Very Low Output Volume Levels

[Stephen Power]

The Master Buss gain is at zero (12 O'Clock) and the level is around -36db. The instrument vol is full on and the instrument channel is at 0db.

I can only just hear the track with the buss gain at 6.00.

Can anyone tell me what's happening and how to fix it please?

[Glenn Stanton]

presuming you are see a good strong signal on your meters, did you check:

1) your hardware output settings? if you look at your master buss, you should see the corresponding HW output faders.

2) your input to the monitoring system is correct - sometimes if you have multiple inputs to your monitoring, one of those settings could be  wrong - for example - in some IO units you have accommpanying mix software which can have settings specific to your output configuration

3) the volume control on your windows sound settings?

 

[David Baay]

 

10 minutes ago, Stephen Power said:

the level is around -36db

Do you mean in the Master bus meter, or the Volume control level? If the Volume control is at -36dB that would explain it. If the Volume control is also at 0dB, what instrument and what velocity do the MIDI notes have? Or are you just playing live on a keyboard?  Possibly there is a negative velocity offset (MIDI Gain) on the track? Or there's a problem with the analog ouput level to your monitors as Glenn suggested.

[Stephen Power]

5 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

presuming you are see a good strong signal on your meters, did you check:

1) your hardware output settings? if you look at your master buss, you should see the corresponding HW output faders.

2) your input to the monitoring system is correct - sometimes if you have multiple inputs to your monitoring, one of those settings could be  wrong - for example - in some IO units you have accommpanying mix software which can have settings specific to your output configuration

3) the volume control on your windows sound settings?

 

Thank you for your quick reply, it's much appreciated.

1. I'm not sure what you mean (newbie here). I've looked at the Master Buss but can't see any HW output faders.  The Master buss goes to my AI (Berhinger) which has headphones plugged in.

2. There are speakers attached to the AI, but they are not on. Again, not sure if this what you mean?

3. Windows volume is about 90%

[David Baay]

2 minutes ago, Stephen Power said:

can't see any HW output faders

Drag the pane divider at the far right of the Console view to the left to reveal hardware channel faders.

[Stephen Power]

5 minutes ago, David Baay said:

 

Do you mean in the Master bus meter, or the Volume control level? If the Volume control is at -36dB that would explain it. If the Volume control is also at 0dB, what instrument and what velocity do the MIDI notes have? Or are you just playing live on a keyboard?  Possibly there is a negative velocity offset (MIDI Gain) on the track? Or there's a problem with the analog ouput level to your monitors as Glenn suggested.

Thank for your reply.

The volume fader is at 4.0. The gain is at 0.0 and the output from the volume (the green bars) reaches about -36db. Again, as with Glen, apologies for the lack of techno speak in my reply,

[Stephen Power]

2 minutes ago, David Baay said:

Drag the pane divider at the far right of the Console view to the left to reveal hardware channel faders.

Thanks again. They seem to be OK?

[reginaldStjohn]

You need to follow your signal levels through the whole system.  On the track that the instrument is playing what levels are the meters showing?  What is the source of  the sound your are playing? Audio clip, Virtual Instrument inside Cakewalk or an external device?

[Glenn Stanton]

17 minutes ago, Stephen Power said:

The volume fader is at 4.0. The gain is at 0.0 and the output from the volume (the green bars) reaches about -36db. Again, as with Glen, apologies for the lack of techno speak in my reply,

no worries. if you're only seeing a peak at -36db on your meter -- your input signal is too low - so either you need to adjust the source (like a virtual instrument - turn up the volume), if it's the MIDI (perhap turn up the velocities (scale it)), and if it's audio (or the VI) then you might need to increase the gain setting to get it "in range". typically don't go past "unity" (0 = zero) on your track or buss volume fader (if you can help it) as this (usually) leaves headroom to increase the volume if needed.

[Stephen Power]

 

1 hour ago, reginaldStjohn said:

You need to follow your signal levels through the whole system.  On the track that the instrument is playing what levels are the meters showing?  What is the source of  the sound your are playing? Audio clip, Virtual Instrument inside Cakewalk or an external device?

(from my OP) The instrument vol is full on and the instrument channel is at 0db. The Master Buss gain is at zero (12 O'Clock) and the level is around -36db.

It's a virtual instrument (from my OP)...The instrument vol is full on and the instrument channel is at 0db (also from the OP).

Edited May 1 by Stephen Power

[Stephen Power]

@Glenn Stanton @David Baay Thank you for the help. I'm guessing it's something to do with the VI. I've tried other instruments and they seem loud enough and the Bus signal is strong.

One last question: The Master Bus outputs to Out 1 + Out 2 (Behringer UMC22). There are no other options. I assume that's how it should be?

[John Vere]

I have a whole series of tutorials that cover all this. 

I see you are using the Behringer UMC22 which doesn't come with an ASIO driver ( asio4all is not an ASIO driver) so that can cause some issues with audio. It it therefore not a recommended interface for Cakewalk products. But that's another topic,  but you need to be aware of its limitations as an interface. And yes it is only a 2x2 interface. 

This video has lots of info about signal flow and mixing. You might want to watch the others too. 

 

[Stephen Power]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

I have a whole series of tutorials that cover all this. 

I see you are using the Behringer UMC22 which doesn't come with an ASIO driver ( asio4all is not an ASIO driver) so that can cause some issues with audio. It it therefore not a recommended interface for Cakewalk products. But that's another topic,  but you need to be aware of its limitations as an interface. And yes it is only a 2x2 interface. 

This video has lots of info about signal flow and mixing. You might want to watch the others too. 

 

Thank you. I'll give it watch, John.

[Glenn Stanton]

5 hours ago, Stephen Power said:

@Glenn Stanton @David Baay Thank you for the help. I'm guessing it's something to do with the VI. I've tried other instruments and they seem loud enough and the Bus signal is strong.

One last question: The Master Bus outputs to Out 1 + Out 2 (Behringer UMC22). There are no other options. I assume that's how it should be?

if that's your only IO then yes, for me i have the UMC 202HD (which does have an ASIO driver) and Sound ID Reference so my output shows two options.

Edited May 2 by Glenn Stanton

[mettelus]

5 hours ago, Stephen Power said:

I'm guessing it's something to do with the VI.

Which Virtual Instrument is this specifically? I think that is what the question above was asking you. There have been VSTis over the years that either have abysmally low or oppressively high outputs on their default settings. It is always helpful with the OP to detail your setup so people don't charge down a rabbit hole on an assumed solution. The "instrument" referred to in the OP is still a mystery to people trying to help.

[Stephen Power]

10 hours ago, Glenn Stanton said:

if that's your only IO then yes, for me i have the UMC 202HD (which does have an ASIO driver) and Sound ID Reference so my output shows two options.

Thanks again Glenn. I'm saving up for an AI with an ASIO driver. When the royalties come in from my first album of TV documentary cues, I'll upgrade. I am genuinely writing one for a library, but it's not finished, so I may have to struggle with the UMC22 for a bit longer.

[Stephen Power]

9 hours ago, mettelus said:

Which Virtual Instrument is this specifically? I think that is what the question above was asking you. There have been VSTis over the years that either have abysmally low or oppressively high outputs on their default settings. It is always helpful with the OP to detail your setup so people don't charge down a rabbit hole on an assumed solution. The "instrument" referred to in the OP is still a mystery to people trying to help.

It's the Felt Piano from Spitfire Audio Originals (the paid version, not the one in LABS). No one had specifically asked me that question, and because of my neophyte status with DAWS, it didn't occur to me that they may all have differing outputs. Thanks for clarifying it.

Edited May 2 by Stephen Power

[Glenn Stanton]

hence the suggestion to turn up the volume on the VI and/or scale the velocity. yes, different instruments even on the same platform can vary wildly based on the intent of the instrument - felt pianos tend to be very very soft (by design). lately for soft, i've been using the Boz Digital New York L 1926, which via the controls let's you get a really nice soft, and depending, ethereal sound - "harder" than a felt piano but way softer than a regular piano.  anyways, felt pianos are so 2022... LOL. ? 

Edited May 2 by Glenn Stanton

[David Baay]

3 hours ago, Stephen Power said:

It's the Felt Piano from Spitfire Audio Originals (the paid version, not the one in LABS). No one had specifically asked me that question

I understand stuff can get overlooked in the shuffle, but I did ask, "what instrument and what velocity do the MIDI notes have?" 

Next place to look is at the meters in the Spitfire UI. If you aren't getting a good level out of the intrument, it has to be either low velocity into the instrument from the MIDI side or some setting in the instrument UI is lowering the output level. I'm not familiar with Spitfire stuff so can't give more detailed guidance.

Is the MIDI your own composition/recording, live input from a keyboard, or imported from a 3rd-party? If the latter, check the Event View for controller events that might be effecting the level (especially CC1 Modulation, CC7 Volume, and CC11 Expression)

Any FX or Prochannel inserts on the track?

The only other thing that comes to mind would  be having some other track/bus soloed with Dim Solo enabled, allowing a low level through from the Instrument track. But the default  gain for Dim Solo is -12dB so I would still expect more level in that case.

[Stephen Power]

On 5/2/2024 at 2:28 PM, Glenn Stanton said:

 anyways, felt pianos are so 2022... LOL. ? 

Try telling that to my music publisher - he's very keen for me to use felt piano on almost all of the 10 tracks of TV documentary cues that I'm currently writing. I've had to plead with him to let me try something different.

[Stephen Power]

22 hours ago, David Baay said:

I understand stuff can get overlooked in the shuffle, but I did ask, "what instrument and what velocity do the MIDI notes have?" 

 

Yes, I did miss that, my apologies.