Bit depth question, different from other

[Pathfinder]

So, 99% of my project files are still midi with VSTS. I do have some guitar and vocal tracks recorded but nothing I can't easily redo and probably better.

My fractal audio gear is 48K.

So I guess it makes sense after reading thru the Bit depth Thread to just start using 28/24 going forward (always used 44.1/24 before.

I do have some relatives that would like a, wait for it, CD f my recordings. So in that case I would have to dither on down? IS this correct?

Thanks

Edited October 31, 2023 by Pathfinder

[HOOK]

You'll have to dither from 44.1/24 anyway - because you're dithering the bit depth down to 16 for a CD.  Don't worry about it.  Pick a dither option and go with it.  You'll likely never, ever hear the difference.

 

[Steev]

6 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

So, 99% of my project files are still midi with VSTS. I do have some guitar and vocal tracks recorded but nothing I can't easily redo and probably better.

My fractal audio gear is 48K.

So I guess it makes sense after reading thru the Bit depth Thread to just start using 28/24 going forward (always used 44.1/24 before.

I do have some relatives that would like a, wait for it, CD f my recordings. So in that case I would have to dither on down? IS this correct?

Thanks

Yes, to ensure your CD with play in a standard CD player it must be formatted for "music" (not "data") & authored 16-bit 44.1 k/Hz. 

I believe VLC Media Player can be used for authoring CD's. It's free and can read just about any audio/video file & will automatically do all bit depth & sample rate conversions for you.

But if you want to customize and get fancy, it'll cost ya. I highly recommend using "Nero" for burning & authoring CD's. It also covers DVD & Blueray discs and eye pop'in artwork insert/sleave design.

 

 

[Steev]

Nero Software

CD Burner & DVD Burner Software by Roxio

[Pathfinder]

Thanks Guys, Appreciate the replies!

I have Nero,. Also have Cd Architect and Sound Forge Pro 11. BurnAware Premium- so no problem there.

 

[pulsewalk]

5 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

So, 99% of my project files are still midi with VSTS. I do have some guitar and vocal tracks recorded but nothing I can't easily redo and probably better.

My fractal audio gear is 48K.

So I guess it makes sense after reading thru the Bit depth Thread to just start using 28/24 going forward (always used 44.1/24 before.

I do have some relatives that would like a, wait for it, CD f my recordings. So in that case I would have to dither on down? IS this correct?

Thanks

Always work the projects in higher bit depths, 24bit minimum, for the larger headroom. 32 bit is preferred, or even 64-bit floating point if the DAW allow it.

Do never lower the bit depth before mixing and mastering is finished. Once you dither the bit depth down, it will not matter if you bring it back to high bit depth, the information is already lost. Much like scaling down the resolution of an image, and scaling it back up again - the damage is already done.

So keep working in high bit depth till you're done, do the mixing first, do the mastering first, and then, after you're finished, do a dither down to 44,1kHz / 16bit.

Edited November 1, 2023 by pulsewalk

[DeeringAmps]

I work at 48-24, render at 32. Basically CbB’s default settings. 
I small “m” master the track in the original project. That final “bounce” is 48-32. That is the “master” (again, small “m” because I’m not a “mastering engineer”)

 I then export 3 files, all these are “dithered”
1) 48-24, this I call “high res”

2) 44.1-16 CD obviously 

3) 44.1-16 mp3 and I use the 320 setting, this is the file I put up on my website.

When I put the mp3 track on my iPhone it “crushes” it down to 240, right?

anyway, that’s what works for me, YMMV

t

[Pathfinder]

What is the "best" way to delete some vocal and guitar tracks-recorded at 44.1\24?  Going to 48\24 -As stated above -----so all my midi\vsts are ready for vocals and guitar tracks. I am starting over. I Have about 6 vocal tracks and 10 guitar tracks at 44.1\24.

Thanks

Edited November 1, 2023 by Pathfinder

[DeeringAmps]

Open the existing project, delete all audio tracks in the project and do a "file save as" and create a new "path".
Meaning a "fresh" folder that the project is saved in.
This ASSUMES that under Preferences>Audio>Driver Settings>Default Settings for New Projects>Sampling Rate: 48000 is selected.

IF you don't want to keep the existing audio tracks, delete the old project folder.
You can "import" the existing tracks into the new project and CbB will upsample to 48k, if you want to keep them.
There is a caveat here, make sure that the track length has not been edited, if it has CbB will "misplace" it in the new project.
"Takes" only compound this problem; best practice for me has been to "bounce" the track, take note exactly where it "lies" M:B:T in the project.
If it is Takes, then bounce each "take" to a new "track" and again note M:B:T.

I did exactly this before posting and it all went fine; BUT it was a "simple" project, not one with a ton of VSTi; AND it showed 48-24 AFTER
I closed the new project and reopened it. DO NOT work on it before you close it or you will be "trapped" at 44.1.

HTH,

t

Hey, since @scook hasn't been around to "correct" me, please chime in folks if I have any of this wrong...

Edited November 1, 2023 by DeeringAmps

[John Vere]

I made a video about this a year ago. 

You don't have to delete the audio, just convert it.  And the audio needs to be one continuous track from start to finish. So we make stems. 

The Steps 

First Highlight the audio tracks you want to keep. 

Then you export all the audio tracks using " Tracks no effects or automation."

choose 48/32 no dither

If they are mono choose Mono. It they are both you have to do this once for each type. 

Use entire project for range and export.  ( see screenshot for info) 

Now you can delete the audio, there has to be absolutely no audio in the project for this to work.

Open "Project -Audio files"  to check for hidden tracks. 

Change the project from 44.1 to 48 in preferences and using your audio interfaces control panel.  Make sure this shows now in the transport module. Don't forget to click APPLY. 

Now just drag the exported audio back to it's original location. Done. 

You now have the choice of redoing them or keeping. Doubt if redoing will be worth it.  

I have done this to about 50 of  my old 44.1 projects now,  Takes a few minutes at most. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by John Vere

[whoisp]

6 hours ago, DeeringAmps said:

all these are “dithered”

1) 48-24, this I call “high res”

2) 44.1-16 CD obviously 

3) 44.1-16 mp3 and I use the 320 setting, this is the file I put up on my website.

 

t

I still bounce MP3 at 48 (320)  highest quality possible you will notice the width is much better on test and less anti aliasing problems with sibilance, not that i use mp3 only to send to friends for demos over wattsapp etc 

Differing i use POW-R 1 as there seems to be no difference to 3 but im told its better to use Triangular for the perceived  loudness where im sure loudness would create more noise and dithering logically, which is not a good thing

What differing you sue tom?     

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by whoisp

[DeeringAmps]

Power-3, but don't ask we why. I can't hear a difference, but my 71 year old ears are "knackered", so no one should follow the trail I'm blazin'...

t

[Bristol_Jonesey]

22 minutes ago, DeeringAmps said:

Power-3, but don't ask we why. I can't hear a difference, but my 71 year old ears are "knackered", so no one should follow the trail I'm blazin'...

t

Tom, I did a test many years ago (when my ears were a lot better than they are now) - this involved putting an extremely long reverb tail on the end of a track and automatin the volume WAY up as the tail decayed. This was then sent through all the different dither options, one at a time and then listening to each of them afterwards.

The winner was Powr-3 as the decay was a lot smoother than any of the others

Edited November 1, 2023 by Bristol_Jonesey

[DeeringAmps]

3 minutes ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

Powr-3 as the decay was a lot smoother than any of the others

Good to know, thanks for that!

t

[Glenn Stanton]

• when exporting MP3 - all FX & etc + best rate possible (usually 320K) and Pow-r3 (if i'm posting to something with a maximum size (like 8Mb) then i may resort to 256K)
• when exporting tracks or stems to be reused in another mix - no FX & etc and whatever bit rate (for me typically 44.1 or 48K) and 24-bit or 32-bit float and no dithering.
• when exporting 2-track mixes, all FX & etc  for the raw mix - with the Pow-r3 dithering; and for the mastering mix - no dithering applied.

one interesting feature of Ozone is to listen to the effects of different codecs & bit rates and hear what is being removed. it's a good way to check mixes that are going into MP3 / AAC formats because it does affect the mix (like masking frequencies do).

[whoisp]

Basically Pow-r3 as lots of dynamic range (*Smother)  and Pow-r1 is more squashed for dance (Lounder) 

[Pathfinder]

6 hours ago, John Vere said:

I made a video about this a year ago. 

You don't have to delete the audio, just convert it.  And the audio needs to be one continuous track from start to finish. So we make stems. 

The Steps 

First Highlight the audio tracks you want to keep. 

Then you export all the audio tracks using " Tracks no effects or automation."

choose 48/32 no dither

If they are mono choose Mono. It they are both you have to do this once for each type. 

Use entire project for range and export.  ( see screenshot for info) 

Now you can delete the audio, there has to be absolutely no audio in the project for this to work.

Open "Project -Audio files"  to check for hidden tracks. 

Change the project from 44.1 to 48 in preferences and using your audio interfaces control panel.  Make sure this shows now in the transport module. Don't forget to click APPLY. 

Now just drag the exported audio back to it's original location. Done. 

You now have the choice of redoing them or keeping. Doubt if redoing will be worth it.  

I have done this to about 50 of  my old 44.1 projects now,  Takes a few minutes at most. 

Hey John

I am just going to try and delete them I guess. Their are only about 8 audio files and they were recorded while I was waiting for neck surgery- (ACDF) so not my best to say the least.

Thanks as always

Edited November 2, 2023 by Pathfinder

[John Vere]

I’m big on deleting stuff. I always can do better!  No muss no fuss. That’s why I don’t use take lanes or comping. Delete! Redo. 

[Steev]

On 10/31/2023 at 8:03 PM, Pathfinder said:

Thanks Guys, Appreciate the replies!

I have Nero,. Also have Cd Architect and Sound Forge Pro 11. BurnAware Premium- so no problem there.

 

Oh you have NO problems at all. I love Sony CD Architect v5.2 and v6 ?. They claimed v6 converted/ rendered to .cda faster than v5.2.  Maybe is does being measured in a bench test, but there is actually no humanly detectable difference between the two.

You can adjust timeline for silence or fade ins/outs between songs, tweak gain & compression per song.  You can even right click on any single song, choose "Open in Sound Editor" and it opens it in Sound Forge Pro for editing without even closing & reopening CD-A.

Doesn't matter what audio format you drop in that. It will analyze and warn you if there is any problems or inconsistencies before you burn or save an ISO.  You can audition and listen to what the .cda file sounds like before you do, so WILL get exact, precise results for what to be expected, and it doesn't get any easier than that.

I had always maintained a 100% Burn Rate with CD-A. Even more amazing is a 100%  ISO mastering acceptance rate from Disc Makers Inc. ?

Only reason I didn't mention it is because it's a x32 bit app and I didn't think it was available anymore.

But it DOES run on Win 10 Pro, but I'm not sure about Win 11?