Problems Installing Legacy SONAR

[Bill Phillips]

I'm starting over again installing legacy SONAR versions to gain access to legacy 64-bit plugins and I have a few questions.

I've read, TMK, all the forum post on this subject and have a half-dozen browser tabs open to them for reference, and I still found a way to screw the install up.

After working on it for several days and spending hours of trying to get the Dimension Pro 1.5 update to install with X1, I regressed to a restore point just after I installed my Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 and before I'd installed any Cakewalk software.

The programs are gone from the Programs and Features list, but all the folders and supporting files up through X1 are still there. Should I delete all of the Cakewalk folders and files?

I started with SONAR 8 DVDs because I wanted to have the Lexicon Pantheon reverb that wasn't available after 8.5 and I needed 8 to install8.5. I used advanced install but installed all 64-bit plugins. Was that a mistake? Should I have installed no plugins with 8 and just the Pantheon Reverb with 8.5? Would that have allowed me to install the full version of Dimension Pro with X1, or could I have waited to install Dimension Pro with Platinum?

My new PC is Windows 11. From reading Forum posts, my understanding is that these programs will all run on Windows 11, though I don't intend to run any other than CbB. I just want the plugins.

Sorry, and Thank you.

[scook]

1 hour ago, Bill Phillips said:

After working on it for several days and spending hours of trying to get the Dimension Pro 1.5 update to install with X1, I regressed to a restore point just after I installed my Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 and before I'd installed any Cakewalk software.

The programs are gone from the Programs and Features list, but all the folders and supporting files up through X1 are still there. Should I delete all of the Cakewalk folders and files?

This is up to you. If you are going to re-install the folders and files will be re-installed anyway.

If you wish to perform a clean install, removing all legacy Cakewalk files and CbB, the old clean instructions still work 

https://legacy.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013372/Clean-Install-All-Cakewalk-Software.

Be careful with these or any instructions regarding removing Cakewalk software. The instructions call for removing the default VST2 plug-in path "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Vstplugins" which may be a problem if the path is used for 3rd party plug-ins. Move/backup the 3rd party plug-ins before deleting the folder.

1 hour ago, Bill Phillips said:

I started with SONAR 8 DVDs because I wanted to have the Lexicon Pantheon reverb that wasn't available after 8.5 and I needed 8 to install8.5. I used advanced install but installed all 64-bit plugins. Was that a mistake? Should I have installed no plugins with 8 and just the Pantheon Reverb with 8.5? Would that have allowed me to install the full version of Dimension Pro with X1, or could I have waited to install Dimension Pro with Platinum?

My new PC is Windows 11. From reading Forum posts, my understanding is that these programs will all run on Windows 11, though I don't intend to run any other than CbB. I just want the plugins.

Wasn't the "good" version of Pantheon the one released before 8? IIRC, it was multichannel with some extra controls the stereo version bundled with 8 did not have. Regardless, both have been long eclipsed but if you want the plug-in, an advanced install should get it.  Don't remember if it was updated in 8.5.

As far as actually installing SONAR, I start with X2 to grab V-Vocal.

may want to review the SONAR Plug-in spreadsheet from this post

to see what else only came with X2.

Run the X2a update to get the last version of V-Vocal.

Then run a full install of Platinum.

Using the SONAR Spreadsheet again backfill with advanced installs of any other DAWs for plug-ins only. The old LP plug-ins were discontinued during Platinum. If you need those, the easiest way is an advanced install of X3- but, if necessary, I can look up which Platinum Engineering Suite installer has them. I know it has been posted before.

When done with legacy stuff...install CbB. Really, advanced installs of legacy stuff can happen anytime. CbB needs to be installed as the last DAW so that SONAR and CbB use the latest plug-in manager/scanner and shared plug-ins.

[Lord Tim]

Not to derail the thread or any actual answers (please still do answer Bill, folks!) but ... why tho? There's probably a couple of useful bits of software stretching back that far, but they've either been replaced by better Cakewalk versions, or other third party plugins that do the job much better in the ensuing decade or so. I get that there might be legacy projects that still use this stuff, and this is valid in that situation of course, but for fresh projects I'm wondering if this is more trouble than it's worth?

Of course, if you're doing it just for the hell of it so you have it all, absolutely go for it!  But I'm personally not convinced there's a real lot of value of such old products in 2023 myself. X3 or Platinum onward? Sure - I did that myself to get all of the stuff I paid for with SPlat, etc. but pre-X.... yeah, I personally wouldn't.

Sorry Bill, that wasn't much help to your question!  I'm sure someone will come along with an actual answer soon!

[mettelus]

@scook has quite a few posts on proper installation, which is basically in chronological order. Some of them need the core program installed to use functions (like VVocal) in the newer versions, but I am not sure of the details specifically to Lexicon Pantheon (he just replied as I was typing this).

As far as Dimension Pro 1.5... that has a separate installer AFAIK, so can be installed alongside whichever version you choose. There were a few updates to it, but it should still be in your Cakewalk account and available through the old download assistant.

[scook]

Yeah, DP has always been separate and unless one needs the DX format for legacy projects any v1.5 installer will work. 

The Cakewalk Command Center still works and for products with a CCC aware installer like DP v1.5, CCC is the easiest way to install activate legacy Cakewalk products.

[John Vere]

I have done things out of order a few times and I never seemed to have anything weird happening to CbB but possibly because I always leave folder pathways and such to defaults. And I  have 8.5 then jump to X3 and I have the Lexicon Reverb. So I’m sure I got it from 8.5.

But as I say I remember looking for it and Tru Piano and just ran the 8.5 installer only checking the bare bones of what I needed. This was long after I had installed the rest of them. 
Note you should really copy the disks to your hard drives as I would not trust an optical disk as a dependable source.  

Edited August 9, 2023 by JohnnyV

[Bill Phillips]

4 hours ago, scook said:

This is up to you. If you are going to re-install the folders and files will be re-installed anyway.

If you wish to perform a clean install, removing all legacy Cakewalk files and CbB, the old clean instructions still work 

https://legacy.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013372/Clean-Install-All-Cakewalk-Software.

Be careful with these or any instructions regarding removing Cakewalk software. The instructions call for removing the default VST2 plug-in path "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Vstplugins" which may be a problem if the path is used for 3rd party plug-ins. Move/backup the 3rd party plug-ins before deleting the folder.

Thanks. I'm really trying, but so far not, succeeding in making a clean install. I'll use the clean install instructions. I think I have them saved in OneNote as well. Other than my Scarlett 18i8, Cakewalk is the first DAW software I'm installing. So I don't need to worry about other plugins.

4 hours ago, scook said:

Wasn't the "good" version of Pantheon the one released before 8? IIRC, it was multichannel with some extra controls the stereo version bundled with 8 did not have. Regardless, both have been long eclipsed but if you want the plug-in, an advanced install should get it.  Don't remember if it was updated in 8.5.

I'm interested in the stereo version that came with 8. It disappeared after 8.5 according to the spreadsheet. I should be able to install it in 8 & 8.5 to get the update if there was one. I didn't remember to choose the minimal installations when installing yesterday. Hopefully, I'll remember that tomorrow.

4 hours ago, scook said:

As far as actually installing SONAR, I start with X2 to grab V-Vocal.

I think there are a couple of plugins from X1 that I'd like to install.

4 hours ago, scook said:

(You) may want to review the SONAR Plug-in spreadsheet from this post

to see what else only came with X2.

Run the X2a update to get the last version of V-Vocal.

Then run a full install of Platinum.

Using the SONAR Spreadsheet again backfill with advanced installs of any other DAWs for plug-ins only. The old LP plug-ins were discontinued during Platinum. If you need those, the easiest way is an advanced install of X3- but, if necessary, I can look up which Platinum Engineering Suite installer has them. I know it has been posted before.

When done with legacy stuff...install CbB. Really, advanced installs of legacy stuff can happen anytime. CbB needs to be installed as the last DAW so that SONAR and CbB use the latest plug-in manager/scanner and shared plug-ins.

I am using the spreadsheet. I have that in OneNote as well. I've now got a copy that is highlighted to show when the plugins I'm interested in were last available so that I'll get the latest version.

I will do full Platnium install followed by CbB.

This PC is Windows 11 Pro. So, I'm hoping that won't cause any problems. IIRC, all the anecdotal accounts I've noticed on the forum have indicated that no one is having problems with Windows 11.

Thanks again.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Bill Phillips
Added mising info

[Bill Phillips]

5 hours ago, mettelus said:

As far as Dimension Pro 1.5... that has a separate installer AFAIK, so can be installed alongside whichever version you choose. There were a few updates to it, but it should still be in your Cakewalk account and available through the old download assistant.

Well, I'd installed 1.2 first which required me to use the 1.5 update, but the update wouldn't install because it couldn't find the 1.2 version. I then uninstalled the 1.2 version and tried to run the complete install version of 1.5, but it balked and said it found an older version. That's when I gave up used a restore point to eliminate all the Cakewalk installs. Hopefully this time I'll not install the 1.2 version and be able to install the full 1.5 version using Command Center as @scook suggested.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Bill Phillips

[Bill Phillips]

4 hours ago, scook said:

Yeah, DP has always been separate and unless one needs the DX format for legacy projects any v1.5 installer will work. 

The Cakewalk Command Center still works and for products with a CCC aware installer like DP v1.5, CCC is the easiest way to install activate legacy Cakewalk products.

I hope I can remember to not install Dimensiion Pro until I get to Platinum where I can use Command Center.

[mettelus]

I didn't think about the update part. For things that are individually listed in the CCC, I would just run those installers and not the ones included with SONAR versions. The ones in the CCC are the "final" builds of software that evolved over the Platinum era and self-contained (if listed there).

Quick edit: I am "pretty sure" that the converse is also true... if you install DP 1.5, DP 1.2 will stop the installation and say a newer version is already installed.

Edited August 9, 2023 by mettelus

[Bill Phillips]

1 hour ago, JohnnyV said:

I have done things out of order a few times and I never seemed to have anything weird happening to CbB but possibly because I always leave folder pathways and such to defaults. And I  have 8.5 then jump to X3 and I have the Lexicon Reverb. So I’m sure I got it from 8.5.

But as I say I remember looking for it and Tru Piano and just ran the 8.5 installer only checking the bare bones of what I needed. This was long after I had installed the rest of them. 
Note you should really copy the disks to your hard drives as I would not trust an optical disk as a dependable source.  

Thanks. But if you have 8.5 you must also have 8 since 8.5 is an update for 8. Hopefully, there's an advanced minimal install for 8. I did a full install yesterday.

Good idea on copying DVDs to SSD drives. It's nice to know the installers will run from a SSD. I had trouble getting some of the DVDs to load for 8, but in the end they all did and I had no other problems.

Historically I've altered install paths in the past but this time I'm sticking  with the defaults.

 

[Bill Phillips]

6 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

Not to derail the thread or any actual answers (please still do answer Bill, folks!) but ... why tho? There's probably a couple of useful bits of software stretching back that far, but they've either been replaced by better Cakewalk versions, or other third party plugins that do the job much better in the ensuing decade or so. I get that there might be legacy projects that still use this stuff, and this is valid in that situation of course, but for fresh projects I'm wondering if this is more trouble than it's worth?

Of course, if you're doing it just for the hell of it so you have it all, absolutely go for it!  But I'm personally not convinced there's a real lot of value of such old products in 2023 myself. X3 or Platinum onward? Sure - I did that myself to get all of the stuff I paid for with SPlat, etc. but pre-X.... yeah, I personally wouldn't.

Sorry Bill, that wasn't much help to your question!  I'm sure someone will come along with an actual answer soon!

Thanks. You're right. I'm thinking it might be handy when opening old projects, but it has been a lot of trouble so far. I'm thinking most of the 64-bit plugins from SONAR 8 on should run, though I've had issues with some of them. However, earlier, mostly 32-bit, versions are probably useless and I'm not bothering with those. Also, I'm nostalgic and like to look back at the way it was, when we were younger. Hey, that might be a good hook?

[Bill Phillips]

14 hours ago, scook said:

If you wish to perform a clean install, removing all legacy Cakewalk files and CbB, the old clean instructions still work 

https://legacy.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013372/Clean-Install-All-Cakewalk-Software.

For me Regedit was not required because I used a Restore Point to uninstall Cakewalk software which allowed me to time travel back to when Cakewalk software had been installed. ☺️