gustabo Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 12 minutes ago, ancjava said: A lot of us is afraid that change to vector graphics will make the software much "heavier" and not performing as well as CbB on our PCs. (Especially that the specs suggested for Sonar are much bigger than for CbB_ I am planing to buy Sonar anyway but I wanted to have CbB as a backup. Espacially that it was suggested few times that CbB will continue to work indefinetly just without any support and now it looks like rules are being changed during the game. Vector based is actually less system intensive because the vector based graphics are dynamic and not having to load bitmaps into memory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) vector can also take more CPU to recalculate each time as well as typically being restricted to a single CPU (as multiple CPU vectoring is often more wasteful than simply processing on a single one...) Edited February 17 by Glenn Stanton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancjava Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said: vector can also take more CPU to recalculate each time as well as typically being restricted to a single CPU (as multiple CPU vectoring is often more wasteful than simply processing on a single one...) And while you usually can add more RAM the need of better CPU = new PC. That is why I belive that CbB should be just left activated after final update. Lack of support and promised affordable prices should be enough for everyone that treats music production seriously to evnetually switch to sonar anyway. Edited February 17 by ancjava 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Kelley Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) I violated the rules by my own assessment and I decided to delete the post. Edited February 18 by Terry Kelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjoens Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 My Q wasn't answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gustabo Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 1 hour ago, sjoens said: My Q wasn't answered. Minidumps? Absolutely send it to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 2 hours ago, sjoens said: My Q wasn't answered. You can send us dumps from any version within reason. We prefer dumps from the most recert version since it's thr easiest for us to access. Also issues from old builds may have already been fixed. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 15 hours ago, Glenn Stanton said: vector can also take more CPU to recalculate each time as well as typically being restricted to a single CPU (as multiple CPU vectoring is often more wasteful than simply processing on a single one...) I'm running sonar on a 10 year old pc with a very average graphics card and I don't see any performance degradation compared to cbb. The graphics look vastly cleaner rendered as svgs compared to bitmaps (no aliasing) and text looks much sharper too. This is especially evident if you are running at higher dpi resolutions like 2k or 4k. We have been paying attention to performance and have not seen any hit so far. In fact we've made other optimizations to rendering. Btw for those thinking they can’t upgrade without new hardware, my old almost 10 year old DAW PC is running with no issues on win 11 even though there's no TPM chip add the CPU is out of spec. There are ways to get windows 11 installed on older hardware 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 15 hours ago, ancjava said: A lot of us is afraid that change to vector graphics will make the software much "heavier" and not performing as well as CbB on our PCs. (Especially that the specs suggested for Sonar are much bigger than for CbB_ I am planing to buy Sonar anyway but I wanted to have CbB as a backup. Espacially that it was suggested few times that CbB will continue to work indefinetly just without any support and now it looks like rules are being changed during the game. Not at all. As stated we havent seen any performance downside. It was never implied that Cbb would be indefinitely made available only that it would be kept active during the transition period to Sonar. Its not going to be affected in the short term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Wynn Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 SO looking forward to being able to beta ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canopus Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 5 hours ago, Terry Kelley said: I violated the rules and deleted this. In a perfect world, everybody is his own moderator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazzP Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 I believe that the development team would not have put forward switching to a vector based GUI when they are not absolutely certain about it. Did you know that Ableton is using vector graphics as well? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 3 hours ago, JazzP said: I believe that the development team would not have put forward switching to a vector based GUI when they are not absolutely certain about it. Did you know that Ableton is using vector graphics as well? Yeah AFIK Ableton was vector from the get go. Most modern application use SVG vector graphics for art or a hybrid approach when bitmaps are really needed. In CbB all graphical elements are bitmaps including simple things like buttons. In such cases, the downside with bitmaps are they are much bigger than equivalent vectors leading to slower load time and memory bloat. Additionally applications that run at high DPI have to store multiple resolutions of the bitmaps to avoid leading to even more bloat. Otherwise you get major aliasing and fuzziness as seen in CbB when you run on high def displays. In Sonar almost all resouces are now vectors and very fast to draw since they are typically simple button graphics. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark skinner Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 On 2/17/2024 at 8:11 AM, Noel Borthwick said: In the future there may be a free version (with some limitations) however. @Noel Borthwick Any free version (without a timeout) with the ability to open project/bundle files and export stems would be a nice move. Especially if it will run on Win7! There are a few of us that don't have access to X -series or any 64 bit Sonar Daws. I can open these with my old 32 bit programs , but my projects are Loaded with vst3s and really not worth the effort. I am one of the users who will probably have to replace my PC and upgrade my OS to efficiently run the new Sonar. Timing will be crucial .. Thanks .. mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 yes, if you're not using 3D vector graphics (ala gaming ...) then it can definitely be fast and lower on resources. for me, i design things with a lot of 3D vectors and materials so i'm always wary of apps using vector UI unless they're basically the flat kind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gustabo Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 12 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said: yes, if you're not using 3D vector graphics (ala gaming ...) then it can definitely be fast and lower on resources. for me, i design things with a lot of 3D vectors and materials so i'm always wary of apps using vector UI unless they're basically the flat kind... Can't imagine the bakers using 3d vector graphics for Sonar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 27 minutes ago, gustabo said: Can't imagine the bakers using 3d vector graphics for Sonar... i could ? i was hoping for the 3D kind so i didn't have to buy that SSL 9000 in order to get 3D controls ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gustabo Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 1 hour ago, Glenn Stanton said: i could ? i was hoping for the 3D kind so i didn't have to buy that SSL 9000 in order to get 3D controls ? Maybe you can ask for an Oculus type user interface... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 2 hours ago, gustabo said: Can't imagine the bakers using 3d vector graphics for Sonar... We're working on a 3d visualization Craig Anderton version. When you are tired of mixing you can zone out watching your faders move in 3d on a virtual mixing board and your waveforms flying around the screen 4 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenLight Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 On 2/17/2024 at 3:11 PM, Noel Borthwick said: I think we've all learned that lifetime messaging can be ambiguous right? ? //// I don't think anyone expected that cbb would be indefinitely free forever. In the future there may be a free version (with some limitations) however. This is an interesting aspect that you bring up, Noel. But to be fair, the tables were somewhat reversed when CbB was introduced: many users expressed a lot of concern about the "free" product on these (and other) forums. They wondered how on earth that was possible, and what the catch was. (And to be a bit philosophical, what really was the catch? Is it the discussion of an expiring CbB that we're seeing now?) 16 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said: It was never implied that Cbb would be indefinitely made available only that it would be kept active during the transition period to Sonar. Its not going to be affected in the short term. It wasn't maybe explicitly stated, but from my memory I would say that it was heavily implied, several times. Maybe not intentionally? Or maybe we users read stuff you didn't say into what you said? Anyway, as you mentioned in another reply, a permanent CbB version for those who aren't interested or maybe invested in following along the new Sonar path would definitely "feel good in the belly". That said, I myself am looking forward to the new Sonar! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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