Sonar 2024.08 Feedback

[Wookiee]

@aleo check in the CPC there should be an option download and install the documents there, sorry not on my PC so I remember what tab it is under.

[Steev]

I've been field testing Sonar 2024.08 now for a couple of weeks now and I'm really, really LIKING IT! 👏👏👍👍

And I do believe I would LOVEto BUY an "upgrade" license and own it like I do SONAR Platinum, simply for the reasons of not having to log into my Bandlab account to reactivate it every few weeks or month. 😒 Especially since my Windows 10 Pro computer will lose Microsoft support around December 2025 doesn't mean I'm going to stop using it, it means I'm going to stop tethering it to the Internet. And yea, I know all about offline activation, and that's just more of a PITA.  I also know how to build or obtain KeyGens, but that kinda does go against the grains of my sense of 'copyright' ethics, because it gets too close to the borders of cheating & STEALING and I'm not a thief, nor do I like people cheating or stealing from me.

And my FAVORITE thing about the new Sonar is the active spectrum analyzer being added to the ProChannel EQ. That's something I ALWAYS wished for, because it makes it really easy to visualize the EQ curves between channels, especially when ear fatigue starts to occur. When 2 channels in the same voicing spectrum run at the same EQ curves things tend to get muddy in the mix and just a slight barely audible adjustment shift can make things so much cleaner and clearer in the stereo mix buss.

 Coming late to the table I missed the issues of crashing on startup. However, I did have a few crashes which upon a bit of investigation and research were caused mostly by 3rd party VST Audio FX plugins but seemed to be resolved with "Load Ballancing".

I haven't really noticed any increase performance other than the Reason Rack Plugin loading up and adding 16 MIDI & 16 stereo audio tracks into a Cakewalk project BLAZINGLY FAST! 🤯 For those who don't know the Reason Rack Plugin will run ANYTHING & EVERYTHING in the Propellerhead Reason DAW as a VST 3 plugin in any DAW that 'hosts' VST plugins and synths. Both SONAR Platinum & CbB would take a few seconds to add 16 Reason Rack tracks. Typically I only want to use ONE Reason synth AT A TIME, so make sure the "Only add the 1st MIDI & audio output is selected." in the Cakewalk dialog box while adding a new synth, and CbB remembered I always selected that for Reason Rack plugin. 1st time I open it in the new Sonar, Sonar didn't know that.

But I'm running a very powerful finely tuned custom built computer/workstation that leans towards the side of being overpowered for a music machine DAW, and slightly over middle of the road grade of the Professional NLE "Video Editing". Plus I ALWAYS freeze tracks when done working with them. It's an old school practice, not as much for saving power to keep latency low, as it is for 'safety' reasons to avoid making the mistake of making adjustments and tweaks to track 58 when I meant to adjust or tweak track 59. i.e. SCREW UP the WRONG TRACK.  And that can happen to the best of us.

And things can get REALLY BAD when Somone else who doesn't know what they're doing and or never used a Behringer X Touch DAW controller sits down in the mixing seat and starts pushing buttons, twisting knobs, or whatever whilst mesmerized by watching the motorized faders dance around whilst I'm in the bathroom draining my bladder. 😵 I mean come ON, even the best of us do that from time to time, after a couple of beer or watnot. 🥴 Maybe we'll accidently hit the "Undo" button by accident instead of the "Save" button, they are right next to each other after all. Freezing tracks safeguards us from these problem/conditions as well as a host of others. And on my very high-powered computer it only SECONDS to freeze a track and 1/2 a second to unfreeze it, so it's really stupid not to as an extra layer(s) of precaution.

 I also had issues with adding DXi synths into the Synth Rack chain under VSTi synths, particularly when adding the Cakewalk TTS-1 with VSTi's already in the synth rack running would cause an immediate crash.

However, in a new project, if I start off using the TTS-1 as the 1st synth I use it all works out great.

I also understand the TTS-1 was 1st introduced, I believe with SONAR 4 Producer which of course is ancient as far as synth/instruments are concerned, so really, I find it quite a bit amazing that it still works at all. It never really got the credit or attention it deserved. Being it was bundled for free and being a DXi it's GUI is a rather simple, plain, and kinda UGLY looking Windows Dialog Box. 

But you can't judge a book by it's cover because LOOKS ARE DECIEVING. especially in the case of the TTS-1, Look under the hood, and you will find about a DOZEN versions of Roland SoundCanvas synth engine releases, which could be configured for 2(stereo), 4, or 8 channel outs and that's MANY more WIRELESS audio outputs than my beloved physical Roland Fantom X 61 hardware even synth had. I wouldn't be surprised to find that I'm the last person on the planet to still even use or even know it exists.

And I do remember reading about TTS-1 not being bundled with the new Cakewalk Sonar by request by Roland. I don't blame them, they don't own or not affiliated with Cakewalk anymore and would much prefer "selling you" their new synth's with their new updated "SuperNatural" synth engine.🤣

 But none of these are problematic for me. I can just add the TTS-1 to the Cakewalk Project first in line, I don't have to use it 1st, or at all just in case I might want to later on.

Well I hope this info was useful to many 'users'. However, I don't think a lot of it would be useful to Cakewalk Staff and bakers who have little to no control over how 3rd party plugins react, But I gotta give the bakers KUDOS & HUGH PROPS UP! 👍👍

I can't remember EVER experiencing a NEW Upgrade/update version release that ran as smoothly as Cakewalk Sonar does for me. Especially with all the radical changes to the sound engine and handling of FX plugins!

 

 

 

 

[DeeringAmps]

On 9/4/2024 at 11:21 AM, Steev said:

I do believe I would LOVEto BUY

So “buy” the one year “lease”. They’ve run a number of 25% off deals. One note: your monthly membership must be “expired” to purchase a year long membership.

We used to purchase yearly in the “old” days; remember?

t

Its on sale right now thru the 9th!

 

Edited September 5 by DeeringAmps

[Steev]

On 9/4/2024 at 3:36 PM, DeeringAmps said:

So “buy” the one year “lease”. They’ve run a number of 25% off deals. One note: your monthly membership must be “expired” to purchase a year long membership. Sonar will run until the “lease” is up. (at least I have not had to reactivate since going to the one year sub)

Then, a year from now, you’ll do it once again (or hopefully, there will be a purchase option by then)

We used to purchase yearly in the “old” days; remember?

t

Its on sale right now thru the 9th!

 

I'm an active member of Bandlab.com and have MUCH FUN jamming and collaborating with others from all around the world.

And so I already did buy the yearly annual "Bandlab Membership" lease deal around last Thanksgiving.

Believe me, you get a LOT more value & publishing services than just Cakewalk Sonar DAW. I never thought I'd live to see the days when technology could even make this possible. But I didn't really by Membership for twice the tracks, more plugins, more mastering presets, and free publishing services to other Spotify, ReverbNation to name a few bonuses, all of these are very cool and saves a LOT of extra work & time. I bought Bandlab Membership to give something back for keeping my favorite DAW alive, all the support they've been giving us FOR FREE. I don't have an overblown sense of self entitlement or self-worth as so many others do, I was feeling a bit guilty about being treated this NICE taking all they give without bring anything to the table.

But I work out my music projects on my computer with a DAW and upload tracks, stems, and buss groups to Bandlab Studio for mix editing, as it's NOT really a DAW. It's an "editor" it doesn't run my 'can't live without 3rd party plugins and doesn't even have a buss section, and the fact that you can only record one track at a time is a deal breaker for me. And as good as Bandlab's mastering is concerned, it's certainly no Ozone. But Bandlab Studio does an AMAZING job, and does things DAWs can't do. It's as CROSS PLATFORM as you can get, It can run on and you can collaborate with anyone has an idea, an Android or iPhone, a Windows or Mac computer and record ANYWHERE there is INTERNET SERVICE!

And that being said, I gladly joined and paid for Bandlab BEFORE Sonar was even released, so being able to download it for no extra money was "Just another one of the MANY PERKS", that I didn't even recognize as lease/ subscription deal. 

And being it is about the same as I had always paid for Updates in the old days, so that's not in the least a real problem for me.

BUT.. even with CbB, the Sonar license DOES TIME OUT and reverts to "Demo Mode" every few weeks to a month and usually just automatically reports to the mothership & renews itself, so if you are not paying attention and have Toast Notifications turned off you won't even notice or know it's happening. USUALLY, but NOT ALWAYS automatically registers. That won't be a problem for me until December 2025 when Microsoft drops support for Win 10 Pro. And then it will become a 'condition' of dealing with offline activation.

But I've lived thru worse.. ✌

 

[Colin Nicholls]

On 9/4/2024 at 12:36 PM, DeeringAmps said:

We used to purchase yearly in the “old” days; remember?

No, I don't remember, and I'm pretty sure I was there. Yes we paid for (roughly) yearly upgrades and never complained, but if we chose not to, we still had a working DAW to use.

That said, I have no problem with the subscription model that Bandlab has settled on. It's a business, after all, not a charity. And the product is worth it.

[MIDInco]

It’s wonderful that the project file has been streamlined and the latency has drastically decreased!
However, the issue of crashing more frequently compared to other DAWs still hasn’t been resolved.

Additionally, there are many compatibility issues with third-party VST plugins that work properly on other DAWs but not on Sonar, making me feel that this DAW still has many unresolved problems

In my environment, the following plugin manufacturers’ products do not function properly in Sonar, even though they work fine in other DAWs (The products in parentheses are their main offerings):

Auburn Sounds (Graillon)
Xfer (Serum, OTT)
Native Instruments (Kontakt with third-party Kontakt library)
iZotope (Ozone)
kilohearts
Many others
Of course, I fully understand that sometimes the issue lies with the third-party plugins themselves and that it’s unreasonable to expect Sonar to support all VSTs.

On a separate note, there has been a bug for several years now where noise occurs during export, even in small and low-load project files. This issue cannot be avoided by freezing or bypassing FX, and I have no idea how to resolve it.

I have had detailed exchanges with support, providing dump files and screen recordings for both the VST-related bugs and the noise issue, but none of these issues have been resolved.

[DeeringAmps]

1 hour ago, Steev said:

the Sonar license DOES TIME OUT and reverts to "Demo Mode" every few weeks to a month

Good to know and thanks for the info. 
Like you, I do believe we should “pay it forward”. BL has been very good to us. 
Unlike you, I have not explored all the perks that membership has to offer. And shame on me for that. 
I will edit my post so as not to misinform. 

thanks again,

t

[AB99]

I have no issues with Kontakt.

[Glenn Stanton]

ditto. very seldom do i ever crash lately with Sonar. the Karzog folks had a few weeks of issues but updated and ok. something was going on with the Pro-Q for a few weeks and the update seemed to correct it. otherwise Kontakt, Izotope, Graillion, and most other plugins are running fine. even the Waves Abbey Road Chambers (a seriously major pig) works nicely.

[MIDInco]

18 minutes ago, AB99 said:

Kontaktに問題はありません。

I would like to introduce a video. The following URL is a video of a MIDI being played using a certain Kontakt library:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcqyhGpvx7Y

At first, it’s played in Bitwig Studio, where playback and stopping are repeated without any issues. However, when played in Cakewalk Sonar, you can see that the CPU usage reaches 100% when stopping. This phenomenon only occurs in Sonar and did not happen in Cubase or Studio One.

[Steev]

14 hours ago, MIDInco said:

It’s wonderful that the project file has been streamlined and the latency has drastically decreased!
However, the issue of crashing more frequently compared to other DAWs still hasn’t been resolved.

Additionally, there are many compatibility issues with third-party VST plugins that work properly on other DAWs but not on Sonar, making me feel that this DAW still has many unresolved problems

In my environment, the following plugin manufacturers’ products do not function properly in Sonar, even though they work fine in other DAWs (The products in parentheses are their main offerings):

Auburn Sounds (Graillon)
Xfer (Serum, OTT)
Native Instruments (Kontakt with third-party Kontakt library)
iZotope (Ozone)
kilohearts
Many others
Of course, I fully understand that sometimes the issue lies with the third-party plugins themselves and that it’s unreasonable to expect Sonar to support all VSTs.

On a separate note, there has been a bug for several years now where noise occurs during export, even in small and low-load project files. This issue cannot be avoided by freezing or bypassing FX, and I have no idea how to resolve it.

I have had detailed exchanges with support, providing dump files and screen recordings for both the VST-related bugs and the noise issue, but none of these issues have been resolved.

There has always been problems and issues with new version releases, particularly with 3rd party software catching up. ProTools is the WORSE in my experience for these issues to be resolved in a timely fashion. Not so much with Cakewalk, I found it to settle in and smooth out quite quicky, as the bakers and problem solvers not only pay attention, but they also actively participate in the users forums.

And as far as 3rd party vendors are concerned, the only ones I've used and had experience with in the about list are Native Instruments who I have ALWAY had issues and problems with, and iZotope which I have had little to no problems with, until NI bought them out and dropped support for releasing Ozone 10 as a standalone mastering suite and only released it as a VST plugin and moved it OUT of iZotope's existing "Windows Program Files" folder which contains ALL my existing iZotope apps, and stuck into yet another newly created file location ALL BY ITSELF.😒 And Sound Forge Pro couldn't find it,. I use SF-P as my preferred Mastering software for DECADES and I use it in a different room 'environment' specifically tuned for "mastering" on an entirely different computer then I do using SONAR to record in acoustically tuned to record in. As an old school audio/MIDI engineer who started recording in the late 60's to TAPE, I have never even recommended to anyone to master their own music, if at all possible, get someone else experienced in mastering to do it. But that could be expensive, & apps like Sound Forge and Ozone changed all that, as each one by themselves made it quite doable and acceptable. But together running Ozone in Sound Forge Pro as a VST made it VERY EASY and FAST.

Contacting and communicating with NI Support is somewhere between SLOW & TEDIOUS at best, to NON EXISTANT! I believe they expect you to give up trying, but I don't give up, and so in about a week or 2 I managed to squeeze the secrets of Windows Registry edits and new location in "Program Files" out of them with a stern warning that if I do registry editing, they can't be held responsible & could void my privileges and right to further support. blah, blah, blah,,, to which I replied; "FINE BY ME, your support SUCKS, so get somebody who knows what they are doing to send me the CORRECT steps, procedures, and info I need to do it myself or GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK, as I am more than happy with Ozone 9 as I am just as happy to NEVER give you another dime EVER AGAIN. And as it turned out, I'm not in the least happy or impressed with Ozone 10's new AI assisted auto mastering technology. And the differences, if in fact there are any, are no improvements over previous versions of Ozone's machine learning based auto mastering "Mastering Assistant". Which really is quite good, most certainly close enough for Rock-n-Roll, but I'm thinking not really better than Bandlab's FREE Mastering Algorithms. 🤣

But anywoo, I'm an 'ol schooler and I would NEVER EVER recommend running a mastering suite in ANY DAW strapped into Buss FX bin, for many and too numerous reasons to get into here, and I'm not going to get into it with any "Move Over Old Dawg, the New Young Dawg Is MOV'IN IN." Psychobabble here. I get more then my fill of trying to ignore that on Bandlab.com. 🥴

The #1 reason being is NEVER TRY TO MASTER MUSIC IN THE ROOM IT WAS RECORDED IN.

My point is, NI you done SCREWED the NEWBIES POOCH AGAIN! 

[Glenn Stanton]

16 hours ago, MIDInco said:

I would like to introduce a video. The following URL is a video of a MIDI being played using a certain Kontakt library:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcqyhGpvx7Y

At first, it’s played in Bitwig Studio, where playback and stopping are repeated without any issues. However, when played in Cakewalk Sonar, you can see that the CPU usage reaches 100% when stopping. This phenomenon only occurs in Sonar and did not happen in Cubase or Studio One.

yeah weird. and all the Kontakt libraries do the same thing? the CW meters don't show an issue but your Kontakt meters are hitting 100%.

in a similar test on my system using the session guitar library, the Kontakt meters -  i'm never over 10-11% and then stopping it drops downs very quickly to 8% then 3% and 0% (~100ms) - possibly due to library unloading etc type of optimizations to preserve resources?

[Jeremy Oakes]

21 hours ago, MIDInco said:

I would like to introduce a video. The following URL is a video of a MIDI being played using a certain Kontakt library:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcqyhGpvx7Y

At first, it’s played in Bitwig Studio, where playback and stopping are repeated without any issues. However, when played in Cakewalk Sonar, you can see that the CPU usage reaches 100% when stopping. This phenomenon only occurs in Sonar and did not happen in Cubase or Studio One.

The person who recorded that must have other things going on at the same time. I have very very few issues with Kontakt libraries un Sonar.

J

[Steev]

On 9/5/2024 at 6:43 PM, MIDInco said:

I would like to introduce a video. The following URL is a video of a MIDI being played using a certain Kontakt library:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcqyhGpvx7Y

At first, it’s played in Bitwig Studio, where playback and stopping are repeated without any issues. However, when played in Cakewalk Sonar, you can see that the CPU usage reaches 100% when stopping. This phenomenon only occurs in Sonar and did not happen in Cubase or Studio One.

Sounds like it could quite possibly be a system bottleneck in serial buss/system memory traffic jam to me? It's Windows set up and configured for high performance?

If you are switching back & from DAW to DAW, would suggest rebooting your computer before trying Kontakt in Sonar, and see if that resolves the problem. Just because you shut down one DAW doesn't mean it doesn't leave stuff like samples and God know what else behind in your system RAM storage drive Cashe.

ESPECIALLY if you are using an inexpensive- mid grade computer, then you most undoubtedly don't have premium grade matched sticks RAM. They would or could be running at 'close enough for rock-n-roll same speed and be recognized by the motherboard, but not necessarily same CAS configuration. And that could also not only cause a bottleneck, it could be causing a duel channel memory system to default to single channel mode making the bottleneck even worse, and you wouldn't even know it without bench testing it.

Doesn't really matter how big, bad, & fast your 8 core or better CPU is if it's stuck in crosstown a traffic jam bottle next. 

 So unless you paid at least $3k+ (US) for a high-performance computer/workstation specifically designed and configured for DCC, and NOT Gaming! Yea, I know quite a few of us like to play around with DAWs more than actually making music, but DAW's aren't actually games. They are more like TOOLBOXES then toys. I would seriously recommend looking into system memory RAM insuring you have high-performance "Matched Sticks" of Premium RAM installed, made by the same manufacturer and specifically approved and certified by the CPU and motherboards manufacturer, and at least 16 gigs of it. 32 gigs better, 64 gigs better yet, IF your motherboards support it.

Aside and as well as upgrading from hard drives to SSD storage drives, system RAM upgrades are the most inexpensive, yet SERIOUS performance/stabilizing booster upgrades you can do short of upgrading your entire system.

And as far as Cakewalk Sonar is concerned, I just ran my 1st DAW project without freezing tracks to see how far I could go without glitching or an audio engine dropout with my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen 2.

I was SHOCKED to reach 50 audio/MIDI TRACKS running 9 combinations of Cakewalk TTS-1, Dimension Pro, Session Drummer 3, XLN Audio Addictive Drums 2, 2 instances of Reason Rack "Fricktion" synths in the rack.

 2 acoustic and 1 electric Guitars, Bass Guitar, and then I pressed the control key to duplicate the tracks & DRAGGED the AUDIO tracks into an empty MIDI tracks and as if by magic, Sonar opened Melodyne Editor and CONVERTED AUDIO tracks to MIDI tracks to be DOUBLED 2x to played as ReAmped double track'in in "StrumSessions", or Dimension Pro, or and number Reason Rack's 100's - 1000's of different guitar rigs & or ANY kind synths imaginable. 

The is NOTHING Native Instruments has or can do that PropellorHead can't, and Reason CAN DO many, MANY UNIMAGINAL things Kontakt never even thought of and DO IT EASY on the CPU & do it all...TROUBLE FREE, RUN in ANY & EVERY DAW! 👍👍😉💯

Vocals all on separate channels + aux tracks, all with Full array in  ProChannel, N-Type assorted/selected per chan inserts. Waves, Universal Audio, Softtubes, Focusrite plugins in FX bins.

6 stem/grouped instruments buss mix plus UA Capital Chambers Reverb aux send, all treated with ProChannel PC4K comp, EQ, Concrete Limiter, Tube, N-Type to stereo Master Buss with Waves Magma Tubes and Ozone 10 in the bin.

Sonar only consumed an average range of 30- 35% CPU with NO CORE ever peaking in the red AMD FX-8370 running steady @ 4.1 G/hz with occasional, Turbo Boost up to 4.9 G/hz. consuming an average 28% of 32 gigs. system memory = 10.4 GB.

And WHAT did I record you mayhap be thunk'in? Well, just for snitz-n-giggles, I started to play a 'lil tune I couldn't have thought that I would NEVER EVER want to play again. And actually, HAVEN'T for over 30+ YEARS. But upon request from a very cranky old man who is very sick with cancer and actually used the "Please" word on me for the 1st time in at least 20 YEARS....

 I thru up my hands, shook my head "Yea, AhHuh, Ok, so I gave it my best shot and SPANKED Cakewalk with "Stairway to Heaven" of course.

 And Cakewalk just seemed to stare back with a 'lil jiggle wiggly dance of it's CPU meters, it seemed to be say'in in soft taunting tones..... "Is that all you got 'ol Man?" 😍

And after I let it settle and rest a few days.. I'll spark it up, put my "mixing cap" on, most likely give it a wee tweak here and there with fresh ear, let it rest another day before putt'in on my "Mastering Cap" & upload it to Bandlab.

 I don't really want to knock ALL the flaws out of it because... 🤔 Well 'over production' is, or should be considered a sin, and in the words and infinite wisdoms of the great "Ray Davies" of the great wave of "British Invader Bands of the 60's" called "The Kinks"... "If ya take all the FLAWS out of Rock Music, then it's NOT ROCK MUSIC ANYMORE!🙏🏼