Reamping with Sonar.

[brandon]

8 hours ago, Bass Guitar said:

@mettelus Yes exactly what I was thinking. The whole thing is all about taking a lame DI recording and sweetening it up with some big fat overtones. 
You can do amazing stuff with the latest versions of  all the Guitar sims and I think it’s really what most people are happy with. 

But for a person like myself who has always had some sort of Tube amp the sims fall just a little short of the sound Im after. It’s not just the tubes, the speaker is also part of that sound. 
 

I almost always record my electric guitar through my amps. That sound never lets me down. 
But sometimes Im just goofing around and it would be way too loud for my family to put up with so it’s the DI thing as last resort. 
 

But I think it’s that same elusive sound that has a lot of top notch recording engineers using older analog outboard hardware. Then there’s the analog synths too. Once you’ve heard it - then it gets stuck in your head. The in the box sound never gets you exactly where you want to be. 
 

I think re amping is just a fancy word for using hardware after the fact. David’s suggestion of using an insert is something that I have never tried before. I don’t think many Daw’s support it. Im using Platinum and I think the insert was added later on. 
 

I looked up the Scarlett 2i4 2nd Gen and it works exactly like my 6i6. That was the interface I used as described above. 

 

 

 

 

So instead of reamping it is now possible to mix my project with a line out (via my AI) from the already recorded guitar track through a couple of hardware effects pedals and back into Sonar?

[brandon]

3 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

Check again mate, I'm sure the EI has been around for a long time.

EI ?

[AB99]

I have been a little confused with this thread.  If reamping a guitar, I am assuming there is a guitar part that is recorded on a track, perhaps with a DI.  (It could also be a guitar virtual instrument, by the way.)  Then that is outputed to an amp.  But then why wouldn't the amped guitar being recorded with a microphone be placed on another track?  And if there is a latency issue, then slide the newly recorded track to match the original recorded track.  And then mix those tracks and everything else that has been recorded on all all tracks.  I do not understand why there has to be a mixing issue at the time of recording the reamped part until after it is on its separate track and the whole project is mixed.  

To the post above about the speaker being part of the sound in the reamping, that is true.  But also the mic, preamp and any compression choices can also affect the tone.  There are a lot of variables.  And that is what makes it interesting from just simply a DI recording.   
 

[Bristol_Jonesey]

2 hours ago, brandon said:

EI ?

External Insert

[Bass Guitar]

@brandon

What you are proposing is simply looping the output of the Daw through hardware and then recording it once satisfied with the results. 

It most certainly does not have to be an amp or so called re- amping device. 

I’ve had my Lexicon mx200 connected in my system for a long time. Lots of my older projects you will find a stereo track called Lexicon. That is exactly what you are proposing. 

The beauty of just using a pedal board is that you don’t need a Mike. Just return it to your interface and you will hear the results in your studio monitors. 
 

I think lots of people loop to a pedal board and record the sound. Possibility’s are endless. 
 

Im redoing my studio but when done I am hoping to have everything connected using my Yamaha OV1 as a dedicated patch bay for all my hardware effects and midi sound modules. 
 

That way everything is always connected.
With the mixer I can change guitars or grab my bass etc and that way I only need a 2 input interface. But it needs 4 outputs for looping.
 

As far as how you get the original guitar track to output 3/4 try the suggestions listed above and pick the one that suits your needs. 
I would want to be able to mute the original without it killing the 3/4 outputs for looping. So a send pre fader on the track would be ideal. 

[mettelus]

4 hours ago, AB99 said:

I have been a little confused with this thread.  If reamping a guitar, I am assuming there is a guitar part that is recorded on a track, perhaps with a DI.  (It could also be a guitar virtual instrument, by the way.)  Then that is outputed to an amp.  But then why wouldn't the amped guitar being recorded with a microphone be placed on another track?  And if there is a latency issue, then slide the newly recorded track to match the original recorded track.  And then mix those tracks and everything else that has been recorded on all all tracks.  I do not understand why there has to be a mixing issue at the time of recording the reamped part until after it is on its separate track and the whole project is mixed.  

To the post above about the speaker being part of the sound in the reamping, that is true.  But also the mic, preamp and any compression choices can also affect the tone.  There are a lot of variables.  And that is what makes it interesting from just simply a DI recording.   
 

I am pretty sure that recording to a new track and monitoring it real-time is the OP's intention and original question. Essentially he is looking to match tone to the project for that recording pass, but there would be additional post-production involved as you suggested.

[AB99]

6 minutes ago, mettelus said:

I am pretty sure that recording to a new track and monitoring it real-time is the OP's intention and original question. Essentially he is looking to match tone to the project for that recording pass, but there would be additional post-production involved as you suggested.

Thanks!  

[David Baay]

6 hours ago, brandon said:

So instead of reamping it is now possible to mix my project with a line out (via my AI) from the already recorded guitar track through a couple of hardware effects pedals and back into Sonar?

Yes, but the key to your amp's "re-amping facility" (I assume) is that the re-amping input matches the low-impedance, high-level, balanced output from your interface to the high-impedance, low level, unbalanced input of the amplifier's pre-amp circuit so that it behaves the same as if the signal were from a guitar. If you're going to use pedal FX designed for a guitar signal, you should ideally use a stand-alone re-amping box between the interface and the pedals to do the same thing:

 

Edited 12 hours ago by David Baay

[Glenn Stanton]

All Impedance Matters®

AIM for Greatness®

Edited 12 hours ago by Glenn Stanton

[brandon]

4 hours ago, Bass Guitar said:

@brandon

What you are proposing is simply looping the output of the Daw through hardware and then recording it once satisfied with the results. 

It most certainly does not have to be an amp or so called re- amping device. 

I’ve had my Lexicon mx200 connected in my system for a long time. Lots of my older projects you will find a stereo track called Lexicon. That is exactly what you are proposing. 

The beauty of just using a pedal board is that you don’t need a Mike. Just return it to your interface and you will hear the results in your studio monitors. 
 

I think lots of people loop to a pedal board and record the sound. Possibility’s are endless. 
 

Im redoing my studio but when done I am hoping to have everything connected using my Yamaha OV1 as a dedicated patch bay for all my hardware effects and midi sound modules. 
 

That way everything is always connected.
With the mixer I can change guitars or grab my bass etc and that way I only need a 2 input interface. But it needs 4 outputs for looping.
 

As far as how you get the original guitar track to output 3/4 try the suggestions listed above and pick the one that suits your needs. 
I would want to be able to mute the original without it killing the 3/4 outputs for looping. So a send pre fader on the track would be ideal. 

To your first point. I am looping the output from an already recorded dry guitar track in Sonar through hardware and then back into Sonar. Reamping might be new to some folk - it means sending a recorded guitar signal to (for example) an amplifier and then processing that signal with effects, eq, etc before sending it back to be recorded. 

However the crux of the matter is you simply cant do this with what is essentially a wav file. The signal needs to be converted to a HI Z level so that the amp can recognise it. Its basically the opposite of DI ing.

To add to this what I want to do is listen to my whole project while I am processing the signal so that I get get a perfect sound before actually recording it.

[mettelus]

1 hour ago, brandon said:

[...] before actually recording it.

This is really the conundrum IMO. Why go through the pain of a loopback when you can simply loop a portion of the song and play to it on the amp (matching volume levels as needed) to make your adjustments? If you are not using that recorded loopback (so not really re-amping) in the final project as you intend to "actually record it," there are much simpler methods to adjust tone (and a sizeable chunk of them can be done in post-production). I have a friend who runs "his tone" (never modifies it for that genre) from a Blackstar amp and all adjustments are made in mixing/post-production. 

[Bass Guitar]

Totally off Topic, @mettelus   I have always identified you with that beautiful red convertible,  We just sold this 1972 Cutlass Supreme for my wife's dad. I had it all summer and hated to let go of it. What a gas to drive these old beasts. Everyone waves at you.  But Guitars and Cadillac's and hillbilly music is where it's at. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Bass Guitar

[mettelus]

LOL, @Bass Guitar Off Topic never happens here!  That is definitely a looker, very nice! Tim Allen once made a joke on late night, "Typical muscle car... don't stop, don't steer..." and that is so true for mine... 1971 Mustang with 4-wheel manual drum brakes ('71 was the first year disc brakes were used, and mine ain't got 'em (let alone power-assist)... if it wasn't a stick shift it couldn't be stopped properly). But it absolutely brings a smile to people's faces and people love to talk about "the good ole days," so seeing that reaction in others is always a good feeling and reason to run it around from time to time. 

[Bass Guitar]

@mettelus

Ah Ok I now see it’s a Mustang. I thought it was a GTO. Hard to tell in a 1/4” picture. 

Ya the Cutlass is drum brakes but I’m used to old school. In the background of the picture you can see my 1984 GMC camper van. I love that thing. I use it to haul my PA to Gigs in the summer. Absolutely zero technology. It’s in brand new condition thanks to the former owner who pampered it. 
 

Old cars are like classic guitars. Example my father in law paid $3,500 for the Oldsmobile in 1972, we sold it for $30,000.
 

If I still had my 1963 Gibson Studio  I paid $100 for,  Im sure it would be worth at least $5,000 or more now. I still have my 1965 Guild L series. But it goes with me to my grave. And my Gibson Skylark amp too. 

My son has my 1969 Fender P Bass that he has been offered $2,000 for.  I paid around $100 for it in the 80’s . He has a 1989 BMW he restored that is also now worth gold. 
Cars and guitars are where it’s at! 
 

OK back to the boring stuff. 

 

Edited 14 minutes ago by Bass Guitar