smallstonefan Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 4 hours ago, Bapu said: Are they building a room inside the room? The plan is a room within a room on a floating floor. ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57Gregy Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 On 7/26/2024 at 2:33 PM, smallstonefan said: They guestimate 9 to 12 months for the work. They do know the house is already built, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 3 hours ago, 57Gregy said: They do know the house is already built, right? On 7/26/2024 at 7:41 PM, smallstonefan said: The plan is a room within a room on a floating floor. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettelus Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 On 7/26/2024 at 10:41 PM, smallstonefan said: The plan is a room within a room on a floating floor. ? Out of curiosity, did they explain the reasoning for this? I checked out their site quick but didn't find a reference. In my experience, structural isolation has only had two applications - optics tables (specifically for high precision lasers so external/environmental vibrations do not transmit to the table), and sound isolation to prevent transmission of mechanical vibration to the walls (specifically machinery to the hull of a submarine). In neither case would sound within the room be affected, so it is intriguing me as to why it was recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 7 hours ago, mettelus said: Out of curiosity, did they explain the reasoning for this? I checked out their site quick but didn't find a reference. In my experience, structural isolation has only had two applications - optics tables (specifically for high precision lasers so external/environmental vibrations do not transmit to the table), and sound isolation to prevent transmission of mechanical vibration to the walls (specifically machinery to the hull of a submarine). In neither case would sound within the room be affected, so it is intriguing me as to why it was recommended. From my understanding it is a popular method of sound proofing. there is at least 6" of space between the inner and outer room. It typically means you can standd right outside his house and hear almost nothing there (while blasting a Marshall stack on 11), conversely he record with mics and the lawn mower+leaf blower+road construction should not bleed into his studio, Now, inside his house, that may be another story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallstonefan Posted July 28 Author Share Posted July 28 (edited) Ed's got the gist. In my case I need the inside of the house whisper quiet while I make noise - at whatever hour I choose. While the room only shares one wall with the rest of the house they believe that the flanking vibrations will be a problem so the room within a room and floating floor are for as total of isolation as you can get in a shared structure. Here's a nifty tool they have on their website so you can get a sense for what different types of construction do for sound isolation: https://www.haverstickdesigns.com/sound-isolation-simulator/ Edited July 30 by smallstonefan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 5 hours ago, Bapu said: From my understanding it is a popular method of sound proofing. there is at least 6" of space between the inner and outer room. It typically means you can standd right outside his house and hear almost nothing there (while blasting a Marshall stack on 11), conversely he record with mics and the lawn mower+leaf blower+road construction should not bleed into his studio, Now, inside his house, that may be another story. I try not to use the lawn mower and leaf blower inside the house... Just sayin'! ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 5 hours ago, Bapu said: From my understanding it is a popular method of sound proofing. there is at least 6" of space between the inner and outer room. It typically means you can standd right outside his house and hear almost nothing there (while blasting a Marshall stack on 11), conversely he record with mics and the lawn mower+leaf blower+road construction should not bleed into his studio, Now, inside his house, that may be another story. ... and it works surprisingly well. I can crank up my two 150W monitor speakers to full, walk around the outside my studio, and hear practically nothing. What it doesn't cope with as well is incoming low frequency noise, e.g. (real examples from personal experience): - People revving their Harley's like crazy - Guys digging up the road up to 1/2 mile away - Visiting US destroyers trying out their fog horn - Low flying Chinooks ... but perhaps the most baffling one, was a phantom kick drum that I kept hearing... turned out my neighbour's kid was practicing drums on his acoustic kit, inside his house around 80 yards away. The only thing that was getting through was the kick drum. It's worth noting that none of these would likely make themselves heard in a recording, and if they did they'd be drowned out in the mix (or you could easily gate them out). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 Interestingly, this is exactly why whales out at sea communicate using very low frequencies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 On 6/30/2024 at 12:33 PM, DeeringAmps said: Here is a link to the John Sayers website. Lots of discussion here about the “Room inside a Room” and “floating floors”. The “mids” you can block (lots of 5/8” drywall) and absorb (703 and/or rock wool). The lows, well like @craigbsaid; that’s the way whales, and I think elephants, communicate… t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettelus Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 I am still highly skeptical of a floating floor just due to the simple civil engineering aspect of a "floor," whether it be a concrete slab or pressed to a foundation via the weight of a structure. The lower a floor is in a home, the more inherent dampening it will have, and there are even structural requirements for resonance of higher floors if made of concrete (for earthquakes, or even people walking on them). The OP in this thread hit the majority of what I was thinking, but it only briefly touched upon inherent dampening and sound propagation into/out of inherently dampened surfaces (where reflection is the primary issue). If a floor is truly floated (some descriptions I saw were not), it can remove a substantial amount of inherent dampening and allow the floor to resonate at frequencies dependent on its size and composition (dampening is what offsets resonance). Walls, yes... the further you get from a foundation, the less inherent dampening is present, and walls are typically not constructed for this purpose (i.e., a "stick built house")... but a floor, not so much, unless in close proximity to environmental vibrations in the earth (i.e., a freeway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 4 hours ago, mettelus said: I am still highly skeptical of a floating floor ... Does the music studio Paul Allen had inside his huge Octopus yacht count as a floating floor? ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallstonefan Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 My last studio was built over a long period of time. I had one wall that was a double-wall construction and all sides where double drywall of two different thicknesses hung on channel strips. There was so much caulk used you could fill the room with water like a swimming pool. I did a very good job overall, but I never got containment to where I wanted it (the ceiling and the floor in particular). I did get it sounding awesome but I still felt more could be done acoustically. That's why I'm hiring professionals this time - I need this done right to use the room the way I want to for the next few decades. ? Here are two studios that the designers told me to look at to get an idea of the level of room I'll have when done. There are a lot of design decisions to be made so I have no idea where my final design will end up - but I sure do like those hexagonal acoustic panels! ? https://www.haverstickdesigns.com/portfolio-item/tori-kelly-studio/ https://www.haverstickdesigns.com/portfolio-item/jacob-biz-morris/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 All this talk makes me want to build a standalone studio on our property. I could make approx 18' x30' feet available with an 18'x12' control room. The natuaral layout of the land is such that the control room would raised about 2' from the main room. I'd have a 12' high ceiling in the control room and that means the main room would be 14' high (at least). I could have it constructed such that the control room could be a kitchen & eating area and the main room could have a bathroom added to facilitate a "granny house" for the eventual next owner. At my age it's prudent to think ahead. Now at $400 per sq ft here in California that amounts to $216K. I just know that would not be the final cost. So , the "brother can you spare a dime" saying is updated to "brother can you spare a half-mil" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallstonefan Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 The guys at Haverstick told me to expect $400-$500 per square foot for the studio project, so you are about right on that half million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Sounds more like their name should be "Have a stick" and they'll stick it to you!!! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Well, SSFan, if you gonna do it, do it right. Like you said, you tried and wasn't completely happy with the results. From the pics of those studios, I think you will get something to last you a good while. And if it keeps her happy, bonus!! Money damn well spent!! And you don't have to worry about bothering nobody. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 It would probably only be $200-$300 per square foot if the contractors didn't have to commute to the Portland Metro Area... ? (I might be joking! ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoo Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 7 hours ago, smallstonefan said: The guys at Haverstick told me to expect $400-$500 per square foot for the studio project, so you are about right on that half million. Bargain ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 20 hours ago, Bapu said: All this talk makes me want to build a standalone studio on our property. I could make approx 18' x30' feet available with an 18'x12' control room. The natuaral layout of the land is such that the control room would raised about 2' from the main room. I'd have a 12' high ceiling in the control room and that means the main room would be 14' high (at least). I could have it constructed such that the control room could be a kitchen & eating area and the main room could have a bathroom added to facilitate a "granny house" for the eventual next owner. At my age it's prudent to think ahead. Now at $400 per sq ft here in California that amounts to $216K. I just know that would not be the final cost. So , the "brother can you spare a dime" saying is updated to "brother can you spare a half-mil" All I can say is, whatever size you build it's never going to be big enough. I started off with 22' x 10' and it's ended up tiny inside, although perfectly useable if I'm the only person in the room. I've got another building which is approx 16' x 10', which I was hoping to put a drum kit in... but with sound insulation added it's gonna be too small to get a kit inside. I may still put a drum kit in it... but I'll be limited to using it when my neighbours are away (thankfully there's only two nearby). FWIW you can get great results from a log cabin with a room inside a room which can cut down costs significantly. My 16' x 10' cabin cost around £6K - soundproofing it would probably add another £2 - 3K. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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