I'll never finish this, will I?

[Max Arwood]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that does this. I have a few mix versions topping out around 400. This 15+ years of tweaking. I get a new plugin and want to go redo all my songs lol. Sometimes it helps, but mostly the performance is king. Yes, I hate to say, I am a plugin junkie.

Sorry I can't post more today, I got to head over to DEALS NOW!

Edited November 1 by Max Arwood

[Rain]

22 hours ago, T Boog said:

 

Congrats Rain. I'm more curious about ur song though. Any progress on it?

I'm curious if u changed ur approach at all or are u taking a break from it for a bit?

Thanks for asking.

Actually, I only did a few tests but my voice didn't seem to cooperate, so I quickly called it a night. But I did listen to a few takes from the previous week and I think I'm almost there - to a point where I can live with my voice without being particularly fond of it. Part of it is just a matter of singing more. And warming up. Which I've been trying to do a little more regularly. But there's something that's still locked in. 

[Rain]

13 hours ago, Max Arwood said:

I get a new plugin and want to go redo all my songs lol.

This. 

I have a few songs that I have allowed myself to go back to and completely rebuild from my old Sonar archives. To be honest, in most cases, I've lived with them for so long that no matter what I try and how much "better" they should be, they rarely sound right. For all their flaws, I've become used to those so much that something's missing in the better mix. They just feel a little flat and unexciting.

But there are 2 or 3 which actually ended up significantly better - although in each case, the process stretched over years and multiple attempts. One of those is a cover for Billy Idol's Flesh for Fantasy that I really dig. The original dates from 2007, but I re-made it in 2013 and again in 2017 I think. The problem is that it's still instrumental, and I would love to record vocals for it, but it's not in a key that works for me. And there's no way I'm spending another 15 years to rebuilt it in the right key. A friend who's actually a real singer offered to help me finish it, and I might ask her to. 

Sometimes I do miss the days when I didn't know better than to have every synth rendered to stereo with reverb and delay and things masking each other, and I would just shove everything through the stereo bus and call that my mix. And if the kick drum got buried, I would just add yet another track of a different kick...

Now I have better gear, a better room to work in, and I pretend that I know just a little better, but I really don't. lol 

[craigb]

Plus you need more cats. 😁

[T Boog]

5 hours ago, Rain said:

. For all their flaws, I've become used to those so much that something's missing in the better mix.

Im a big believer in that. Like on Metallica s And Justice For All the bass guitar is pretty much non-existent. But that crappy mix has a charm of it's own.

Also, the mix on Joe Satriani's song Surfing with the Alien sounds pretty amateur with a cheap drum machine. But again, it has a certain charm. 

It really comes down to how good the song is. The Beatles Yesterday would sound great on a old cassette bootleg. I think time is better spent moving forward than repolishing the old stuff.

[Rain]

15 hours ago, craigb said:

Plus you need more cats. 😁

I'm struggling with that addiction. 😁

[Rain]

On 11/2/2024 at 6:00 AM, T Boog said:

Im a big believer in that. Like on Metallica s And Justice For All the bass guitar is pretty much non-existent. But that crappy mix has a charm of it's own.

Also, the mix on Joe Satriani's song Surfing with the Alien sounds pretty amateur with a cheap drum machine. But again, it has a certain charm. 

It really comes down to how good the song is. The Beatles Yesterday would sound great on a old cassette bootleg. I think time is better spent moving forward than repolishing the old stuff.

Agreed wholeheartedly. 

As a musician of course, I do have a certain curiosity. Whether it's Justice, or albums like Black Sabbath's Born Again or KISS' Hotter Than Hell - I would love to be able to hear the raw tracks. Every time I hear those two, I try to deconstruct them and understand what went wrong, how did they get that sound. It's become sort of a mild obsession. HTH almost sounds like they recorded part of the mix from the speakers in the studio...

In other news though, after letting it cool off for a bit and listening to the previous attempts, and keeping this discussion in mind, I managed to put things in perspective. I went for a few more attempts this morning but remained very reasonable about it.

I believe it has more to do with the energy and also the pronunciation (and that part is made all the more complex by the fact that the original was sung by a Swede and that I am dealing with my own French Canadian accent).

And then sometimes some words and sentences are difficult to push through or bite into  - the soft parts are in all the wrong places, you just can't lean into them properly. The chorus of that song is particularly difficult (to me) because of that. A lot of it is kind of slurred.

The whole thing is a learning experience, though. That's not something I usually do. Typically when I do a cover, it takes off in an entirely different direction. This one I am trying to stick to the original arrangement as much as I can - and that part has taught me a lot. Which was the point.

Ultimately, that's why I am making music. To learn things. At my age, and considering that most of it will go unheard except by my cat, there's really no other motivation. It's what I do, that's all.

Edited November 5 by Rain

[mettelus]

6 hours ago, Rain said:

I believe it has more to do with the energy and also the pronunciation (and that part is made all the more complex by the fact that the original was sung by a Swede and that I am dealing with my own French Canadian accent).

Everyone's voice is unique, so it is a true feat to emulate another's voice, even without accent differences. It is sometimes more prudent to be intimately familiar with your own voice (pros and cons) to leverage that instead. Don't lose sight of the fact that even a cover work has a vast amount of "you" in it.

[craigb]

I'm very familiar with my own voice.  Which is why I don't sing! 😂

(My voice-overs are good though! 🙂)

[T Boog]

9 hours ago, Rain said:

my own French Canadian accent

Cheers Rain. We might just be related. I'm French Cajun. My mom is a Foret. I know the Forets all came from Canada. Anyway, I dont have a thick Cajun accent but I do have a bit of it. A word like "That" can sound more like "Dat" if Im not careful.

Btw, I can understand not wanting everyone to hear ur music but if u played it for one or two friends or musicians you'd prob get some useful, objective feedback. It's good to put urself out there a bit.

That reminds me of back in the day, I was considered one of the local guitar heros in my area and I used to go to all the jam nights. I rem this one older guy who was just learning to play and although he wasnt very good, we all admired him for having the courage to get on stage. He would constantly ask us for advice and we'd all encourage him and give him feedback.

I ended up getting busy with my own band so I didn't hit the jam nights for a while. Anyway, about a year later I went to a jam night where he played and I COULD NOT BELIEVE how good he got. It was like a Robert Johnson thing. You'd swear he sold his soul. 

So yeah, there's def a benefit to putting urself out there and letting a few outside ears hear ur stuff. That's up to u of course but Id encourage u to push ur comfort zone a bit. Rock On!

[paulo]

11 hours ago, Rain said:

I believe it has more to do with the energy and also the pronunciation (and that part is made all the more complex by the fact that the original was sung by a Swede and that I am dealing with my own French Canadian accent).

In my mind this song is now an Abba cover version in the style of Gary Numan/NIN  but sung in one of those accents that for some reason makes ladies'  underwear fall off.  I can't wait to hear how that sounds. 

11 hours ago, Rain said:

it will go unheard except by my cat, there's really no other motivation. It's what I do, that's all.

I know what you mean, I'm pretty much the same and to me that's all that really matters and the best reason there is for doing it, but seeing as you've put us all through the agonies of recording it now,  I think we should get to hear it.

[Rain]

Thanks guys. 

I've decided I'd try to make the best of what's recorded. I must have 6 or 7 takes of each part I've not deleted, and I will try to comp something up using those. Even though I could clearly use it, I refuse to use Autotune/Melodyne. But I should be able to salvage a somewhat ok performance.

In the meantime, I was curious to try and see how far I could get just using one of the 'live" takes and pushing a couple of others underneath to reinforce it, adding a bit of compression and such. I've never really mixed vocals (not that I've properly mixed anything, mind you), so that too is a challenge. Apologies for the sour bits.

The song's a cover of Covenant's Like Tears in Rain. Since this was about learning, I tried to remain faithful to their arrangement. I might put together a different version with my own twist on it because I have a few ideas for it.

Again, it's just a rough balance, I'll work on the actual mix once I'm done with the vocals. There's a few things I'd like to overdubs, bits of synth and whatnot. 

 

 

Here's the original.

 

 

Edited November 6 by Rain

[mettelus]

Very nice. You are definitely too critical of yourself IMO. After hearing this, I think a lot of your concerns fall into the bucket of "who will recognize or care about that?" You see every detail of what you do and focus on rectifying bad; listeners observe from a higher level typically and focus on the overall piece. Very different perspectives. Another thing to consider is how many songs do we recognize as "originals" when they are actually covers?

Side anecdote here, since it reminded me of an old Thai teaching. A monk decides to make a brick wall (first time ever), and as he goes, he notices two bricks that are obviously not aligned properly, but begrudgingly completes the job. When finished, another monk praises him for the work he did, and he replies, "But don't you notice those two bricks??" The other smiles and says, "Of course, but they do not affect your achievement in any way. Only you think they do."

[Old Joad]

I know it's not what you're supposed to do, but Eskil Simonsson isn't trying to project his vocal on this track.

Your vocal isn't bad👍🏼 and not that I'm some great singer🤔 

but when I'm singing with a band "Sugar Crash" I try to project my voice across the room,

but when I sang on "Ache" the band played quit and i sang from my throat. 

Edited November 6 by Old Joad

[T Boog]

8 hours ago, Rain said:

I will try to comp something up using those

Bravo Rain. Props for posting ur track. Im also glad to see ur opened minded about comping takes. And I agree with these guys. You sound better than u think. U actually have a cool voice (no matter what ur cat says 😜)

 

[craigb]

On 11/6/2024 at 12:02 PM, T Boog said:

Bravo Rain. Props for posting ur track. Im also glad to see ur opened minded about comping takes. And I agree with these guys. You sound better than u think. U actually have a cool voice (no matter what ur cat says 😜)

 

 

Side fun...  Considering what you go by here, I'm trying to figure out if "Tears" in the song title rhymes with "fears" or "hairs!" 🤣

Edited November 10 by craigb

[paulo]

On 11/6/2024 at 11:12 AM, Rain said:

it's just a rough balance, I'll work on the actual mix once I'm done with the vocals. There's a few things I'd like to overdubs, bits of synth and whatnot. 

It's a cool track and it sounds good so far. I'm looking forward to hearing the final version now. You've nothing to worry about regarding your vocals.

[craigb]

 

(Hopefully not! 😁)

 

[Rain]

Thank you guys. I don't often get the opportunity to receive feedback, so I really appreciate. (Big fan of Assemblage 23, too - it's been a while since I checked out the newer releases though, but Failure still gets played relatively often).

I've managed NOT to re-record any vocals this weekend (so far). I think I will  simply try to comp something and move on. If nothing else, I've learned a lot in the process. 

I've also started working on my own arrangement for the song - I challenged myself to use nothing but Logic's own synths and plugins for this one. The reasoning being that I suck at mixing but when I come up with something that's my own, I do a little better - as I did for that Billy Idol cover. And that one was done almost entirely with Logic synths (but built around a few key components imported from an old Sonar mix which made abundant use of Zeta and Dimension).

In parallel, I've rebuilt the other mix in Luna, which I'm demoing. The reasoning for that is that I won't be as tempted to re-do this and re-record that, and to instead try to draw the line and approach it as an entirely different step and relying mostly on the built-in processing, thereby limiting my options. 

And, man, that virtual console looks and sounds incredible. I wish I had the talent to really take advantage of it. 

[T Boog]

39 minutes ago, Rain said:

thereby limiting my options. 

Great idea Rain. Way to keep an open mind and try diff approaches. As usual, you're better than u think. That said, rem to give urself some props for every little step forward. That's what a good producer does. Positive reinforcement is a POWERFUL thing. It inspires us and builds confidence in us.

  Just keep setting small goals and allow urself more time to grow. With time, u'll get better at all these things incl mixing(which is an area I'm still growing at myself). Rock On My Friend 😉