Safely migrating to Cakewalk Sonar

[AxlBrutality]

Okay, so I just want to make absolutely clear before I make certain decisions....

As I understand it, Cakewalk Sonar is a SxS install just like CbB was to Legacy, but it includes all the stock/native plugins from CbB (aside form the TTS-1 apparently, which I don't use).

So theoretically, I can simply install Sonar, copy my active project files over to the Sonar projects folder, and safely uninstall CbB?  I don't need to run them in parallel for any reason?

My main concerns are:

-being able to open those CbB projects and have everything as it was, including the settings on what few Sonitus plugins and a couple SI-Strings instances I still use.  Some of these projects are active mixes that I don't want to get messed up or have things overwritten/plugins reset

-do I then need to do a "save as" for those projects, or will they automatically convert or save as a Sonar file?  Will I be left with the old CbB project files that I need to delete afterwards? Just trying to keep things tidy.

-I've saved/installed numerous third party plugins within CbB  plugin folders (CbB is the only DAW currently installed on this computer).  Do I need to make sure I migrate those to Sonar folders before uninstalling CbB?

-I believe I saw mentioned that Sonar will copy over some default settings/preferences (for example, all my projects are set to record in 24/44.8, stuff like that).  No hidden surprises as far as things being reset are concerned?

-nothing changed as far as basic routing and sends are concerned, correct?  In other words, I'm not going to open my projects and suddenly not have things routed the right way?

Apologies for possibly redundant questions (I promise I did read through the press releases and a few threads); I just know that migrating from legacy to CbB was a headache and I had to run them in parallel for quite some time because of plugins and synths no longer included, weird settings that got changed, etc....and even after I was finally able to uninstall legacy for good, I was left with a lot of cleanup and file management.

(I do know that I'm going to probably have an unpleasant surprise with Truepianos, which I owned from Legacy and don't recall purchasing outright...yet I'm using it in CbB without issue in spite of not having Legacy on my computer anymore.  So I have no idea.  I guess I may or may not have to buy a piano VST, lol.)

 

[Pragi]

My experience is that it is possible to open all projects that I have created in CbB in the new Cakewalk Sonar without any changes (...) or delays.

The only point regarding your questions that I cannot answer with yes is whether CbB can be uninstalled safely, i.e., without losing settings, etc.

[Wookiee]

@AxlBrutality Cakewalk Sonar is based on the same core code as Cakewalk by Bandlab (CbB) and S-Plat. Projects from the 1980's through to today can be opened in the Sonar of today.

If you study the directory tree of the Cakewalk family you will see that certain elements are common to all versions of CbB/SONAR/Sonar. 

 

[DeeringAmps]

9 hours ago, AxlBrutality said:

and safely uninstall CbB?

DON’T! Why? IF you never plan to open it again remove it from the start menu and/or task bar; simples, done. 
My office rig has 8.5, SPlat, CbB and Sonar all happily coexisting. Why risk screwing something up?

thank me later…

t

[Xoo]

And if you're worried about disk space, NTFS-compress the folder it's in.

[John Faughey]

11 hours ago, AxlBrutality said:

Okay, so I just want to make absolutely clear before I make certain decisions....

As I understand it, Cakewalk Sonar is a SxS install just like CbB was to Legacy, but it includes all the stock/native plugins from CbB (aside form the TTS-1 apparently, which I don't use).

So theoretically, I can simply install Sonar, copy my active project files over to the Sonar projects folder, and safely uninstall CbB?  I don't need to run them in parallel for any reason?

My main concerns are:

-being able to open those CbB projects and have everything as it was, including the settings on what few Sonitus plugins and a couple SI-Strings instances I still use.  Some of these projects are active mixes that I don't want to get messed up or have things overwritten/plugins reset

-do I then need to do a "save as" for those projects, or will they automatically convert or save as a Sonar file?  Will I be left with the old CbB project files that I need to delete afterwards? Just trying to keep things tidy.

-I've saved/installed numerous third party plugins within CbB  plugin folders (CbB is the only DAW currently installed on this computer).  Do I need to make sure I migrate those to Sonar folders before uninstalling CbB?

-I believe I saw mentioned that Sonar will copy over some default settings/preferences (for example, all my projects are set to record in 24/44.8, stuff like that).  No hidden surprises as far as things being reset are concerned?

-nothing changed as far as basic routing and sends are concerned, correct?  In other words, I'm not going to open my projects and suddenly not have things routed the right way?

Apologies for possibly redundant questions (I promise I did read through the press releases and a few threads); I just know that migrating from legacy to CbB was a headache and I had to run them in parallel for quite some time because of plugins and synths no longer included, weird settings that got changed, etc....and even after I was finally able to uninstall legacy for good, I was left with a lot of cleanup and file management.

(I do know that I'm going to probably have an unpleasant surprise with Truepianos, which I owned from Legacy and don't recall purchasing outright...yet I'm using it in CbB without issue in spite of not having Legacy on my computer anymore.  So I have no idea.  I guess I may or may not have to buy a piano VST, lol.)

 

I have opened several projects in sonar that I started in cakewalk. Had no issues... I am keeping cakewalk on my computer for the foreseeable future. I don’t see any reason to delete it just yet…both programs can coexist. I would rather be safe than sorry…. And it’s worth it for the peace of mind in my opinion.

[Sock Monkey]

Forget it. 

Edited December 12 by Sock Monkey

[Noel Borthwick]

Its 100% backwards compatible. It just won't import old bugs  
However, there is no good reason to uninstall the old cbb. The footprint is quite small and its handy if you ever need to compare how something works as compared to the old version.

[AxlBrutality]

Ahh, Cake forums....never change.

"Can I do X?"

"wHy wOuLd yOu wAnT tO dO X?" - The next 6 people.

"Random admonishment about having project files backed up somewhere else, as if a musician/engineer of 20+ years doesn't operate that way by default" - At least one person.

-questions left unanswered and/or misunderstood in lieu of Ex. B.

[Wookiee]

2 hours ago, AxlBrutality said:

Ahh, Cake forums....never change.

"Can I do X?"

"wHy wOuLd yOu wAnT tO dO X?" - The next 6 people.

"Random admonishment about having project files backed up somewhere else, as if a musician/engineer of 20+ years doesn't operate that way by default" - At least one person.

-questions left unanswered and/or misunderstood in lieu of Ex. B.

Apologies but from reading through the answers here, your questions and concerns have all been clearly addressed.  Even though the chief architect of the program has responded.

But you obviously feel that not to be the case perhaps you would be so kind as to clearly indicate which have not.

[John Faughey]

6 hours ago, Wookiee said:

Apologies but from reading through the answers here, your questions and concerns have all been clearly addressed.  Even though the chief architect of the program has responded.

But you obviously feel that not to be the case perhaps you would be so kind as to clearly indicate which have not.

LOL yeah dude, Noel answered him cLeAr aS dAy       

[Pragi]

12 hours ago, AxlBrutality said:

Ahh, Cake forums....never change.

"Can I do X?"

"wHy wOuLd yOu wAnT tO dO X?" - The next 6 people.

"Random admonishment about having project files backed up somewhere else, as if a musician/engineer of 20+ years doesn't operate that way by default" - At least one person.

-questions left unanswered and/or misunderstood in lieu of Ex. B.

No doubt............😀

Edited December 13 by Pragi

[Wookiee]

3 hours ago, John Faughey said:

LOL yeah dude, Noel answered him cLeAr aS dAy       

You would k8nd of think so!

 

15 minutes ago, Pragi said:

Stupidity appears to be a part of brutality as well.

Steady on old chap apparently that kinda talk is unacceptable, as I was admonished. 

[Pragi]

15 minutes ago, Wookiee said:

Steady on old chap apparently that kinda talk is unacceptable, as I was admonished. 

No problem, I stay corrected.

[sjoens]

I have all the Sonars installed and have had stuff go sideways when uninstalling older ones after installing the latest so concern is valid.

There are common files all Cakewalk installs handle so if one is uninstalled it may remove some of those files.

However, CbB installs with very limited plugin set - so probably not an issue if uninstalled. If still concerned I would simply delete the files, not uninstall them.

I've learned to never install older Sonars after newer ones - even with minimum install to just get plugins can disrupt the newer versions, which then have to be reinstalled to fix issues.

On 12/11/2024 at 6:48 PM, AxlBrutality said:

-have everything as it was, including the settings on what few Sonitus plugins and a couple SI-Strings instances I still use.  Some of these projects are active mixes that I don't want to get messed up or have things overwritten/plugins reset

Regardless if you uninstall CbB or not, Sonitus presets will get overwritten so save any custom presets thru the Export function before installing new app.

On 12/11/2024 at 6:48 PM, AxlBrutality said:

-do I then need to do a "save as" for those projects, or will they automatically convert or save as a Sonar file?

No.  Projects will carry over without need to do anything.  They can be opened in any Cakewalk version but older versions will warn you it was saved in a newer version and may not have some of the features it was last saved with.

On 12/11/2024 at 6:48 PM, AxlBrutality said:

I'm not going to open my projects and suddenly not have things routed the right way?

No.  Unless you changed some hardware then it will give you options.  

On 12/11/2024 at 6:48 PM, AxlBrutality said:

-I've saved/installed numerous third party plugins within CbB  plugin folders (CbB is the only DAW currently installed on this computer).  Do I need to make sure I migrate those to Sonar folders before uninstalling CbB?

No.  Plugins are in a common folder.  However, you can temporarily rename all the common "Shared" folders so uninstall ignores them.

Edited December 15 by sjoens

[Starship Krupa]

On 12/11/2024 at 7:48 PM, AxlBrutality said:

being able to open those CbB projects and have everything as it was, including the settings on what few Sonitus plugins and a couple SI-Strings instances I still use.  Some of these projects are active mixes that I don't want to get messed up or have things overwritten/plugins reset

I have happily run CbB and Sonar side by side with zero issues since Sonar came out.

Even my custom plug-in presets persisted from CbB to Sonar, so they must store them in the same location (registry?).

On 12/11/2024 at 7:48 PM, AxlBrutality said:

-I've saved/installed numerous third party plugins within CbB  plugin folders (CbB is the only DAW currently installed on this computer).  Do I need to make sure I migrate those to Sonar folders before uninstalling CbB?

If you are going to uninstall CbB (which I don't recommend you do), I would get those plug-ins to a different location before doing so. I don't know whether the CbB uninstaller also deletes all of its program subfolders. Some programs do, some don't, CbB probably doesn't, but be safe.

Going forward, it's a better practice to create a dedicated folder for your VST2 plug-ins that is not part of any program's subfolders. So if it's not too much hassle, create a C:\VST2 (or whatever/wherever) folder and install them there.

Otherwise, you could make a copy of your current VST2 plug-ins with a different name, then after the uninstall, if CbB did delete its subfolders, you can rename the folder as it was before. You will of course need to open Preferences in Sonar and tell it where to find those plug-ins.

Also, it's a good idea to only install the VST3 version of a plug-in if the option is available. DAW's (not just CbB and Sonar) can get confused if they scan both. They are supposed to be able to handle it, but for instance if you have both installed, somehow use the VST2 version and later decide that you want to tidy things up and go all VST3, the DAW may not be able to recognize that the VST3 version is the same and it will not load automatically with its settings intact with older projects.

I've been stung by this, so even when plug-ins don't give me the choice to opt out of the VST2 version, I delete the VST2 version manually (along with the Pro Tools version). Quarantining would work too, but I've never had any issues with just deleting them.

On 12/11/2024 at 7:48 PM, AxlBrutality said:

-I believe I saw mentioned that Sonar will copy over some default settings/preferences (for example, all my projects are set to record in 24/44.8, stuff like that).  No hidden surprises as far as things being reset are concerned?

No issues there, many settings like sample rate are per project. If you have custom workspaces, those are a little more difficult to migrate, but I believe it is possible. Good idea to check Preferences after the Sonar install and make sure.

All that said, I suggest just keeping CbB installed, at least for a month or so, if not longer. It takes up little disk space on its own, and since you have multiple concerns, it will give you more peace of mind.

The rest of your points were addressed in the first two replies, and by a Cakewalk developer, so I won't repeat the answers.

[Sock Monkey]

I uninstalled Cakewalk last Summer and today I uninstalled and reinstalled Sonar because I was told by support to do so due to a few crashes. 
But when you do this you are given the option to keep your settings. 
I found zero issues both times. 
I see no reason to keep Cakewalk installed once you have decided to upgrade to Sonar. 
it’s sort of pointless to me. 
 

Edited December 18 by Sock Monkey