In Sonar, within a project - can I change the sample rate audio tracks are recorded at (IE if I start at 96k can I record other audio tracks at 48k)?

[TheSteven]

In Sonar can I change the sample rate audio tracks are recorded at (IE if I start at 96k can I record other audio tracks at 48k)?

I record my guitar tracks with the sample rate set at 96000 because with my Quantum 2 interface it reduces my latency to between 2 - 5ms;
but I do not want record my other audio tracks (vocals, acoustic instruments, etc.) at 96k, would rather use 48k to waste less disk space.
Is this possible in Sonar?

Edited Saturday at 12:16 AM by TheSteven

[Base 57]

If you like convoluted workarounds, then yeah.

Otherwise no.

[Jonathan Sasor]

Sample Rates are set at the project level, so if you've started at 96, there's no a way to convert that exact project to any other sample rate. You can export the audio out at the new sample rate, and then save the track configuration as a template and reload there. 

[Noel Borthwick]

Yeah cant switch mid project in Sonar. However you can in Cakewalk Next since it supports hybrid sample rates in the same project.

[Bass Guitar]

That's funny that staff don't know how to do this. It is actually very simple. I do this in reverse from 44.1 to 48 but it should be the same.

Best to work with a copy of the project

As said midi  data is fine. Leave it alone. 

All audio track will need to be exported as stems using "Tracks no automation of effects" 

Export as 48/32 no dither  

Select that they all export at 1.00:00 Entire project you need this so it's easy to line them up later. 

Open all automation lanes( you don't want to delete this) 

Now delete all audio. There cannot be any audio left in the project. Check in the track manager for hidden tracks. 

Once all audio is gone click in the Transport on the  96/24 to open preferences/ Driver settings. Open the ASIO panel and change the sample rate. 

You will hear a pop or click and the transport should now show 48/24 

Now simply open the browser locate the project export folder  drag the audio back to the original tracks and re save the project. 

Done it dozens of time and now all my old projects are 48. 

 

[David Baay]

4 minutes ago, Bass Guitar said:

It is actually very simple.

This assumes you're willing to consolidate all clips, lanes and comping, and destructively render all clip-level edits:  slip edits, fades, mutes, stretches, looping, clip automation, and clip FX.

[Bass Guitar]

Well the Op made a bit of a bad choice by using a high clock rate just to reduce latency.  They could have simply have used direct monitoring.  So they at least have choices. 

And as I said you use a Copy. If for some reason you run into the situation that requires a return to the un compiled tracks that's easy to do. 

[TheSteven]

2 hours ago, Bass Guitar said:

Well the Op made a bit of a bad choice by using a high clock rate just to reduce latency.  They could have simply have used direct monitoring. 

LOL a bit judgy?  Not every audio interface supports direct monitoring or can host plugins while doing so.

Thank you for the solution you mention in your previous post, but it's not practical for my work style as I'd be flipping back & forth multiple times during the recording and overdub process.  

 

[Bass Guitar]

8 minutes ago, TheSteven said:

LOL a bit judgy?  Not every audio interface supports direct monitoring or can host plugins while doing so.

Sorry I guess I should have looked it up first. I've never run into this before.  I guess you're stuck with using 96. Not really a big problem considering how big and cheap storage is these days. Like the guy yesterday on another forum when asked why he was mixing down all his songs to MP3 said to save space??  His question was "why do my songs not sound as good as  professional releases?" 

 

[HOOK]

On 3/21/2025 at 9:15 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

Yeah cant switch mid project in Sonar. However you can in Cakewalk Next since it supports hybrid sample rates in the same project.

So, @Noel Borthwick, what's the fundamental reason this is an option in Next, but not the new Sonar?  Is this an option you're working on for Sonar?

[Bass Guitar]

4 hours ago, HOOK said:

So, @Noel Borthwick, what's the fundamental reason this is an option in Next, but not the new Sonar?  Is this an option you're working on for Sonar?

Doubt that could be possible. This function comes with a warning in the user manual. Next has to convert the sample rates in real time. This involves your CPU working harder. 

Example, I work at 48/24. So Next is also set to auto detect my Audio interfaces sample rate. Therefore I  record all new audio at 48/24. Once there is audio in the project you cannot change the sample rate to say 44.1 it will pop right back to 48 ( I just tried this to confirm) But you can drag and drop 44.1 wave or MP3's into the 48 project. But the project is still 48. 

I learned this using the stem separation feature.  It brings back the 48/24 file as a  44.1/16 stems. I noticed this and was wondering WTF? So I found it in the user guide. 

Here's the section in the Next Users guide  which is actually very well done: 

 

What should my sample rate and bit depth be for recording?

For music production, 44.1kHz/24-bit or 48kHz/24-bit is a good choice and provides a good balance between sound quality, file size and processing power, and captures the entire audible frequency spectrum accurately. Although a high sample rate along with a high bit depth will deliver the best audio quality, it is not always the best option. The higher the sample rate and bit depth, the more audio processing power and disk space are required. This will reduce the potential track count and number of real-time plugins, and may not make any noticeable sonic difference. 16-bit audio has a low noise floor and a decent amount of dynamic range, and is fine for most music production. 24-bit provides more dynamic range, and lets you record at more conservative levels to avoid exceeding the level of clipping (0 dBFS) while staying above the noise floor.

The added headroom may also be beneficial when editing and mixing. With 16-bit and 24-bit recording, it’s important to set proper levels prior to recording in order to make sure the audio isn't peaking and distorting, while also staying above the noise floor. If the recording level is set too low, raising the track's volume will also increase all of the corresponding noise in the recording. 32-bit recording is generally reserved for ultra-high-dynamic-range recording, and is not meant for distribution.

The main benefit of 32-bit float recording is improved flexibility in making level adjustments after recording is complete. There is so much headroom that it doesn't really matter much where levels are set while recording digitally. Any signal that clipped in the recording can be recovered later by reducing track levels. Signals that exceed 0 dBFS can be reduced to below 0 dBFS, undistorted, and any parts of the recording that had low gain can be raised with less chance of increasing the noise floor. This is mostly useful in an uncontrolled environment where you are not able to set proper recording levels prior to recording, such as live recordings, but is less critical when you are able to set proper recording levels ahead of time.
 

Project sample rate. The project sample rate is set in the Project Info Editor. The default project sample is Auto, which adapts to the audio device sample rate. It is strongly recommended that you use the same sample rate for the project and audio device. Using different sample rates will cause real-time audio resampling, which may consume extra CPU. When you create a new project, if you do not want to use the default audio device sample rate, you must choose a sample rate in the Project Info Editor before you start recording audio. For details, see “Project Information” on page 26. The project sample rate is used when recording and importing audio files.

The project sample rate becomes fixed as soon as any audio clip is present in the project.

When you record or import the first audio clip, the project sample rate will be switched from Auto to whatever the current audio device sample rate was at that time. From then on the project sample rate is fixed.

Removing all audio clips from the project resets the project to Auto which means it will follow the device sample rate again.

The project sample rate can be changed at any time from the Project Info Editor. Cakewalk Next® will attempt to auto switch the device sample rate to the project sample rate when possible. Auto switch occurs both when changing the project sample rate as well as when loading a project

Match the project sample rate and audio device sample rate It is strongly recommended that you use the same sample rate for the project and audio device. Using different sample rates will cause real-time audio resampling, which may consume extra CPU. Real-time sample rate conversion ensures that projects can play back on virtually any audio device at the correct playback speed, even if the audio device doesn’t support the current sample rate. The default project sample is Auto, which adapts to the audio device sample rate. If there is a mismatch, Next will attempt to automatically switch the device sample rate to match the project sample rate when possible.

Auto switch occurs both when changing the project sample rate and when loading a project. The sample rate pickers in the Project Info Editor and Preferences > Audio indicate if there is a mismatch between the audio device sample rate and project sample rate. A notification also appears if there is a mismatch.

 

[HOOK]

51 minutes ago, Bass Guitar said:

Doubt that could be possible.

 

Plugins up sample all day long, and Sonar wouldn't be the first pro-level DAW to allow multiple sampling rates in a project.  So...yeah...it's totally possible.

[Bass Guitar]

Well they will need to get it working correctly in Next before they screw up Sonar. What can happen to me is it will change the project sample rate but the tracks that were at 48 are now totally out of sync. I just tested this. I dropped a finished song into a project that was set to 4800. I used the stem separation which come back at 44.1 and the project changed to 44.1? now the original is out of sync. I looked in the audio folder and the original shows as 48/24 and the stems are 44.1 /16

I have had out of sync issues with a few other projects and now I think I see why after reading that part of the Manual. Its that Auto sample rate that can mess stuff up. 

[pwalpwal]

On 3/24/2025 at 11:46 AM, HOOK said:

So, @Noel Borthwick, what's the fundamental reason this is an option in Next, but not the new Sonar?  Is this an option you're working on for Sonar?

"technical debt" is the official term, and with cbb/sonar's older codebase there's plenty of that - not to say they weren't the right (or only available) decisions at the time

[HOOK]

1 hour ago, pwalpwal said:

"technical debt" is the official term, and with cbb/sonar's older codebase there's plenty of that - not to say they weren't the right (or only available) decisions at the time

Maybe they'll follow Next up with a new flagship DAW called "And Then".

[Noel Borthwick]

On 3/24/2025 at 6:46 AM, HOOK said:

So, @Noel Borthwick, what's the fundamental reason this is an option in Next, but not the new Sonar?  Is this an option you're working on for Sonar?

Fundamental differences in the engine. Next was designed from the onset to support mixed sample rates in the project and do real time SRC. It can even stream compressed audio files. 

[Amberwolf]

9 hours ago, HOOK said:

Maybe they'll follow Next up with a new flagship DAW called "And Then".

No, it'll be ANFSCD. 

 

 

[mettelus]

On 3/24/2025 at 11:08 AM, Bass Guitar said:

Example, I work at 48/24. So Next is also set to auto detect my Audio interfaces sample rate. Therefore I  record all new audio at 48/24. Once there is audio in the project you cannot change the sample rate to say 44.1 it will pop right back to 48 ( I just tried this to confirm) But you can drag and drop 44.1 wave or MP3's into the 48 project. But the project is still 48. 

I have never swapped sample rates mid-project, but this got me wondering. Since you can drag/drop a cwp from the Sonar browser to populate a new project, if you lock that new project with audio at a different sample rate, does that desync things in Sonar? I was under the assumption that the embedded SRC would kick in for that situation (so for the OP the 96K content would all get converted to 48K), but never thought to try it.