MarianoGF Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) In the website videos I see Next so similar to BandLab app, that I still can't understand the meaning of its (upcoming) existence. But maybe it's too early to take conclusions. Edited June 6, 2023 by MarianoGF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, gustabo said: Suggested specs are the words I see used, not requirements Suggested specs were also the words the people at TakeTwo used to describe the minimum requirements for KSP2 and you couldn't even run the game properly with a machine better than those. Edited June 6, 2023 by Bruno de Souza Lino 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herky Acuff Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Haha, I have bad luck. Purchased full Sonar a few months before it became free as Cakewalk By Bandlab. Now, maybe have to buy it again... (Not bitter, it will most likely be worth it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 53 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said: I would like see CbB remain available as a way to check out some of the features in CS, as a fully-functioning demo. Sonar itself will run as demo for a 15 day trial period. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Misha said: Noel, Thank you for your reply! Subscription is definitely something I am not interested in. While I own many great software titles, none are subscription. I like to own my software. Personal preference. And for that matter most of musicians I know will not touch "subscription" model. "For those afraid of the software deactivating, there are models that allow you to purchase an annual (non-expiring) license. " Noel, pretty please, small clarification. "Annual" means no expiry / no deactivation after one year, just no further free updates after the year, right? P.S. I do believe in supporting good software that I like very much, and I am certain team will come up with reasonable non-subscription competitive pricing. Just subscription in not my thing. "Waves" surely proved very recently that subscription only is not what their customers wanted >>"Annual" means no expiry / no deactivation after one year, just no further free updates after the year, right? Exactly. We were one of the few companies offering this model even in the SONAR days. How it works is you either pay for 12 consecutive monthly subs OR you purchase a one year subscription upfront. In both scenarios the last months version is permanently unlocked for you and you own it. This is essentially no different than buying an annual version of the software outright. Many people who dislike subscription are unaware that we always did this. Also, an advantage of monthly subscription was that once you crossed the 12 month boundary you could continue consecutive monthly subs for however long as you want and you would always own the last version you paid for. All subs are not bad and are actually better for some people who prefer paying in smaller increments. So definitely read the fine print.Disclaimer: To be clear I'm not saying that this is going to be our model. We're still very much working out the details here. I was quoting how it was done in the SONAR days and saying not all subscription schemes are the same. 11 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjoens Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 6 hours ago, IgoRr said: So far, there is not even a rough interface for the new Sonar anywhere, but I am almost completely sure that for editing/creating custom skins, a new Theme Editor will be offered, as it is now for Cakewalk, or the current version will work for the new Sonar. It sounds like it won't look much different but will be vector based instead of image based. So doubtful there will be much interchange but there will be a new easier to use theme editor. There's screenshots on the new site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Sorice Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Hopefully the 'upgrade' will play nice with all our 3rd party plugins/instruments. I'd hate to have to reinstall/reauthorize tons of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Theme editor is highly bitmap based so it won't work as is. There are no longer images to replace. The advantage is color changes are now much simpler with vectors. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Just now, Sal Sorice said: Hopefully the 'upgrade' will play nice with all our 3rd party plugins/instruments. I'd hate to have to reinstall/reauthorize tons of stuff. Zero changes to compatibility or program function. It will install side by side to Cbb and load all your plugins without needing to even rescan. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Sorice Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 1 minute ago, Noel Borthwick said: Zero changes to compatibility or program function. It will install side by side to Cbb and load all your plugins without needing to even rescan. That's good to hear. Thanks Noel! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjoens Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 1 minute ago, Noel Borthwick said: Theme editor is highly bitmap based so it won't work as is. There are no longer images to replace. The advantage is color changes are now much simpler with vectors. Nice. Does this mean things like Control Bar Modules and Console View elements won't be able to be "refaced" in any way... like making a flat surface shaded or more 3D? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubdisciple Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said: What bothers you most about subscription? It's essentially a pay as you go lease model and is beneficial for those who can't justify putting down a lumpsum of cash at one time... When phrased that way it doesn't sound so bad, but that highly depends on the model. I think Sonar's old model was better than most in that it allowed you to keep what you had paid for. Most don't. Also, your response in some ways answers the question in part. Just like leasing something like a car is not for everyone, leasing benefits certain types of customers. Leasing is awesome for a person who needs to be in the newest version at all times but not so much for the guy who is cool with the car that is paid off and runs well. Although it's true we never truly own software, the standard model at least gives the perception of ownership Another thing that is "bad" for some people about subscription models is the forced upgrade vs stability. The pricing is often compared with the assumption that people upgrade annually. Some people skip multiple upgrades if their current system is stable and the upgrades are heavily loaded with features they don't use. Sometimes the same individual can fit on both sides of that equation at different points. When I was regularly doing video production, motion graphics and photography, the adobe subscription wasn't too bad and it paid for itself. When I found myself doing less video work, it was just a costly bill that was not worth it. Davinci Resolve was a much better deal for me and for some is a better product with the exception of Photoshop. In any case, I have saved hundreds ditching Adobe. My fear is the lack of choice for subscription model. For me that is a definite dealbreaker. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgoRr Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said: The advantage is color changes are now much simpler with vectors. For me personally, it will be enough to be able to make the background in the piano roll light (not negative, as it is now), and so that the current theme "Tungsten" remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 5 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said: I wonder what OS will be supported? My studio computer will not upgrade to WIN11 so I'm stuck on 10 Their Specs Claim Windows 10 and up 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 15 minutes ago, sjoens said: Nice. Does this mean things like Control Bar Modules and Console View elements won't be able to be "refaced" in any way... like making a flat surface shaded or more 3D? Yes, you do give up some abilities with removal of bitmaps. But the benefits greatly outweigh this IMHO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Misha said: Bruno, I agree, requirements are pretty steep for "average" machine. A good and noble reason to maintain current CbB version available is... It is almost certain, many folks from less fortunate countries already adopted to it in the past several years, and since there are no compatibility issues with Win11, it should last for years "as is" with very minimal maintenance. P.S. Very curious if new versions will have classic "mercury" skin ProTools and Logic are the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milton Sica Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said: Yes, you do give up some abilities with removal of bitmaps. But the benefits greatly outweigh this IMHO. Is it possible to participate in the Beta version of this wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 30 minutes ago, sjoens said: It sounds like it won't look much different but will be vector based instead of image based. So doubtful there will be much interchange but there will be a new easier to use theme editor. There's screenshots on the new site. Toolbar arrangement aside. It looks like the Cakewalk we all know and love! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecelius2 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 29 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said: >>"Annual" means no expiry / no deactivation after one year, just no further free updates after the year, right? Exactly. We were one of the few companies offering this model even in the SONAR days. How it works is you either pay for 12 consecutive monthly subs OR you purchase a one year subscription upfront. In both scenarios the last months version is permanently unlocked for you and you own it. This is essentially no different than buying an annual version of the software outright. Many people who dislike subscription are unaware that we always did this. Also, an advantage of monthly subscription was that once you crossed the 12 month boundary you could continue consecutive monthly subs for however long as you want and you would always own the last version you paid for. All subs are not bad and are actually better for some people who prefer paying in smaller increments. So definitely read the fine print.Disclaimer: To be clear I'm not saying that this is going to be our model. We're still very much working out the details here. I was quoting how it was done in the SONAR days and saying not all subscription schemes are the same. This is very reassuring. Thanks for this post. FYI-- I am a LOYAL Cakewalk/Sonar/CnB user since 1994 (Cakewalk DOS days). I am glad to see there is a future for the Sonar DAW. I always upgraded/updated every year. Glad to see that the we can "always own the last version you paid for". Good news! I hope that there will also be some upgrade/update path discount like there was with Sonar over the years. As I remember we would get "Sales" opportunities to purchase the annual update at discount. I remember getting those special offers to purchase the next version at a discount for those who already owned the previous version. I looked forward to those deals, as I still do for Cubase, Studio One and Mixbus. Most DAWs still offer update discounts every year or every other year to update/upgrade so you don't have to buy the product anew all over. I hope this also will be an option for us with forthcoming Sonar DAW . Sonar/Cakewalk/CnB has always been my "go to" DAW. While Ii own and use Cubase Pro 12, Studio One and Mixbus , the Cakewalk brand has always been my first choice in DAWS. Thanks for securing the future of a great program! I look forward to learning more about the annual pricing (options) . Cecelius2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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