Introducing Cakewalk Next and our new brand identity

[Teksonik]

Right....here we go. We all should have seen this day coming.

In one way having Sonar generate a revenue stream is beneficial as it funds future development and current support. Hopefully it will succeed so a day like this one doesn't happen for it, finding out development has stopped. 

So on one hand I'd like to support the new endeavor but.....having been a paying customer up to Sonar X3 I don't know how much I'd be willing to pay to get back on the train.

Knowing this day would come eventually I never let myself fall too much in love with CbB so it's not one of my most frequently used DAWs.  But I wouldn't want to lose it because it does serve a purpose although not a critical one. Hopefully the last free update of CbB will continue working on Windows for the foreseeable future but of course once development stops on a piece of software you're on your own.  

So for me to purchase an update of something that has been free, that update has to bring something of value equal to the update price.  We'll see what the future holds.....

[Terry Kelley]

Considering the fact that CbB barely gets honorable mention if any mention at all in DAW reviews, management has to know they can't expect to compete with the current favorite DAWs by pricing in their range with these new products. Maybe they will go for generating a user base to pay the bills first and price it somewhere very inciting.  At least, I hope so. 

But as said, we have to see what reality turns out to be.

[sjoens]

I just want it to work...     .

 

[InstrEd]

Is it out yet

 

[RBH]

Very much looking forward to Sonar specific Plug-in and VSTi development. It's really great to see a long term plan moving forward - and great team of Bakers staying dedicated to the product. You folks really are stand outs in your field.

[Michael Richard]

1 hour ago, noynekker said:

So, will there be any Staff View updates ?

 

Staff was one of the most requested and debated feature update in the forum before the CbB days. I was so often outspoken about the regretable state of functionality and UX of Staff and how/what could be upgraded.

Unfortunately it has not gotten any love then and since... That is truly regrettable as of course notation is the "language/alphabet" of music that many musicians know and use.

I always believed this was one of the important reasons all versions of Cakewalk were never considered industry standard. Look at what is offered in Studio One, Cubase,... 

I have long given up on hope for a revamped Staff (and no, I never expected anything like Sybellius) but talks of a new Sonar and a /simpler to code' vector based UX has planted a tiny seed of optimism.

 

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

Seeing talks about vector UX and 4k makes me pray you're not gonna make the UI so large that the only way for you to have any space in it is running it on a 4k display. FL Studio has done it and roughly 70% of the interface is occupied by menus and panels and you cannot fit the large windows in your screen if it's below 1080p. And the worst part of it is you can only make the UI bigger.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Bruno de Souza Lino

[Will.]

Next is looking sexXYY!

Can't wait to see how the new UI will look, especially the sidechain and output layout. 

So this means Bandlab officially now owns all rights to the Cakewalk brand if the name is changing back to "Sonar?" Exciting news indeed. Growth is a wonderfull adventure. We all can oneday say - we were there and that somewhere in here I have my ones and zeros printed in. 

Bravo! Team! Thanks for all the hardwork and the ears you lend out everyday to your community. Cant wait to be part of the first group/community to experience the new look.

[Ralph]

Will legacy Sonar and Home Studio owners be given access, or deep upgrade discounts to the new Sonar? I've been a faithful Cakewalk user for more than twenty years, and while I appreciate the massive improvements and free access to what is essentially a full version of Sonar Producer, I would be upset to be locked out of projects and software that I've updated with Cakewalk by Bandlab.

And no, Sonar was not created under Gibson's ownership. It was a years-long collaboration between Twelve Tone Systems (the creators of the original Cakewalk), and Roland Musical Instruments. Z3ta, Roland Groove Synth, Rapture, Dimension Pro, and Cakewalk Sound Center were all products of that partnership, as well as the sounds in TTS1 gm synth, which were built on the Roland Sound Canvas. 

The CA-2 Leveling Amp, a couple compressors, several now-stock Cakewalk effects, the original Pro Channel were designed by the legendary Craig Anderton, who taught many musicians and aspiring electronics engineers to build their own effects pedals and sound equipment through his columns in Guitar Player, Keyboard Magazine and Electronic Musician, the last of which, he was creator and publisher. He also gave us the first set of guitar sounds available in CSC and Rapture, which it seems were either dropped or augmented by Gibson, in favor of Les Paul samples.

I hate to say it, but Gibson did very little for the Cakewalk community, in their 3 years, or so, of ownership. It is understandable, though, as they were going through a rather gnarly period of financial stress, themselves.

Bandlab saved Cakewalk, and for that, I am extremely grateful. I hope this evolution is beneficial to the dedicated community of Cakewalk users, and to Bandlab, as owners.

Rant over. Thanks for reading.

[tigny]

17 hours ago, wetdentist said:

just out of  curiosity, will the Cakewalk by Bandlab software continue working after the Sonar/Next release?

In the description they state the new products will be installed along Cakewalk by BandLab so I suppose it will still work. Also in the thread @Noel Borthwick states that CbB will be bug fixed one last time.

Edited June 7, 2023 by tigny

[flangad]

8 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

>>"Annual" means no expiry / no deactivation after one year,   just no further free updates after the year, right?

Exactly. We were one of the few companies offering this model even in the SONAR days. How it works is you either pay for 12 consecutive monthly subs OR you purchase a one year subscription upfront. In both scenarios the last months version is permanently unlocked for you and you own it.  This is essentially no different than buying an annual version of the software outright. Many people who dislike subscription are unaware that we always did this.

Also, an advantage of monthly subscription was that once you crossed the 12 month boundary you could continue consecutive monthly subs for however long as you want and you would always own the last version you paid for.

All subs are not bad and are actually better for some people who prefer paying in smaller increments. So definitely read the fine print.

Disclaimer: To be clear I'm not saying that this is going to be our model. We're still very much working out the details here. I was quoting how it was done in the SONAR days and saying not all subscription schemes are the same. 

 

This model is fair if "updates" means "new features", but what about bug corrections? if someone paid for a software with lifetime use, at least bug corrections should be available for free with no time limits.

[JnTuneTech]

3 hours ago, sjoens said:

I just want it to work...     .

 

I will second that sentiment here.

While I am very thankful Sonar got revived and even re-released as a free licensing model (p.s. that term is important), I had been wondering for some time now, just how long that would last. -This recent development decision may fix that, for me -certainly for a while anyway. Because of course, no product, free or otherwise, is absolutely guaranteed to succeed. Amazing in some ways we even got here with our old purchases from the previous companies somewhat intact.

I plan to be positive, and work forward with what options suit my needs. And, so far it looks like familiar names & programming are still promised to be behind it.

 

As to all the licensing options, I see so many people get frustrated, and take it personally. Not just with this product, mind you, but many times now, in a multitude of contexts, over the years I have been both a musician and a computer & networking consultant, as- well as a personal computer user.

I will say, it took me many years to understand the methods by which computer software has changed what us consumers think of as product ownership. And sometimes it still bothers me even so. Regardless, I've learned that in reality, unless I am an IP owner or developer/owner of a software product, I have never owned any software put out by a major company. I have owned the hardware that may (or may not) properly run it, but that is it. I learned, eventually, that the majority of the software that runs on computers has a licensing model, and all major IP owners & developers have been using nearly the same terms since computers gained mass-market sales potential in the 1980s, and some even earlier. Most software is licensed, -not sold.

Cakewalk, and most all the software that runs on and with it, as well as the OS it needs to run at all, is given, or sold, on a licensing model basis. Since most of us can never live through reading all the reams of legalspeak and manage to follow references to often distantly posted terms and such, that we now routinely agree to, when starting up a new computer, or installing software, it may slip our minds. But make no mistake - software is not like the hardware it runs on or say, a toaster or a pair of shoes for instance, -perchance in our world maybe a nicely crafted guitar even.  -With software, all that is sold, or given access to for free, -depending on the licensing terms-, is whatever rights are stated in the TOS for us to use it. -Not own it. I know I never have. I don't own any software products or IP.

So, when it comes to paying for it, or complaining about what happens with it when true ownership, stewardship, and development decisions change, I just try to keep that in mind. And, depending on how much I trust that process, and whether I must depend on that process to accomplish goals I want to achieve, is how I decide whether I want to pay for one version of a software tool, or multiple versions, in lump sum or in payments, is how I go with licensing these days. -At least when there is a choice.

Again, I think the planned options revealed so far, in this latest continuation of the Cakewalk saga, seem promising, and I hope to continue growing with it, and the people who enjoy developing and using it.

[flangad]

9 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Sonar itself will run as demo for a 15 day trial period.

argh! so this confirm you have no plan to release a free version of Cakewalk Sonar witout time limit, right? The "paid version" will not be just to get new great features compared with what we have now for free, but for everyone : even the most "casual" user will have to go with a paid version (once CbB will be discontinued). is it right?

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

7 hours ago, Misha said:

License that doesn't expire, unlike subscription only models (possibly excluding future Sonar). 

It effectively expires as it's eventually rendered obsolete by O/s & hardware incpompatibility. I mean techinically I still have a licence for Pro Audio 9 but  I can't run it with any of the gear I own now. 

7 hours ago, Misha said:

Do you also laugh at people who prefer to own favorite books instead of  going to libraries?

 No. Only people that make bad analogies 

[flangad]

 

and what would you think of such pricing model:

release different versions of the software, based on a number of monthly usage hours. example:

- if you need less than 15 hours/month of Sonar usage, it remain free (you are a very casual user)

- if you need less than 50 hours/month of sonar usage, you have to pay a "small user" price

- if you need more than 50 hours of usage/month, you are an advanced/professional  user, so you have to pay a higher price.

don't you think such model could be fair and acceptable for everyone?

You could also have another "dimension" in pricing:

- one shot subscription: you get the software with time unlimited bug corrections but no future functional updates (you have to pay another 1 shot "upgrade subscription" to go from version N to N+1 or get a pack of new major features) , community support

-Premium yearly or monthly subscription: include functionnal updates as long as you renew your subscription , community suport

- professional yearly or monthly subscription : add premium support with SLA, chat/webconferencing, if possible multilingual

 

so you will get a price matrix like this: (see attach file)

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by flangad

[A Tolerable Quietude]

This is really, really welcome news to me! 

I love Cakewalk--I've used it in its various forms for over two decades, and I find the workflow intuitive in ways that other DAWs are not.  It's been great what Bandlab has done with it, but it's felt precarious to me because there's no way the increased Bandlab user numbers can possibly pay for the Cakewalk's continued upkeep and development.  So I'll personally feel much more comfortable if they're actually selling it, and their revenue stream comes from the actual users of the software, instead of however Bandlab memberships are monetized.

That said, I REALLY hate subscription models.  They seem so temporary and insecure.  I'd hate to have all my previous work and projects held hostage, where I'd lose access to the ability to open the files and work with them if I quit paying a subject-to-change subscription fee.  I bet this feeling is very common for Cakewalk users.  After all, *continuity* has been one of Cakewalk's distinguishing features over its many years and iterations.  I recently opened a .bun file I'd made in the '90s, and it opened just fine in CbB, which is freaking amazing!  So I do hope Bandlab has a "buy it" option for the next chapter of Cakewalk/Sonar.

[Harley Dear]

@Noel Borthwick

Our band uses Cakewalk for backing tracks which are played through our Soundcraft Ui24R Mixer. We have something like 250 backing tracks. They are all MIDI and use common VSTs like SST1 and SSD5  for drums. Using the Ui24R with Cakewalk means we can send various channels to the mixer and so it's reasonably complex ( as far as my limited knowledge of CbB goes ).

So my question is will I be able to open these CbB files up with either the new Sonar or Next and they will work straight off the bat, or will there be some complex conversion I have to carry out?

I don't mind paying for a decent DAW so money's not a concern. I am worried though that after a short period of time, even though CbB will continue ( unsupported ) that once it comes to the regular update question, our band will get caught short with no way to use our backing tracks.

I'd like to know more about the compatibility if possible?

I have attached our standard Cbcb template 

Thanks in anticipation

Harley

1A Cakewalk UI24R template SI Bass.cwp

Edited June 7, 2023 by Harley Dear

[tulamide]

What I expect from a free software:

Nothing. No, really. Yes, I have wishes for features, but I take whatever is offered and am thankful.

 

What I expect from a paid software:

Full licence ownership from day 1. A one time price to pay (maybe rent-to-own). Free error fixing updates. Strict seperation of core product and expansions, to see exactly what you get for your money. No subscription, no matter how it's designed.

[Skyline_UK]

I will never pay a 'subscription model' for anything.

It's what my dear Mum used to call a 'catch-penny'.  It's rapid growth in other areas of commerce, starting with gym memberships, now weekly food recipe boxes, pet food boxes and Lord knows what, has parallelled the trend of many people these days not bothering to check all activity through their bank accounts and being shocked one day when they find they've been paying a Direct Debit for something they stopped using months or even years ago.  A super wheeze for the businesses offering  subscription models, mainly because it disguises the true cost to the renter as 'an easier way to pay'.  But it's not for me, sorry.  I don't wish to cast aspersions on the motives of the folks currently deciding the new pricing structures; I'm sure they are considering our best interests, but there are obviously also business concerns and the siren voices of subscription lock ins must be wailing in the background! 

I am quite happy to buy software outright, and even pay for annual updates, but I will never rent any software. 

[Will.]

Everyone is taking what @Noel Borthwick said in his example to the sonar days on the subscription way out of proportion. 

17 minutes ago, tulamide said:

Full licence ownership from day 1. A one time price to pay

Thats what rent-to-own mean. You own the last month version of the daw when your last payment is done. 

This is what Noel said: How it works is you either pay for 12 consecutive monthly subs OR you purchase a one year subscription upfront. In both scenarios the last months version is permanently unlocked for you and you own it. 

I am onboard with this. If you werent part of the growth since day one - you wouldnt understand how far this daw has come. 

•Dynamic Waveforms

• New Sidechain Routing made easier 

• Arranger

• Articulations

• CA2A made FREE

• New Plugin flyout menus

• Better ARA intergrations

• Latest Elastic Audio updates

• Thousands of Bug Fixes

This is just to name a few updates and upgrades  Oh! and did i mention thousands of bug fixes and stability?

So, Im all for a subscription fee.