JnTuneTech

Yes, and that is one of the cultural things that Japan is very strong on, and have actually been keen on for quite some time, along with lifelike robot "friends" and the like, while all western markets got were Tamagotchi, or maybe reading news about robots like Aibo (pal or partner...), along with the ever "improving" "lifelike" robot "girlfriends". But fairly recently, an upsurge in crossover popularity & exposure for anime and manga brought along higher popularity for the related things like vocaloids, which of course do well on digital streaming by nature. Between that and live holographic technology, it's definitely all coming closer, and AI is rapidly accelerating that. For now though, it does still mostly get created and directed starting with actual people behind it. The question with AI in the mix, -literally and functionally, will be whether the public in general simply accepts entirely non-human creations, or even takes them to heart like some of the fans of Hatsune Miku can seem to do. I really wonder how it will go. I am actually looking forward to using some AI tools, to enhance my own creativity, and extend my musical capabilities, just as I do using a DAW rather than a physical mixer and dedicated recording hardware. I am even interested in things like the recent ad I saw for the IK Media Resing product, in fact, as long as I can creatively use it like I would any instrument. -What I can't imagine is just giving AI some notes and having it create a song, and then selling that. Or having it figure out and recreate all the Eagles material, as well as play it for me. What would be the point? Backing tracks can have a place, voice alteration (actually been done for years) can work, when it's done creatively, any instrument/tool should be an extension of our imagination. Helping learn is great too. But there has to be a balance, I feel anyway. I was playing at a small venue in the early 80s where David Cassidy was present. We didn't meet, but I probably would have found he was at least an actual person I could relate to somewhat, as I understood the Partridge Family was all just entertainment, not reality. On the other hand, what could I do if I was to "meet" some AI program that created an interesting composition someday - I just can't imagine. What will that even mean? But of course, Danny Bonaduce playing bass - now come on, that's really stretching it. 😁

In general, it used to be that many stage & screen actors could capably sing and dance, at minimum, for stage and auditions, before they ever got to television and the like. And conversely, many talented musicians had to mime for television or movies even though they could play circles around me live. In most cases, that's just how the business worked, and as Mr. Notes mentioned earlier here, you could either adapt or lose out. I say this also because it seems now, from everything I have seen in the past few years, in "popular" music more & more of the "artists" have likely been picked up by modern media based on whether they got a viral "following" on socials, not track record, and many of them seem to almost be complete amateurs. -And hey, sometimes that works, if they adapt and learn and grow, that's all good too. But in the past, I feel we had more genuinely trained and weathered performers, but maybe I am just older & grumpy. 😣.

You may want to check the related documentation more closely. I'll admit it took me some time in the beginning to understand the proper setup, and then options for Mackie control in CW. From the sounds of it, you have read some specific things, but maybe try looking at it all again, connecting from scratch. I have had an X-Touch controller, using default Mackie Mode, connected and working fine with SONAR, CbB and now the newer version (which I label as BCS), for quite some time now. It is set up as a control surface - Mackie profile, not an ACT controller. I have since added a smaller X-Touch Mini as an ACT controller, but don't really use it much. -But again, for me, a basic Mackie control surface device, via USB connection & standard Windows driver has been working fine for years. I also use full meter display support (which improved slightly with CbB and on), and I also even got a SONAR overlay for the full X-Touch, and that comes in handy for all the button options with Mackie control (MCP).

In my experiences over the years, I went from disdain over miming & such in things like The Partridge Family (etc.), and in fact on many televised performances from the 60s and onward, and then seeing issues like the Milli Vanilli "scandal", that just happened to expose how even some accepted industry metrics could go awry along with the acts themselves, -to eventually realizing just how big of an influence the media and technology have over the circumstances in those performances. I can even appreciate the technical & business aspects of a lot of it now. But in general, I still get put off when the balance of originality & genuine live performance goes too far off. That's where I find many sensational critics like the one mentioned at the top of this post seem to get it wrong, for me anyway. As others have pointed out here, playing a highly integrated multi-media performance takes an entirely different approach than just setting up a few amps, mics, and a PA, and just playing. And again, this has been going on from before most of us were born. But if you are a basic fan, or even a musician who never has had to do anything of that nature, just taking it literally can make it seem wrong, and as I say, I totally get that. -One of the reasons I enjoy playing covers over the years, has always been my desire to see the recorded songs I love get played to a live audience as closely arranged and mixed as possible to (what I might consider/interpret) as the original material. I found out early on how hard that can actually be, just even technically, from an audio standpoint. There is still a possibility for balance with "mimed" and copied material, just as there is in DJ mixes, Rap, and so forth. The part that unbalances it for me, is when very little of the end performance was even created by the artist on stage (or screen, what have you). That again brings up the Milli Vanilli comparison as an example. Not so much the Partridge Family, but maybe that is just a humorous reference to get started. P.S. Around the time of my enjoying one of the original Pink Floyd "The Wall" concerts in LA, was when I began to understand the core of what I describe above a lot better, and it still informs me to this day. From where I was seated, I could see both the stage show, and the massive sound pit/control center, and I realized that if all those elements hadn't been present along with the original performers doing what they did live, as a fan of the original material, I just wouldn't have enjoyed it nearly as much. And it was a balance - between using technology to both synchronize the many live performances and media elements, as well as bring in elements of the original recordings that could be created live, that was their vision. - It was still their performances, and their media, under their direction. I think that the Eagles performances being criticized are under (slightly) similar circumstances. And in fact, I would have to say, that if you go to one of those types of performances expecting a basic rock band with some amps & mics and a PA, doing an intimate live show, that would be your own error. I bet the musicians themselves can still do things, at their age, etc., that I've never managed to achieve, and that they are doing their best to present a show purposely coordinated and balanced as best as possible. Even many of the principals who did the TV show mentioned in the post title here could play and sing live but of course didn't because it wasn't that kind of a TV show. It's all in the context, there needs to be a balance of view as well I guess. Not of course, that there aren't plenty of failures to achieve the balance that I'm talking about in the music business, especially these days it seems. And now we are entering a huge challenge with use of AI versus human imagination. I hope it goes well, but I do have to wonder. -Jn-

Add my thanks for the updated versions, it all looks great, and I look forward to trying more of them now! I guess what comes to mind now also, and I apologize if this is covered elsewhere and I missed that, but why don't at least some of these types of tools not get into the ProChannel, -without optionally adding them as an FX Chain item manually? Is the programming for PC modules not part of forward updates for Sonar? I had read that PC modules were VST3 based, but maybe I am wrong. As for feedback, so far, I have only used the Core Effects as separate items, without opting for the auto-conversion from Sonitus DX. I am a bit worried about other legacy ProChannel items, like Style Dial FX, which I know use the legacy Sonitus fx engines. -As with probably a lot of legacy fx chain presets, no doubt, but some of that is to be expected (problems using legacy assets again, I know!). I can also report that on installing the Core Plugins, and watching the plugin scan progress, my system reported 27 new for some reason. Perhaps that is only something my system was finding present from something else, but I do have the basic scan run every startup, and this was the only recent install for me. -I was confused a bit by the install routine too, as there was no finishing confirmation, and the list of available updates did not immediately adjust either. -It is all working fine now though, -just FYI. Oh, and the 035 build Sonar Update Release install (one day after I did 033) wouldn't automatically close Sonar, when run from the toast dialog, -for me. As I say though, all good now, thanks!

I can also report similar behavior on my system, even after the newest update. -On my system, the first open after the initial 2025 06 install, the start screen froze, so I quit Sonar entirely, and reopened. Since then, the start screen will randomly have a blank list in the "recent" projects list, until I open one (from the "browse" option, or the file menu (which properly has all the MRU projects listed). Not huge enough to ask for support, but we probably aren't the only ones having this happen. FWIW. 😬

Apologies in advance if I am interpreting incorrectly here, but can't you just use the existing timecode track output to sync your device(s)? As mentioned earlier, generally a sync track on a multitrack tape was not the tempo, only the sync pulse. If the tempo changed, it was the external sequencer/device that mapped the tempo, not the stripe. -Typically, of course-, as various sync schemes do exist, but likely those original devices should still sync to the original pulse, when it is output for example from a dedicated send on your audio playback device. Some latency correction would be needed, but you could probably even record the synced device(s) outputs back to the DAW and thus combine them with the other existing (previously analog) tracks. And/or, if the master MIDI tracking output was (as is likely) a sequencer, you could also record that MIDI stream as well. -That wouldn't align things with the DAW timeline though, as mentioned, but just follow the above advice for that. -If one original MIDI part contains clear rhythm patterns, use that to tempo match the DAW, I suppose, but that can get complicated. I still have some 8 track material archived (and fading fast, no doubt) containing a Roland MC-50 MkII sequencer sync stripe, and matching sequences somewhere (hopefully) - and I will probably try the method suggested above to digitize the audio and have a way of also recording those synced MIDI parts. Mmm.. Maybe. -As you say, it would just be cool... Not really sure if I have any material worth it though!

Several good bits there, no doubt. The main ask though, is to incorporate the control into the channel strip without a 3rd party. And although the supplied plugin Channel Tools does the job, it is a separate operation to use it when mixing. Plus, it is only VST2. I do already use Channel Tools a fair amount for stereo imaging, and in fact I have a few FX chain presets where I have used the custom GUI options in the ProChannel to create some quick (though sometimes quirky) controls for what I use most often (primarily stereo image shift), but again, that requires moving away from the rest of the basic channel strip controls to use easily when mixing. A lot of digital mixers have at least independent L/R sliders instead of a single pan knob on the stereo channel strips.

At the very least, if we could get Channel Tools updated to VST3 and/or integrated as a ProChannel module, that would also be something I use for precise stereo panning a lot.

Well, I don't know the capabilities of that device, but the one I used has USB connectivity, which among other things, allows for (messing) setting up certain MIDI routing matrices and uploading them to the device, which holds several configurations you can access with a physical button. -Never worked as I expected though, except for very simple patching. -It does also have SMPTE encoding capabilities, that I never used, but interesting. Really, if patching MIDI was as simple as a one-to-many scenario, then of course you could easily lump it in with audio patching. But, it is not. Rarely is MIDI just one stream like audio.

From my experience,, the suggestion of MIDI FX would be the most likely route to satisfying much of these types of discussions, rather than something provided by the DAW. As it stands, Cakewalk provides both multiple MIDI input selection of a hardware port (live routing to multiple plugins) as described here earlier, as well as the ability to duplicate an existing (recorded) MIDI track and have each duplicate linked to the original notes - data stream. Going much farther than that would indeed be getting into higher levels of complication. I am remembering this also as I look over some of my ancient MIDI mixer hardware, which was often a PITA back in the day. Every multi-instrument scenario has so many dependencies & differing needs. Routing MIDI can be much more complicated than just recording a track, and then outputting it, and even both of those options have their own logic to design. I keep planning at looking into some of the MIDI FX options that are out there, but my memories of wrestling with my "simple" MOTU Micro Express sort of douse the enthusiasm! -But hopefully that's just me. One supposes maybe there could even be a "simple" MIDI routing & mapping utility of sorts baked into the DAW, though the devil is in the details!

BTW - If that is all you really need, there is an option to simply record what you hear from tracks - including what you "tap" in real time. For example, to record the output of your drum sampler GUI "taps", once you have the drum sampler output working to where you can hear it, as you described, look for the track output selector, in the track inspector for instance. Click on that, and change the output to "New Aux Track". Once you have created the aux track (it can be renamed and/or moved if needed BTW), "play" your drum sampler, and make sure you can see & hear the output coming from that new track, and also even as you play the existing project. Once you have that working, it is easy to enable recording on the aux track, and then record as you "tap" along, and then play that back afterwards. -It can be quick and creative for on-the-fly sound ideas, just using the mouse.

If it works as you say, then the DAW should treat it like any other hardware port - so yes, one could get the percussion note view as outlined here earlier. However, the results still wouldn't seem worth the effort or resources involved, IMHO. But, yes if it works for you - carry on!

Not typically, no. In general, a virtual MIDI port utility provides a way to connect separate MIDI-aware applications running on the same PC, not within a DAW or app itself. There are certain workarounds, but they are not likely what the OP here would be looking for. -If you do want to try something for fun (?) you can use a standalone version of a Drum Sampler/Synth (many provide both a VST and standalone implementation), and connect it though virtual MIDI port(s) to your DAW. Then one can use the port mapping & GM MIDI drums definition method outlined above. However, most of the time that would not be practical, and depending on your audio device & drivers, it may not work at all. Definitely a bad use of system resources. The limitations of MIDI make "loopback" a bad word, because creating a MIDI feedback loop can really stop things cold, including the entire OS on your PC. -Now that would certainly qualify as "wretchedness" - at least in my book! 😅

Pardon my adding in here, but it sounds like you are both referring to the PRV display when the MIDI track's output selection is using a mapped instrument definition, and one that has the programming note @Starship Krupa mentioned to force display of the notes as percussion. -In the example above, I also went into the right-click menu for the keyboard/note names section, and changed the default, which was blank at first. -The option to set this up does only come around when you are selecting a hardware output, AFAIK. It can be done via the "Configure..." option in the dialog as represented above, or from Preferences > MIDI > Instruments. -It can be setup without an actual hardware port, by using a virtual port (such as loopMIDI, etc.) , or, if you are not needing to monitor the playback of the notes (I know some folks who can write music without hearing it first {not me!}, you can also use the mapping temporarily (see the Save Changes... checkbox) on an existing hardware port to experiment if you like. In the examples above, I have used default instrument/note definitions included in Cakewalk products for years now. The ones that have "drums" in the name usually have the percussion view flag enabled. Now, I wanted to follow on to a previous post here, and state that while note mapping can be handy, and with time & patience (!) can be created/edited manually, I still find that creating/modifying a Drum Map is what I choose for in-depth day-to-day drum programming. It gets me the note names and selected organization in a few steps. I also prefer standard note view in PRV for drums, as it gives me the option of creating note lengths that help me see the intended dynamics - as it would be in an actual Piano Roll for say a player piano or music box. -But that's just me. In any case, there are lots of choices, and I only wish I had been able to learn these things more quickly when I was getting started. That still frustrates me - finding examples & detailed, easy to search documentation using real-world procedures. -Of course, I am just slow sometimes, I will easily admit.

So, the same principles apply as above. Each VST has its own settings to configure. MIDI files have several options within them. You would need to have the two matching, otherwise you get the issue you describe where meters show activity, but no sound from the VST. -Provided of course that you have a sound device connected. Just remember, MIDI is not sound, just instructions for how to play sound. A hardware organ, for instance, or a VST and a sound device need to be connected, and set up properly, in order for the MIDI playback to work audibly.

That part I cannot answer, as again I am not familiar with your hardware. It's probably best if you can find a manual for the organ, to determine what the MIDI channel settings are at minimum. Generally what you describe happens when the MIDI being sent is on the wrong channel for the instrument, but it could be many things. -Keep learning how MIDI works and find out the specifics of your device, and learn the tools that can help you get Cakewalk and your organ on the same page, and you will get there!

It should work, provided that the standards of the MIDI files you copied are within the standards that Cakewalk commonly accepts. -Regardless of that, if the organ accepts MIDI control, you should be able to figure out some sort of compatibility to have the organ play MIDI files from Cakewalk. It is certainly used for that purpose, and from my experience - once you learn the tools, it can do a lot with MIDI control.

Welcome to the forum! -So, a basic answer to your question is - yes, Cakewalk is well suited to playing and editing, even creating MIDI files, and will play them out to most any standard MIDI capable device. While the details of your post include some hardware I am not familiar with, if it uses basic MIDI standards, it may be very easy. The MIDI files you mention may work either opened as a project, or imported into a project, as long as they are in a standard format. The rest of the answer would depend on what the hardware organ requires, and then the PC will require at least MIDI output hardware , and the appropriate connectivity between the two is needed to complete the picture. Having that, if the MIDI files open, the next steps would be determining if they will properly drive the organ, or if they need adjustment to match the desired output & playback.

Well, in reading this thread over several weeks now, I seem to glean only that everyone has differing tastes on working with percussion MIDI in CbB & Sonar. So far I can only agree generally about the definite issues of naming conventions, and challenges learning/discovering the drum map and PRV note name toolset itself. I began many moons ago discovering MIDI mapping tools, and have since lost the taste for default sample maps and drum grid views, but that's not to say I won't use them, when it seems the best fit for the material being edited. I do find that any time a drum map view seems empty, it will be a view setting carried over from a previous session, or just a wrong track output assignment/selection. I get what I click, though there are the odd times when editing a drum map that the PRV doesn't immediately update when doing modifications. I then close, re-open. A few clicks. As others have stated, understanding & organizing the maps & templates is a bit clunky, -once you finally learn how they are set up by default, of course, and that selectively changing that helps a lot. For me doing that also helps backup the data, though it's never as critical as realizing the exact drum map(s) you want are saved within each project anyway. Whether it's little rectangles, or asterisks, note views can be entirely up to each project, so it seems good there is a choice. Sorting the view really seems to be the key tool to have, for me. I mostly hate the default instrument mapping in drum synths, and am happy to do away with duplications and have only instruments I need for the project at hand, organized by my tastes. I happen to mostly prefer using note value views (rectangles), as I use them in varying sizes to visually emphasize certain aspects of dynamics, not to mention that several samplers I use have uses for varying note values on select instrument notes. Everyone has their comfort zone, but drum maps did seem a bit complex to me at first. I don't know if that could quite be called wretchedness, but that is a colorful way of putting it!

I don't really know the MD plugin, in fact hearing that you found it to be advertised as "multi-out by default" is quite interesting. I do know that they do, as most samplers will, offer or have vendors for different sample sets, -"kits" of course, and sometimes additional percussion & whatnot. In my experience, loading different sample sets is not something you want to do by a program change. Generally, I will load a separate instance of the sampler to "add on" parts like percussion, for instance, and just point the instruments MIDI note(s) to the proper instance (kit) using either the drum map, or just pointing the proper MIDI track output specifically. You haven't mentioned it, but I hope you have found out how each "kit" has its own note map - settings in the plugin itself as well. For instance, if the snare is not mapped to the GM number you want, you can either change the MIDI note(s) in the track, or just change the sampler "Kit piece" to respond on what mapping you want. And yes, you will be looking for other sampler plugins to handle the rest of the melodic MIDI parts. Depending on how the tracks were composed originally, they may also be reliant on GM patch changes, which was very common, and as @Promidi mentioned, you are best off trying to stick with legacy VST2 plugins for the most compatibility with that. -As I mentioned in another thread here, Roland is still selling license keys for the Sound Canvas VA VST2 plugin through the end of September, but it is being discontinued in the cloud & support options going forwards. Otherwise, I would recommend that for a quick playback of older MIDI tracks with GM format & patch changes, etc., - and of course that one is not a free plugin either.

It's great that you got some of the drums instruments to play, sounds like you are well on your way. I will agree that using the multiple outs method may be a bit much, and you can certainly just achieve playback with only one stereo output on a drum sampler. Still, it can be useful later if you decide to convert each kit piece to audio for very granular mixing. -I happen to do that a lot, and am in fact currently using a project that splits the drum MIDI out into 6 separate parts, going to respective mixable outputs, and that comes in handy come mixdown time. But if that's not needed, just run one instance of the drum sampler, and point all drum (Ch. 10 in your case) MIDI outputs to the drum synth, use a standard primary stereo output from that, and it will be simpler, especially for previewing. Some effort may be necessary to "fine tune" and get things to match up better (or at all), and although others may argue, I find that, especially once you know what MIDI input mapping your drum synth - kit is set up with (and that usually has options), it is a quick matter to add a drum map to a project, assign it to the drum MIDI track(s) one by one, and instantly have a view of what notes are there to be assigned to start out with. -There are other methods, to be sure, such as just using an instrument definition from the default GM sets to overlay on the basic PRV keyboard, for instance. But trying any of that is relatively painless, and if you don't find it useful, -just remove the map! In keeping with some folks who like to explain step by step: I will take a project, or often just an older MIDI file opened and then saved as a project, and look at the MIDI track assignments. If there is a Ch. 10 MIDI track, chances are it contains GM drum MIDI, especially if it was formatted years ago, and especially if it has been assigned to a legacy GM multitimbral synth such as Sound Canvas. It is often even labeled "Drums" if you have opened the file directly. So, I will now assign a GM (or usually Roland GS Standard) format drum map to the likely drum MIDI track material's track output. -You don't even have to have a synth plugged in at that point. Once the drum map is assigned to the MIDI track's output (it does involve a few steps at 1st), I close the Drum Map tool. Then, I select the MIDI track in question, and use PRV to see what is on the track visually. If, as older MIDI files often are, the drum kit pieces (note numbers) used in the file are set up to GM standards, you will visually see notes in place that are already matching the GM template (kick, snare, etc.) in the map view. Anything else that is not, will show up as "unassigned". From there, I usually refer to a working playback (audio, or other GM synth playback) version of the MIDI file/track, to figure out what is playing where the "undefined" notes show up. For most pop material, it's usually pretty simple. -The steps after that vary for me, depending on the drum sampler I want to use. -There are other ways, and of course other issues too, as MIDI can have inline data that may change the actual playback parameters, and that won't show in a drum map. -But getting the basic drum kit instrument piece assignments working with this method gets things started for me very quickly, with older GM standard formatted material. And even if it's not GM, you can visually make out the general patterns and label/assign them quickly. Your mileage may vary, of course!

Welcome to the forum, and hopefully this will point you in the right direction. 😅 If I read into your question correctly, you seem to need info on changing an existing project to put Monster Drums in as an output to your existing MIDI - which can be very useful indeed. If that is the case, let us in on what you currently have set to play the drum track (if anything at all), so we can point you to a few ways to do that. I can only assume that you may also need to map older, possibly GM formatted. drum MIDI parts, so that they will play your choice of drum sampler/synth. -If so, there are many options, starting with deciding whether to map the MIDI to the drums, or perhaps just map the drums to the MIDI. That's the 1st step, and your choices can vary depending on items such as whether you know the format of the drum MIDI you want to use, and whether or not your drum sampler/synth has built in mapping options. In most cases, with Cakewalk I would recommend to start with learning to use the Drum Maps tool. It can make the process easier to visualize, and often you can find default maps to get you started. Then, learn how to find and use the instrument mapping available for your drum sampler/synth. Together you can create a clear, but flexible match up. -I used to be worried that the Drum Map tool was too difficult, but now actually, having opened it and actually tried it, starting on some older GM files, I have since found it to be a quick and easy way to visually check, and set up any older existing drum MIDI with a different sampler/synth rather quickly. -Of course, if you don't think you need that, then just change the output of your drum MIDI tracks to a different sampler/synth of your choice, hit play, and go from there. Everyone finds their favorite method, and just playing and/or mapping the MIDI is not going to wreck anything in the track itself. -I would recommend using copies of the original tracking though, just in case. -As a note, in many cases much of the drum MIDI from the days you mention in your post was often GM (or a variant) formatted, and that is fairly easy to sort out. If your drum MIDI track comes set initially to MIDI channel 10. it is usually an indicator of that. Even if it's not, you will be able to use the Drum Map tool to sort and label what you have fairly quickly. Anyway, the goal, again if I read correctly, is to output, and possibly map the drum MIDI in the old files to the drum instrument assignments in a different sampler/synth, or vice-versa, and it will take some time, but in the end if you develop the mapping skills, it will get somewhat easier! Start by putting a Drum Map, and then a preset, on one of your older drum MIDI tracks, then have the track output to an instance of Monster Drums. Reference the Drum Map section in the Cakewalk documentation, and the mapping info for your sampler/synth, and give it a go!

BTW - Roland is also discontinuing support for the Sound Canvas VST. For now, you can still buy a license key for it, but support and development will end after September, according to their news posting. I have used it for many years, and it is the same or better than TTS-1, -of course they are from the same code base. Your mileage will vary, but for as long as Windows and your DAW will handle the final VST2 version, it may be one of the last classic GM multitimbral plugins that basically defined the category, for ease of use and depth of patches, on GM compatible files and projects. But usage of that seems to be fading, and so it goes.

BTW - If you like to track covers in CbB (Sonar, etc.) and also use the Notes/File Stats tab as a view option for info, lyrics, what have you, using Discogs listings pics for your project is a fun way to keep the original content source in mind. And in the past few years, I found most of the graphic icons they use are almost perfect for the optimal view in the notes graphic icon import in CbB. Just use a search for the artist, album, single, and pull the (usually) jpg files right from the results page. You might even find those graphics useful if you collect & organize your audio references, etc. @craigb perhaps you already have a system for that with your collecting? If not, Discogs works great (at least currently) as a quick source for graphics too. Now, I wish I could find some of the concert program handouts I had gotten over the years, or even scanned copies from a reliable source. -But perhaps now I am also really too far in the completionist arena with that idea - doh!