Bad Day ( solved )

[Sock Monkey]

What is odd to me is that if this was an issue, then why can I now open the project even though there’s 3 tracks and a couple of buses including the master that have no PC modules. In my screen shot posted above you see the Reverb bus which is totally void of any Modules. 

The glitch seemed to have been that Sonar tripped up on this and crashed. I don’t think that should have happened. Support must be on holidays for the week so I’ll just wait for some sort of response. So far it’s been automated responses. 

[David Baay]

23 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

What is odd to me is that if this was an issue, then why can I now open the project even though there’s 3 tracks and a couple of buses including the master that have no PC modules. In my screen shot posted above you see the Reverb bus which is totally void of any Modules. 

The glitch seemed to have been that Sonar tripped up on this and crashed. I don’t think that should have happened. Support must be on holidays for the week so I’ll just wait for some sort of response. So far it’s been automated responses. 

As I mentioned in the PM, Noel made a change to accomodate the unsupported "hacked" condition of having an empty Prochannel when I reported it, and I've had no further issues with old projects that were set up that way, but I'm avoiding it going forward. I'm not sure what was special about that one track in your project that it was still having issues related to that, but the bottom line is that this condition was not something you could normally get into without hacking a preset file or continuing to use an ancient project template that was set up that way, so you can't really hold CW responsible for the resulting instability 10 years later.

Edited December 27, 2024 by David Baay

[Sock Monkey]

@David Baay  Well I came to the conclusion that by simply saying no during loading in safe mode to the Mystery EQ and saving the project cleared away its references and updated the project to be stable now.

Yes I take 100 % credit for the situation. 

I have since removed the 3 audio tracks and added the gloss eq to the buses just to make sure. 

I will be keeping an eye out for this if I happen upon opening older projects. 
 

Thanks once again for your support. 

Edited December 27, 2024 by Sock Monkey

[AB9]

Great news!  Maybe a good idea to add "solved" to the thread title!

Edited December 27, 2024 by AB9

[sjoens]

BTW, only X1 can add and retain PC-less tracks to a project.  Other versions will add the default modules when adding tracks and the EQ cannot be removed once added unless you do an Undo.

FWIW my PC-less projects have never crashed from the template or preset.  That may be a New Sonar thing or something else entirely.

[Sock Monkey]

I used Home Studio for midi projects On an old gutless laptop that I used for about 2 years. I’d have to install it again to check but it didn’t have Pro Channel. In the inspector strip it only came with Style Dials.  

I refused to upgrade from 8.5 to X1. 
I had X1 LE that I got free from ? Roland?  But I never used it. 
I eventually got back on the train with X3 studio 
I later upgraded to Sonar Professional and then The infamous lifetime version of Platinum. 

I might just fire up Home Studio again just for fun and then see what happens with projects that are transferred over to Sonar. 
I still have the version of the project that crashes saved  I bet Home Studio would open it with out crashing. Update  it didn't crash 

Edited December 29, 2024 by Sock Monkey

[Sock Monkey]

The missing Gloss EQ might be coming from Home Studio.  I installed Home Studio on my testing Computer. You have to be careful because it installs as named Sonar. It is not called Sonar Platinum or Professional or Studio. It is just Sonar. Guess what our brand new version is called! Therefore  it tries to install in your Sonar Folder which as you could guess would make a huge mess of things.  I had to create a new folder, And the Icon it creates will over rule your Sonar Icon. 

Anyhow here's a few screenshots. Instead of Pro Channel it has a Mix Strip. There is an EQ but you can see it is not the Gloss EQ. This might explain the "unknown Channel EQ" that showed during safe mode opening. You can also see it cannot be removed. But of course this version is not installed unless you had installed Home Studio first. Not sure if it was ever a version with older Sonars?  

 

 

Edited December 29, 2024 by Sock Monkey

[David Baay]

9 minutes ago, Sock Monkey said:

The missing Gloss EQ missing might be totally coming from Home Studio.

Interesting. Definitely an oversight that the Bakers forgot that Home Studio installed to Cakewalk\SONAR (I presume it was all-caps then, but Windows doesn't differentiate).  But if the more advanced versions of SONAR could open Home Studio files, I would have thought some sort of EQ "translation" would have been part of that process and would have carried over to Sonar. So I'm wondering if a template with empty Prochannel might still have been involved; like possibly you dragged a Home Studio project into a SONAR project started from a template at some point to update it...? This is normally a good way to update an old project, but not if the template has issues.

 

[Sock Monkey]

According to @sjoens you had to have had X1 to create that situation.  As I said before, I had X1 LE but never used it. And the project is from around 2016 because that will be about the time I was working on it. And that’s also about the era I used Home Studio on that laptop to edit midi files.
At that time I had a job driving a small bus to pick up people with disabilities. There was a lot of boring downtime so the laptop was my time killer. 

The mystery is I have most certainly opened the project in CbB a few times and some editing was done. 

Im just in the process of installing X3 on the test computer as now Im curious about its Pro Channel. The thing is I didn’t even use the PC until about 5 years ago. To me it originally looked like a bunch of useless toys and wiz bang gadgets. I guess I used 3rd party stuff and Sonitus. This is why I can see me being just the person deleting anything in there if it was possible. 

[David Baay]

6 minutes ago, Sock Monkey said:

According to @sjoens you had to have had X1 to create that situation.

There was also a time when you could just create an empty text file, save it with a .pcp extension and import it, but that stopped working at some point.

In any case, it seems to me you must have been using a template with empty Prochannels (maybe acquired from another user) at some point since so many of the tracks in that project had empty Prochannels, not just the one causing problems. Normally if you open an old pre-X1 (or even pre-SONAR) project in CbB or Sonar, all audio tracks and buses will automatically have the default modules.

[sjoens]

Yeah I suppose Home Studio could make a PC-less temp as it only has Style Dials.  I don't have it installed and won't at the risk of messing up my current installs.  Didn't know about the txt file trick either..... so much to learn. 

Not sure if the stripped down EQ could cause issue with newer versions of Sonar's PC but only the devs would know for sure.

Edited December 29, 2024 by sjoens

[Sock Monkey]

Solved ( I hope) 

 This screenshot is from an older Back up storage drive.  As you see the midi and CWP files are the same Created stamp but the Modified dates are different. This confirms the oldest version of this project must have been from Jan 10 2014. That sounds about right. I can tell because there's a drum track marked Session Drummer. So defiantly prior to Splat. I found about 5 saved versions and all had the same  Date Modified time stamp.  

So what I now believe was this  project was started in possibly 2013 and that version was last saved Jan 10 2014.  This was before I bought X3. Therefore it was created in Sonar 8.5. This explains the missing Pro Channel EQ ( I hope) 

It seems I didn't re visit the project until 2020. So that would be CbB. This is where it became corrupted. 

The older versions didn't seem to crash.  So the below screenshot is the foundation of this project from 2014. I don't think this was started as a template.   

There is information here about possible things gone wrong. And it points at the TTS-1 once again. 

This is the original project from Sonar 8.5 opened normally without issues in Sonar 2024. I opened all the pro channels so you can see the blank state. But, it didn't crash. 

I see at this point I had just recorded the Bass track and was probably about to convert it to midi. The 2020 version confirms this did happen. Take note that I was using the TTS-1 here as well. 

 

In the 2020 version I Also noticed the dreaded TTS-1!  was a track, no midi data, and is missing from the Synth rack.  This is a know bug from the past. Under certain conditions you would delete the TTS-1 from the synth rack but the synth track would remain. Often hidden but then found in the track manager. This alone is crash material! So  I have removed the ghost TTS-1 from the 2020 version. 

So basically this is just what can happen over time as we upgrade versions.  Projects can become corrupted. But I'll put my money on the TTS-1 Ghost. 

FYI The latest version, 2024, the one that always  crashes,  also crashed in X3. And X3 has the gloss EQ and it cannot be removed.  I see that my version of X3 Studio was purchased on January 29 2014! A couple of weeks after the original project was last saved.     

 

Edited December 29, 2024 by Sock Monkey

[Noel Borthwick]

If you have a project in that state that still crashes with the latest version of Sonar then send me a link. The one you sent support doesn’t crash here. If its TTS1 crashing there isn’t anything I can do. There are latent bugs in that plugin that can never be fixed since its not in production and we don’t distribute it anymore.

[Sock Monkey]

5 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

If you have a project in that state that still crashes with the latest version of Sonar then send me a link. The one you sent support doesn’t crash here. If its TTS1 crashing there isn’t anything I can do. There are latent bugs in that plugin that can never be fixed since its not in production and we don’t distribute it anymore.

Thanks Noel. I’ll have to double check the version I submitted. It might have been the version I saved after removing the 2 plugs in ghosts that were also confirmed by @David Baay

I t was the holidays so I didn’t want to bug support and David was nice enough to take a look at the project. 

The confusion is that there’s more than one project involved now as well as I ended up with 2 user accounts due to that membership ordeal were I wasn’t allowed the discount because I was already paying monthly. So I used this account to buy my year. 

I have avoided the TTS-2 for years now, but it’s in a lot of older projects like this one.As I said, usually not showing up in the tracks and often not in the synth rack.  A ghost. 

And now we are leaning towards  it could be Addictive Drums! I started another thread asking if other users are having issues with AD2. 
 

But this project is totally stable once those 2 Untitled EQ and Untitled CA2A are removed.  Even if the Pro channel is blank. 
 

 

Edited January 6 by Sock Monkey