Let your voice be heard regarding Sonar licensing (feedback has been requested)

[Jesse Screed]

I just realized my Chlorpromazine is by subscription, damn.

[Brian Walton]

1 hour ago, antler said:

I know of two plugin subscriptions that mitigate that:

• PA gives you vouchers to 'buy' multiple plugins to keep.
• There's another company (possibly NI? - someone please correct me if I'm wrong) where the plugins remain openable, but no longer tweakable.

And there's Composer Cloud (and by extension of the idea, Musio, et al.), where you can bounce your audio down. It's not the same thing as you can no longer edit the part, but at least the project is still openable/re-mixable.

Not the same as a DAW though - I know.

There was a time when Cakewalk also had a rent to own type of subscription where you kept the last version you paid a monthly membership for.  

[mettelus]

The simple fact that if you don't maintain the subscription, your work gets held hostage totally baffled me. Even if I were a brand new user, that is a non-starter (not even close to being in the same league as Adobe). There are plenty of alternatives for new users without that "feature" included. Easier to simply vote with your wallet and let them figure it out on their own. It isn't worth wasting time assuming they will read or care otherwise.

[Jacques Boileau]

1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said:

The concern is that while CbB is presently available to use and being updated (in the recent past,  BandLab stated that the software would no longer have updates by this point) is that BandLab has already announced they will soon no longer update or support it. So it may have all sorts of problems in the future,  including activation issues. It's a dead end and something it's best to transition away from. For me, the whole advantage to going to Sonar (and I used the original Sonar since version 1) is that my Cakewalk files would open up in it without issues. Otherwise, if that weren't  the case, I'd just move to Studio  One Pro. 

If I remember correctly, what was stated is that there will not be new functionality on the free version but there would be bug fixes if something is broken. That would include, I am sure, activation problems.

[Brian Walton]

1 hour ago, mettelus said:

The simple fact that if you don't maintain the subscription, your work gets held hostage totally baffled me. Even if I were a brand new user, that is a non-starter (not even close to being in the same league as Adobe). There are plenty of alternatives for new users without that "feature" included. Easier to simply vote with your wallet and let them figure it out on their own. It isn't worth wasting time assuming they will read or care otherwise.

Agreed except that you can see by some posts there a some individuals that are voting against this rational thought process and actually buying a subscription.  

 

[DeeringAmps]

Poll is up in the Sonar forum. 
@Brian Walton

@Starship Krupa

@Jesse Screed

@antler

@Vernon Barnes

@GroverKen

@Grem

@Bapu

I know I missed a few, on my phone, please  don’t feel left out. 

t

[Misha]

Not subscribing, even at $1 a month, or even free for that matter, unless last version after 12 months paid subscription period is granted, or other licensing options are on the table.  I would rent a movie, but not a tool I intend to use on regular basis. 

I voted, with generic contact form Ashwin provided. However, even the Ashwin  wording: "we'll be able to compile", hints that their request to "for the relevant team" will also likely be generic.  

Two other "public" BL emails I think worth of considering are:

General:

INFO@BANDLABTECHNOLOGIES.COM

PR:

PRESS@BANDLABTECHNOLOGIES.COM

 

 

[PavlovsCat]

13 hours ago, DeeringAmps said:

Poll is up in the Sonar forum. 
@Brian Walton

@Starship Krupa

@Jesse Screed

@antler

@Vernon Barnes

@GroverKen

@Grem

@Bapu

I know I missed a few, on my phone, please  don’t feel left out. 

t

I thought it was an actual poll. If you wouldn't mind doing an actual poll where people can check their preference without making a post, I'd do it and I'm sure it will get a much greater response. After BandLab closed the other thread and referred to posts as complaining and getting on a soapbox, I'm sincerely not comfortable posting about the matter in the Sonar forum. I'd bet I'm not alone. 

Edited July 9 by PavlovsCat

[PavlovsCat]

12 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

What they said was that they (the Cakewalk staff) were already aware of our preferences in licensing and that discussions of licensing models were no longer welcome on the forum.

Then a BandLab employee told us that they are indeed interested in hearing from us and provided a means to do so that doesn't involve the forum.

As a veteran of multiple software companies, I have a theory as to what the situation may be.

The person(s) at BandLab who calls the shots on this may have a single mandate which is to sell more memberships. Period. Their bonuses and possible promotions are tied to how well they do that.

If so, then to them, Sonar and Next are merely further incentives to buy a membership. At worst, in this scenario the sale of perpetual licenses is actually at odds with their mandate, because they don't require signing up for a membership.

If my suspicions are correct, then the best we can hope for in the short term is a hybrid plan similar to the Studio One+ hybrid, where a year of subscribing nets you a perpetual license and use of the membership benefits during that time period.

That would satisfy the mandate to sell memberships as well as satisfying our desire to own perpetual licenses.

As far as the issue of being able to work on existing projects goes, CbB is still free to use, still being bug fixed, and will open Sonar projects just fine.

I missed on why I find their response a big deal. Having led digital marketing at a couple of global brands and led social media at three global brands, if employees shutdown customers from a discussion on one if those brand's public forums like was done here,  it would be a major issue for those employees (I'd talk to them and have them attend training) -- as it would be at any customer centric company. A customer focused brand needs to respect customers and allow them to voice positive and negative feedback. 

As long as the customers are civil,  you don't censor them or demean groups of customers as complainers, as standing on a soapbox, declaring that no additional discussions are permitted on the topic, and close the thread. What commonly happens is that censored customers will develop negative feelings toward the brand and have similar conversations elsewhere where the brand doesn't have a voice. Any customer focused CMO or brand exec would be pretty horrified at what was done in this case. 

Now maybe you might rationalize it that the employees that censored the thread and the one who posted about customers "complaining" and on a "soapbox" don't represent management, but I find if the company culture allows them to treat customers that way -- if they think they'll get away with it -- it's a pretty clear sign of a company that shares those same feelings towards customers.  That experience very quickly changed my opinion of BandLab. I would hope, in the near future,  that senior management issues a statement letting customers know their voice is valued despite these communications.  

Edited July 9 by PavlovsCat

[Grem]

1 hour ago, DeeringAmps said:

Poll is up in the Sonar forum. 

I didn't see a 'poll' where I could actually cast a vote.

But I did see the thread where the BL rep told us to fill out a support request.

[Heath Row]

2 hours ago, Grem said:

I didn't see a 'poll' where I could actually cast a vote.

But I did see the thread where the BL rep told us to fill out a support request.

I do believe the 'Poll' has been removed. I seen it there earlier on, but now it be gone.

[DeeringAmps]

3 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

I thought it was an actual poll.

 

2 hours ago, Grem said:

3 hours ago, DeeringAmps said:

 

I didn't see a 'poll'

You got me. Setting up a real poll is beyond the limits of my attention span. 
My apologies. 
Someone could set it up properly!

t

[DeeringAmps]

 

3 minutes ago, Heath Row said:

do believe the 'Poll' has been removed

Saved me some embarrassment!

my thanks to whoever done it. 

t

[craigb]

8 minutes ago, Heath Row said:

I do believe the 'Poll' has been removed.

No, Bapu is still here!!! ?

[Heath Row]

8 hours ago, DeeringAmps said:

 

Saved me some embarrassment!

my thanks to whoever done it. 

t

I believe it was USS Enterprise (think on that for a bit). After a little investigation that is where the finger pointed.

Edited July 9 by Heath Row
hint

[mettelus]

10 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

but I find if the company culture allows them to treat customers that way...

...they don't last very long. I haven't seen a company yet that told their customers, "Shut up and give me your money!" survive. You would expect that line to come from a mugger, not a company representative (regardless of level).

Oddly enough, I got a call yesterday about another company who buried themselves (totally gone) in roughly a year due to arrogance. Even Gene Simmons realizes you cater to your fans... they are the hands that feed you.

[GTsongwriter]

I'd love to see a scheme similar to Reaper.  I don't mind to pay for the next whole version for Reaper.  I started at version 6.99 and when Reaper gets to 7.99, I don't get no more upgrades unless I pay for it again. 

But then again, I don't create any commerical music.  I just make music for non-commercial use, like showing off my music on YouTube without monetization.  I forgo any monetization on YouTube.  My music is free to listen to.  A lot of content I create goes to creative commons.

So .. Hopefully, there's a version for that?

[Bapu]

9 hours ago, craigb said:

No, Bapu is still here!!! ?

I only just woke up, read the obits and I was not there.

So yeah, I'm still here.

[Brian Walton]

33 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

I'd love to see a scheme similar to Reaper.  I don't mind to pay for the next whole version for Reaper.  I started at version 6.99 and when Reaper gets to 7.99, I don't get no more upgrades unless I pay for it again. 

But then again, I don't create any commerical music.  I just make music for non-commercial use, like showing off my music on YouTube without monetization.  I forgo any monetization on YouTube.  My music is free to listen to.  A lot of content I create goes to creative commons.

So .. Hopefully, there's a version for that?

These companies don't seem to care that the number of people actually turning a profit after all music equipment and lessons are paid off on the music they create are likely 1 in 10,000.   Sad really.

[GTsongwriter]

4 minutes ago, Brian Walton said:

These companies don't seem to care that the number of people actually turning a profit after all music equipment and lessons are paid off on the music they create are likely 1 in 10,000.   Sad really.

Reaper seems to care.