMix app on a remotely connected PC with an RME audio interface, such as from an offstage control booth to an onstage sound system. -Many possibilities, and they are still developing all the time. In any case, I hope someone finds this as useful, as I have. -Though I do still wish there was easier way to create/edit .ins files available, feel free of course to re-use or modify this one as you see fit. -Jn-

Ah yes - trying to get a good hi hat pedal simulation on digital drums - something I have wrestled with for years. I still just would rather get a real hi-hat setup and mic it, but where I live & record it would probably get me in a lot of trouble! 😅

That can be accomplished several ways in Cakewalk. I like to use plain MIDI tracks - as opposed to Instrument tracks, for inputs in Cakewalk. Then I also load VSTi synths individually (again, no instrument - combo track). If you use that method, for instance, you can create (at minimum) 2 separate MIDI tracks - 1 each for the TD-6 input, and the TD-8 input, and label them MIDI in TD-8, and MIDI in TD-6. -I don't know exact TD-series assignment details, but by your description, I would then: Set the MIDI in TD-6 track input (In / Out section in the track inspector, etc.) using "(Focusrite MIDI in) [TD-8] - MIDI Ch. 11" (again going by your drum module & chaining settings description above) - and the MIDI in TD-8 track input using "(Focusrite MIDI in) [TD-8] - MIDI Ch. 10" (those assignments names I am guessing, but you get the idea I hope!). -In that way, you can then route either, or both of those inputs, to the synth of your choice, in the output selection of each track's properties. -I don't know if SI Drums responds to multiple MIDI channels, but if you play around with the MIDI channel assignment (in the track inspector - MIDI Channel properties) you can make the output channel the same on each of the two MIDI (input) tracks, -or whatever works. Below is a simplified general example screenshot - from the track view perspective (depending on zoom, etc., you may need to adjust..) In it there are two MIDI input tracks, each uses the same MIDI device, but the input channel filter is different for each one. Then, they both output to the same synth: -In the example, I don't have Input Echo = On - so you would also need that engaged (button lights up) to play through and drive the synth - don't forget that. -You could also record both MIDI tracks, and later modify each one separately if needed, etc. -Or not. And, a similar routing could be used if you want to play MIDI tracking out to the drum modules, -provided the MIDI pass-through works that way on them, I suppose. MIDI thru has changed over the years. -You don't mention your Cakewalk MIDI output settings, maybe you don't use the modules that way. As @John Vere mentions, SI Drums is very minimal, but you could always have several instances, each with different kit pieces. -But I agree with him - on that angle you would be better off with a better drum VSTi, but that would not likely be free, of course. And then too - using the audio output(s) from the drum modules, or a combination, is possible for layering things too - unless you don't want those sounds. -But anyway - routing is the key, though it can confuse the best of us. Sounds like you are working on it - just keep at it! -I can only hope this helps.

You know, I did have an issue getting duplicate screen capture copy images out of my post at around that time too. In fact, I purposely had to close the browser, and entirely re-do my post. Again though, I don't know how the image uploads got crossed over to you - really odd!

Way too many variables inherent there, including the qualification - "better" - to answer that generally! I say - Use which ever method works best for you, in the particular tracking you are doing at the time. The name on a synth there is a default assigned by the plugin on loading - you can rename it after loading in synth rack view. Hmm... I don't think turning off a synth, well, I don't think that means what you think it means... Generally, the synth rack view can be used to insert or delete synths, and let you have another way to view their properties. There is much more in the documentation. Not sure what I can say about the rest, maybe someone else can cover that. -But you do seem to be figuring it out even as we try to keep up with stream of consciousness-ness! 😎 Just keep going - you're doing fine!

@HIBI I can see where those images came from. -I can only think that we posted at the same time, and the forum somehow combined uploaded images? I certainly did not expect that. -Knowing any solution for that is completely beyond my pay grade! -Carry on I guess. 😬