Recording from Line 6 Helix LT sums to mono in Sonar CW

[Matt Rowson]

Trying to record stereo guitar signal from my Helix LT connected via USB.

The guitar preset is stero, and is heard in stero through the monitoring headphones connected to Helix.

Cakewalk project heard through headphones in stereo as well (previously recorded instruments.

I select USB 1/2 - Stereo to record, and the recorded track in Cakewalk shows L and R channels, but they are both summed to mono, even when panned L and R.

Can anyone see what I might be doing wrong.

Thanks

This pic is from my Line 6 Helix LT Preset output, which is the recommended setting to record stereo

Edited Thursday at 10:41 PM by Matt Rowson

[57Gregy]

Try recording 2 mono inputs on separate tracks (L on 1 track, R on the other) and see what happens.
 

[David Baay]

I would think the stereoization of the (presumably) mono input from the guitar is happening at the output. So, you're recording a dual mono dry signal and it's getting stereoized on playback (and when monitoring, whether direct or via Input Echo) through the Helix. If the Helix doesn't offer an option to record from the output via internal loopback in the console app, you're going to have to setup a manual loopback.

[mettelus]

How the OP is set up should be correct (online help here for hardware units), the only mono output from the HELIX is the DI out (USB 7).

Quick clarification, are you recording a guitar into Cakewalk or re-amping? The image in the OP is confusing me because that track is in stereo, just both sides appear to be identical.

The only other quick question is do you have HX Edit installed? The HELIX has its own ASIO drivers (included in HX Edit, and possibly an issue here), so I was wondering why you are using WASAPI Shared mode and not ASIO?

[Matt Rowson]

21 minutes ago, mettelus said:

How the OP is set up should be correct (online help here for hardware units), the only mono output from the HELIX is the DI out (USB 7).

Quick clarification, are you recording a guitar into Cakewalk or re-amping? The image in the OP is confusing me because that track is in stereo, just both sides appear to be identical.

The only other quick question is do you have HX Edit installed? The HELIX has its own ASIO drivers (included in HX Edit, and possibly an issue here), so I was wondering why you are using WASAPI Shared mode and not ASIO?

Thanks.

Guitar direct into cakewalk (not re-amping)

Yes, i am trying to record stereo signla from helix  (Helix 1/2 Stereo into Cakewalk) which is recording L and R, but you are correct in noticing that both L and R are identical. This is where the propblem is - the guitar preset i am using in helix is stereo and should be slightly different, but it both L and R in cakewalk are the same mono result.

HX Edit - Yes, i have that installed. But when i select ASIO i get these screens...

 

[Base 57]

Maybe Interleave is set to mono?

[Bristol_Jonesey]

2 hours ago, Matt Rowson said:

Thanks.

Guitar direct into cakewalk (not re-amping)

Yes, i am trying to record stereo signla from helix  (Helix 1/2 Stereo into Cakewalk) which is recording L and R, but you are correct in noticing that both L and R are identical. This is where the propblem is - the guitar preset i am using in helix is stereo and should be slightly different, but it both L and R in cakewalk are the same mono result.

HX Edit - Yes, i have that installed. But when i select ASIO i get these screens...

 

The driver listed above is ASIO4ALL, not ASIO.

Go on the Helix website and see if they offer a true ASIO driver.

[mettelus]

For the ASIO part, here is something else to try. Windows has been terrible with letting the first app that needs audio to take control of a device and this wreaks havoc on audio interfaces. Start with the HELIX on and plugged into the computer with HX Edit open. Then open "Sound Settings" in the Windows search bar, and click "Sound Control Panel" in the upper right. In that popup, set the Realtek as the default device for playback, that way the audio interface can only be used by an app that you choose to let see it (not Windows). Then highlight the HELIX and click on Properties. On the "Enhancements" tab at the top, make sure "Disable all sound effects" is checked, then on the "Advanced" tab be sure the default format matches your project and that both items in the "Exclusive Mode" box are unchecked. Just for good measure, in the "Spatial sound" tab, make sure that is off. Apply those changes and open Sonar and see if you can shift modes to ASIO then. I always start the HELIX, open HX Edit, then start the DAW. HX Edit is far simpler for me when sitting at a computer (no need to bend over to tweak knobs/buttons when you can do it with a mouse), but now I am sort of wondering if that should be open anyway to force the HELIX to be talking to the computer properly.

Even in WASAPI mode as long as the drivers are loaded it should work fine. A quick check would be another patch that has an obvious ping pong delay or rotary in it so the channels coming from the HELIX are clearly different. Some patches carried forward from other firmware versions (or downloaded from LINE6's site) do not always port to the newer firmware 100%, so slapping a ping pong delay on a factory patch would be best. As long as you have Firmware and HX Edit versions > 3.0, I think they all talk properly, but the newest version of both is always best.

Also, have you tried the LINE 6 forums? Although some of us here have the HELIX, I have never seen your issue before (and it is really confusing me as to why). The LINE 6 community might have insight as well.

Edited 19 hours ago by mettelus

[Matt Rowson]

Thanks.

I'll double check some of those suggestions.

I have posted the same on Line 6 forum too, no responses yet, but will see if anyone comes up with any suggestions.

Thanks.

[mettelus]

Maybe one of the reasons I am confused is the OP picture. Sonar is recording a "stereo" track, so that leads me to believe that is what is coming out of the HELIX  and is what SONAR is seeing (2 channels, identical or not). The interleave button as @Base 57 mentioned above is also something to check (especially if a track will not pan). If Sonar is truly seeing only one channel, another quick check is to "Bounce to Track(s)" that track in the OP and choose "Split Mono." This will create two mono tracks with the left and right channels separated. If you then phase invert one of those channels (on the track view) and solo those two tracks, they will sum to nothing when played back if truly identical.... when you said "slight differences" between channels, they should sum to "something." My concern is that some effects convert to "stereo" by simply duplicating a mono track left and right with a very minute delay between them. Again, the same test with a factory preset with obvious left/right differences will immediately point out if there is a handshake issue between the HELIX and Sonar (if that sums to zero, the bakers on both sides of the fence may need to get involved).

Lastly, is this a factory preset you are using or one you created or downloaded? I can check it out this weekend on mine if I know which preset/snapshot it is or can load it. If it is one you modified or downloaded, they are small, so you can attach them to a post here. I just need the preset/snapshot from it where you are seeing this problem to test it on my end. I downloaded a Dan Huff preset with >1000 5-star ratings a couple weeks ago and literally cannot get it to output anything unless the input to path 2A is the guitar (bypassing half the FX chain and making it useless)... an obvious bug with porting it forward, so I was planning to dissect/rebuild/tweak that this weekend anyway. Checking out another preset along the way won't be a big deal if you want me to test it on my end.

Edited 9 hours ago by mettelus

[Bass Guitar]

I noticed in the screenshot that the OP was not using ASIO because when you use ASIO you don’t see the unwanted inputs and outputs. And the device will be listed with ASIO in the text. 
 

There is definitely a proper ASIO Driver on the website as I just checked. So this is undoubtedly the problem. 
 

Simply download and install the driver. 

I recommend when troubleshooting audio issues to open Windows sound settings and disable all audio devices except the device that you want to use. You can re-enable them later. 
 

As well as it is also a good idea to remove any 3rd party ASIO drivers - Realtek, Asio4all, Steinberg and Magix as example. The best method is to use the RegEdit Look under Software/ ASIO. 
Delete everything but legitimate ASIO drivers. Sonar cannot usually co-exist with these drivers. Therefore the warning you got. 

Now restart computer and double check that the audio interface is the Windows sound device. You can simply click on the speaker icon in the task bar. 
 

Now make sure that your Daw is set to ASIO mode. 

Edited 12 hours ago by Bass Guitar

[Matt Rowson]

I wasnt seeing the ASIO Helix drivers - that was the issue.

Re downoaded drivers and they are there now.

 

All sorted and working.

 

THANK YOU everyone for your help and suggestions - appreciate the time you all gave to my problem.

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Matt Rowson

[mettelus]

Excellent. Thank you for posting the solution. Best of luck with everything!

[Matt Rowson]

3 hours ago, mettelus said:

Excellent. Thank you for posting the solution. Best of luck with everything!

Thank you all for your help.

It's great when forums are helpful and kind!  

(and not condescending and belittling like some i've been on before!)

[mettelus]

Quick update for you from my downloaded preset "issue" I mentioned above (or for anyone here that may see this issue). This thread from the Line 6 forums has good info and the issue is almost always (probably 90% of the time) that the input is set to something specific (like Variax), so shifting it to "Multi" or "Guitar" will make things good. What I did not think about till I saw that post was that some presets have hardware loop blocks in them (which will interrupt the chain if not connected), but the more obvious one (and my issue with the "Dan Huff, Kinda" preset) is there is a Volume block (straight up volume) that was assigned to zero volume as its default. These are often assigned to an expression pedal, and because the unit has more than one, I didn't think to switch the expression pedal over. The solution for that is to either remove the Volume block entirely (I have gotten used to the volume knob, so don't use a pedal for that) or set the volume default to 100. In either case, once you resolve the issue, re-save the downloaded preset.

I hadn't downloaded any presets in a long while, so grabbed 8 that came to mind last weekend but only had issues with that one. Unfortunately, even with that issue resolved, none of the snapshots are very close to what I was seeking, so I am going to have to make one from scratch anyway

Edited 1 hour ago by mettelus