Cakewalk Bundle File Collaboration and Sharing

[Michael Chittam]

My friend did some mixing work on one of my songs. Part of one track does not play. I can see the track information, but no sound. We share bundle files via Google Drive. Any suggestions?

 

Thank you

Edited January 20, 2019 by Michael Chittam

[John Vere]

Generally bundle files are not recommended as they have a long history of becoming corrupt.

First, Midi is never a problem and the data and VST info will be stored within the CWP file itself. 

It's the audio that you need to deal with.  

Compress the whole thing with Win ZIp or Win Rar or ? . Now you can email of share in One Drive or ?  

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Cactus Music

[scook]

 

1 hour ago, Cactus Music said:

Generally bundle files are not recommended

for archiving projects. Collaboration is one of the few areas where bundle files are still considered as a reasonable solution for sharing.

1 hour ago, Cactus Music said:

they have a long history of becoming corrupt.

They have been around for decades and there are reports of corrupted bundles. Project and audio files get corrupted too. It is not clear if the incidence of corrupted bundles is particularly higher than any other file type. What is true about a corrupted bundle is they are, for the most part,  unrecoverable. This can be a disaster if the bundle is the only copy of a project. This is why one should not use bundles for archiving but when collaborating the original project should be on one of the collaborator's machines.

Usually when a bundle or an audio clip is corrupted, CbB will display an error. If no errors were displayed when unpacking the bundle or loading the project there is something else going on. It is hard to say without inspecting the project what the problem is. Could it be as simple as a muted clip or take lane?

As to alternatives to full project bundles:

1) One user maintains the project sending a submix or stems to collaborators. Collaborators send back their contributions to be integrated into the project. Single files are the easiest to manage but multiple files can be handled either by zip or bundle.

2) All collaborators have a copy of the project. Make sure all users use per-project audio folders. This is the Cakewalk default so, should not be a problem. Instead of bundling the project, use "Save As" with "Copy all audio with project" enabled to a new folder. Then zip up the new folder. This is the bundle replacement. All users work on local copies of the same "Save As" zip. Working on "Save As" projects preserves snapshots of the project over time making it easy to recover should a problem arise.

I would avoid emailing projects and use a file sharing service instead. Google Drive is fine.

[Starship Krupa]

3 hours ago, scook said:

As to alternatives to full project bundles:

1) One user maintains the project sending a submix or stems to collaborators. Collaborators send back their contributions to be integrated into the project. Single files are the easiest to manage but multiple files can be handled either by zip or bundle.

If you go this route, you can even do it via the site that gives Cakewalk by BandLab its name, as export/upload of stems and mixes directly to your BandLab account is now built in to Cakewalk.

I haven't tried that workflow out in production yet, only testing. Still doing it like Steve suggests, using Google.

I know that the export and upload part goes pretty smoothly (from one of my systems, at least), but I haven't yet had my long-distance collaborator try to pull stems down from BandLab's site to work with them. Once we get it working, I'm hoping that it will make for a more controlled system than how we do it now. We've had the occasional issue with version control, where we lost track (ha ha) of which revision he had sent me. I take care about file naming, him, not so much.

[Michael Chittam]

It can't be a corrupted file issue because when I send the bundle back to him, all tracks play normally. I think I have it isolated to a Melodyne issue. When I turn off Melodyne on those two tracks - those two track portions play. Something in Melodyne is preventing those two sections of the track from being audible.  Any Melodyne experts out there?

 

Thanks

[Greg Wynn]

I keep hearing about the perils of bundle files.  Nah.....

 

In amost 20 years of using them (*.bun as well as *.cwb files) I’ve had ONE file get corrupted. That’s it. ALL my projects are backed up twice (in two different physical locations on two different hard drives) and I’ve not had any issues since my one corrupted file - which I think was over ten years ago when we were using whatever version of Cakewalk/Sonar we were using then.

[scook]

If the tracks play normally on the other machine have the clips rendered there and get a new bundle with rendered clips. If committing changes is a problem, work on a copy of the track and archive the original.

[Michael McBroom]

I have about 15 or 16 .bun files that I created using Pro Audo 9 back in about 2001. I have tried loading them into SPlat and what I've found is that they unbundle fine, but I was using instruments then in several of the files that I'm no longer configured for. External MIDI instruments. Attached audio files of the mixdown are missing, however. Dunno really why that is, but when I load the files into SPlat, the audio tracks just show flat lines. Three of the files have audio instrumentation, and fortunately these tracks have stayed with the bundles. I found that the best way to unpack them was to use the Media tab that shows up when a new file is selected, and keep clicking on it until I get a drive directory, then just maneuver through them until I get the .bun I'm after, and open it from there.

I still have the external MIDI instruments: Roland JV1010 Synth and Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth. I'm having problems getting them recognized in SPlat (or CbB), though. Not sure why. Their instrument definition files show up and I can access the instrumentation from  each track, I just haven't been able to get them to make any noise yet. But that's a different problem from unbundling the .bun files anyway.

 

[wetdentist]

i have 2 .bun/.cwb files (i forget which) that are corrupt from 2007.  i get told on forums to try opening them in Safe Mode, but when i do that, the project opens up; there's just nothing in it.  i have mentioned several times before that i wish there were a utility program that could open up corrupt .bun/.cwb files minus the stuff that is corrupting them.  like if a track had audiosnap in it, and that was what was corrupting the .bun/.cwb then it would open up the .bun/.cwb file WITHOUT audiosnap.

i generally learn important things the hard way, and this was one of them.  i NEVER use .bun/.cwb files!

[Kalle Rantaaho]

On 1/20/2019 at 6:23 PM, Michael Chittam said:

It can't be a corrupted file issue because when I send the bundle back to him, all tracks play normally. I think I have it isolated to a Melodyne issue. When I turn off Melodyne on those two tracks - those two track portions play. Something in Melodyne is preventing those two sections of the track from being audible.  Any Melodyne experts out there?

 

Thanks

Groove clips can not be saved in a bundle file, wouldn't be surprised if it's the same with Melodyne tracks.

[msmcleod]

10 minutes ago, Kalle Rantaaho said:

Groove clips can not be saved in a bundle file, wouldn't be surprised if it's the same with Melodyne tracks.

IMHO  since the option to save audio files alongside the project appeared, bundle files are for the most part no longer needed.

Before this option appeared, the audio for all projects was stored in one global audio folder, so the option to save as a bundle made sense as it would put everything that was needed (i.e. only the audio files associated with that project) in the one package.

Nowadays, you're as well just zipping up the project directory. That way you get everything, including groove clips, region fx etc.

[Steev]

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 11:23 AM, Michael Chittam said:

It can't be a corrupted file issue because when I send the bundle back to him, all tracks play normally. I think I have it isolated to a Melodyne issue. When I turn off Melodyne on those two tracks - those two track portions play. Something in Melodyne is preventing those two sections of the track from being audible.  Any Melodyne experts out there?

 

Thanks

Right click on the track region where you applied your Melodyne edits and select "Bounce to Clips". This will shut down Melodyne and save your Melodyne Region edits  and embed them into simple audio tracks.

.

[Steev]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 10:59 PM, Michael Chittam said:

My friend did some mixing work on one of my songs. Part of one track does not play. I can see the track information, but no sound. We share bundle files via Google Drive. Any suggestions?

 

Thank you

Yes, don't send project or bundle files though cloud services unless the DAW is stored and operated on the cloud like Bandlab's Mix Editor is. Even if you use the same DAW, you most likely don't have the same exact setup, audio interface, plugins, and computer configurations. 100's of undetermined things can go wrong, and there is a better then not chance that "Murphy's Law" will take over and kick your project's butt to utter destructive total and complete waste of time.

 Especially considering how painfully slow Google Drive is... That's the price you pay for free. But so is Bandlab and it is indeed much faster because you transfer tracks back and forth thru compressed .MP4 files.

These .MP4 retain very good very usable sound quality, and you can easily set SONAR or CbB to automatically  up sample them into your desired bit depth and sample rate of your choosing during "Importing" for a truly normal and rewarding DAW experience that you are used to working in.

 Or not, I don't want to get into a whole different conversation about compressing and up sampling audio files or what sample rate is better then the next, blah, blah,  but I will say don't knock the Bandlab alternative until you try it. It's a new technology and I'd be willing to bet it will shock you as much as it did me.

Either way you feel comfortable with, Bandlab, Google, OneDrive, iCloud, Drop Box, what ever and or all of them...………...

Always send projects as dry "Stem" or "Group" channel mixes and export projects from the "Buss", and you can send any desired FX to other Buss(es) from the related channel's Aux. send for mixing in parallel processing if you desire.

 Always try to keep your track (buss) count down as much as possible when stemming or grouping tracks together so you don't overwhelm anyone else's computer.

 For instance, My computer/workstation has all the extra ProChannel modules and it can run 50+ audio MIDI tracks, dozens of all my favorite Cakewalk, Waves, Eventide FX plugins running, and can do it easily without breaking into  a sweat, staying under 50% across all 8 cores reported by Cakewalk's CPU meter..  Can your computer even easily handle that kind of load? Maybe, but do you have the ALL the Cakewalk PC modules, all the latest plugins that ever came with every version of SONAR 4 Producer up to the latest version of SPLAT including Rapture Pro, Dimension Pro, and Rapture, and every Expansion Pack ever released by Cakewalk and add ons purchased directly from Digital Sound Factory,  and you would still need to have the same 3rd party plugins installed.

 

Always send projects as dry "Stem" or "Group" channel mixes and export projects from the "Buss", and you can send any desired FX to other Buss(es) from the related channel's Aux. send for mixing in parallel processing if you desire.

 Follow these simple rules, and you can collaborate successfully with anyone, anywhere,, using any plugins on DAW running on any platform.

[sjoens]

Or just burn your project folders to CD or thumb drive & Media mail it. Slow but safe. ?

Edited January 23, 2019 by sjoens

[Steev]

Not really, CDRs are extremely fragile one little scratch and PPPBBBTTTZZ, and it's either, "Hey could you send me another one?" Or more then likely "Ah MAN, just forget about it.. Haven't you ever heard of the Internet?"

 Mail delivery is slow here in the US if you don't pay extra to help movie it, especially when customs gets involved, filling out forms, and paying fees here in the US and mailing CDs and thumb drives first class overseas are subject to customs inspections. Those guys can be rather testy on a good day, and those working today are working on a skeleton crew and not even knowing when they are getting paid these days doesn't do anything to improve their moods, and I know and moving sloooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwllllllly and grudgingly, and our air traffic controllers aren't getting paid either.

Then all of a sudden BLAM! The CD gets accidently SMASHED into 1000 PIECES  and sent to 200 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, and none even close to the desired destination, and about 2 weeks after that you get an angry call with shouting "WELL WHERE'S MY CD YOU PROMISED ME?" and you weakly proclaim, "What? But I sent it to you 2 weeks ago". and then the angry voice on the other side retorts; "OH DON'T EVEN TRY TO GIVE ME THAT CD IS IN THE MAIL BULL CRAP!! I HATE YOU, YOU ARE NOTHING MORE THEN HIDIOUS UGLY LYING PIG TRYING TO WASTE ALL MY TIME TO DISTROY MY LIFE AND MY MUSICAL CAREER!" is the last thing you'll hear before realizing... Well, hmmm, wow, that didn't exactly go as I expected.. Maybe I should use Google or Drop Box next time.

 But even moving quickly with no problems it could takes weeks for something that can happen in mere hours sending through the cloud?

Hello? Is Anybody OUT THERE? Wow, do I ever got to pee!

Hey, I don't know what happened, I was just trying to pee in a jar and  I saw NOTHING!

This has GOT to be somebody else's fault!

Edited January 24, 2019 by Steev