Varispeeding Vocals

[scottcmusic]

Is anybody aware of a way within CbB to varispeed an audio file of a song down a few steps? If not directly in the DAW, how about a plugin?

I usually layer all my parts up myself, including vocals. The trouble there is, it can be really obvious sometimes to the listener that it's the same guy singing all the parts himself. I'm interested in the varispeeding technique Jamie Lidell  demonstrates in this video. You pitch the song down (or up) and layer the vocals in that pitch. Then, you return the file to regular speed and you have different timbres for your BGV parts.

 

 

[mettelus]

This is not so much the use of varispeed (workflow vehicle) as it is the change in formant (end result). MeldaProduction's MAutoPitch is part of their free FX bundle, and will tap into the formants directly without requiring a pitch shift. I would give that a try and see how the results work for your material.

[scottcmusic]

I got a pretty good formants tool in Melodyne ... I'm not as interested in that part of it as I am the ability to finally be able to sing high harmonies above the melody that would normally be above my range. I want to build up some BGVs Todd Rundgren style just using my own voice. So, I need something that lets me lower the pitch of a master WAV file. Then, once I sing the vocals, and re-pitch to the original key, I could then paste in the BGV tracks into my song file. He demonstrates this in the video pretty well. Thanks for your input.

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by scottcmusic

[ZincT]

@scottcmusic This has been asked before and there is a thread from Craig Anderton as well as another thread in which he responds. Hopefully something in here will help ....

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/2940-varispeed-workaround/

http://forum.cakewalk.com/Here-Are-Your-Sonar-quotTape-Varispeedquot-Solutions-Come-and-Get-39Em-m3020405.aspx 

[scook]

Yeah, those threads are part of what went into chapter 11 in The Huge Book of Cakewalk By BandLab Tips by Craig Anderton

Pretty handy reference for $20.

[scottcmusic]

Awesome. Will take a peek.

[scottcmusic]

Cool. Ask and ye shall receive. This from Craig (thanks):

"This was a common technique with analog tape: Slow it down or speed it up, sing along, then return the speed to normal and the voice would be on pitch but have a different formant and character. Here’s how to do this with Sonar.
 
1. Create a premix of the song that starts at the beginning. Mute all other tracks.
2. Open the premix in the Loop Construction window.
3. From the Clip drop-down menu, enable Stretch On/Off.
4. Move the Threshold slider all the way to the left (0%) so all the markers disappear. This is very important.
5. The two right-most fields adjust semitones and cents respectively. Do not enable the Pitch button! That will just confuse things. Cents will adjust +/-49 cents which should be enough. If not, for example if you need to make the pitch 70 cents sharp, set semitones to 1 and cents to -30. (For Chipmunk effects, set semitones to +12 .)
6. After adjusting the pitch, create a track and record the new clip while monitoring the premix.
7. If you started recording anyplace other than the beginning, slip edit the new clip to the beginning, bounce the clip to itself to add this extra length, then open the clip in the Loop Construction window.
8. Repeat steps 3-5, but this time, adjust pitch equal and oppositely. For example if the premix was -36 cents, set cents for the new clip to +36.
9. Bounce the new clip to itself, and now it will be at the correct pitch and tempo but with a different formant and character. You may need to trim the end, as Sonar will still think this is a loop and repeat part of the beginning. You can now delete the premix."

[chuckebaby]

If there is one thing I truly miss about the analog days was the ease of use... of a pitch knob.

[msmcleod]

8 minutes ago, chuckebaby said:

If there is one thing I truly miss about the analog days was the ease of use... of a pitch knob.

It was very useful when struggling to sing those odd high notes!

[marcL]

1 hour ago, chuckebaby said:

If there is one thing I truly miss about the analog days was the ease of use... of a pitch knob.

But it would still be possible to be implemented, see the Tascam 2488neo, it has it and it is also just an interface with a DAW software! And also in other DAWs and even in Audacity you can find a function like this (change speed affecting also the pitch without artifacts).

Edited December 7, 2019 by marled

[scottcmusic]

Exactly you guys. It's actually harder and more involved to do this in the current day with modern technology than it was in the old days when you would just twiddle a knob. There's a plugin idea for someone!  An effective, life -like varispeed control for digital audio.

What I also really want to do is, on the Beatles song "Rain", and even "Strawberry Fields" at certain parts, the tape was sped up, George would tune to it, record his part, then when they slow it back down to normal speed, his guitar has this ethereal and very trippy timber to it that you can't get any other way.

Edited December 9, 2019 by scottcmusic

[Craig Anderton]

On 12/6/2019 at 11:39 AM, scook said:

Yeah, those threads are part of what went into chapter 11 in The Huge Book of Cakewalk By BandLab Tips by Craig Anderton

Pretty handy reference for $20.

Thanks for the props! Re the $20, one of the great things about a 411-page  eBook (with all those four-color pictures) is you don't have to charge the same kind of price that print requires. 

[scottcmusic]

The book is great. Just the workflow stuff alone is worth 20 chops. It has the through zero flanging trick too, which I had been trying to hunt down.

Edited December 9, 2019 by scottcmusic

[scook]

4 minutes ago, scottcmusic said:

It has the through zero flanging trick too

One of my favorites

I learned it from Craig's video series on X1. Glad it was added to the book.

[scottcmusic]

Have you found a way to alter the flanging over time? I haven't tried Craig's trick yet myself, but am very interested in using it to get the Journey "Anytime That You Want Me" flanging where the whole band is affected. When you do this with an actual tape deck, you place one finger on the flange of one of the reels to affect flanging in real time almost like you would a wah pedal. So it can be very expressive that way. You are playing the flanger like an instrument. Is there a way to tweak this in real time to  manually modulate this parameter with Craig's workaround?

Edited December 9, 2019 by scottcmusic

[scook]

Automation

The video is very good. Maybe a little easier to follow than a printed description, if only because one can heard the results.

Even though it was developed for X1 a lot if it is relevant to CbB.

It is too bad they are not available today.

 

[Kev]

On 12/8/2019 at 1:03 AM, chuckebaby said:

If there is one thing I truly miss about the analog days was the ease of use... of a pitch knob.

I'm dreaming of a future technology that allows you to speed up and slow down audio playback by means of a continuously variable sample rate.

[Craig Anderton]

23 hours ago, scottcmusic said:

Have you found a way to alter the flanging over time? I haven't tried Craig's trick yet myself, but am very interested in using it to get the Journey "Anytime That You Want Me" flanging where the whole band is affected. 

scook is correct, automation does the job.

When I've wanted to flange the entire mix, not just individual tracks, it can be dicey to put the flanger in the master bus, go from bypass to enabled, and get the flanging right. What works for me is to copy the portion of the mix I want flanged (including a little bit of the track before and after the section), flange it, then drop it back in place of the copied section. Having a little more than needed allows doing a crossfade for a seamless transition.

[Craig Anderton]

23 hours ago, scook said:

The video is very good. Maybe a little easier to follow than a printed description, if only because one can heard the results.

Even though it was developed for X1 a lot if it is relevant to CbB.

It is too bad they are not available today.

I've often thought I should update them, but unfortunately, it would take a lot of effort due to the GUI changes over the years. It would basically be like starting from scratch. So far Cakewalk isn't interested in selling any of my Cakewalk-related products, and I don't think I could sell enough videos on my reverb.com microsite to justify the time. But never say never...

[Craig Anderton]

On 12/7/2019 at 9:34 AM, marled said:

But it would still be possible to be implemented, see the Tascam 2488neo, it has it and it is also just an interface with a DAW software! And also in other DAWs and even in Audacity you can find a function like this (change speed affecting also the pitch without artifacts).

It's in CbB, too, in the Loop Construction window. I'll often dump a final mix in there, prior to mastering, just to do the old tape varispeed trick.