Grem Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) I have been in this camp for a long time. I don't see myself going anywhere. I don't think Bandlab owes me anything because I bought a "lifetime" license from Gibson. Come on people... really? I am willing to support this software. It does everything I need and want it to do. And it's workflow for me is better than anything else I have tried. Meng and the dev team have given me many years of free updates. They would have to do something really stupid to make me learn another DAW. And I don't see that happening. So I ain't worried. I am looking forward to this new Era that I will be a part of. For the new comers: hang on, it could get rough!! [TOTP!!] Edited June 7, 2023 by Grem TOTP!! 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Kelley Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) See, now I'm scared. And I don't even use Onstar. You know, maybe they will pay US to use it! Edited June 7, 2023 by Terry Kelley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 8 minutes ago, Greg Wynn said: I’ve had the opportunity to troubleshoot an issue on Zoom with @Noel Borthwick and the fact that he loves and takes great pride in this DAW came out clearly You hit the nail on the head right there!! All the devs show great pride in this software. You can see it in their responses on these forums. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Terry Kelley said: Get ready, your heated seats, remote start and entertainment system in your car will be subscription. BMW charges a monthly subscription for their heated seats and steering wheel. Not to install them. They already come installed from the factory. Mercedes Benz requires you to pay subscription in order to give your engine more power. This is only present on their electric cars however. Why do you think the industry is so heavily invested into electric vehicles. Hint, it has absolutely nothing to do with environmental causes. 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Kelley Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 I'm doing fine. Thanks Bruno! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Grem said: You hit the nail on the head right there!! All the devs show great pride in this software. You can see it in their responses on these forums. But is the marketing people we usually have issues with. Companies often don't want engineers and developers calling the shots because they tend to tell the truth. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Dickens Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Einstein R said: something that just popped into my head is like in the past, going towards a pay model for Sonar now, does that mean they will have to bring back tech support to help people through their issues with Cakewalk??? Of course, if a company is going to offer Tech support, then that's going to be more money they will need to hire people to answer the phones... Bring back? They've always had it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarianoGF Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, gustabo said: They didn't acquire the company, they acquired the intellectual property. As far as I know, if you acquire the intellectual property (as BandLab said in early 2018), you have the right to use the source code (the app), but not the brand "Cakewalk" neither "Sonar". So I guess that BandLab acquired more than just the intellectual property. But ofcourse I'm not sure at all. Edited June 7, 2023 by MarianoGF 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein R Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 18 minutes ago, Byron Dickens said: Bring back? They've always had it. Sorry, I meant to say an actual person to talk to for techsupport since now that's what people might want paying for the software.....instead of waiting a day or two for emails or virtual chat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 On 6/6/2023 at 8:35 AM, User 905133 said: Will Cakewalk by BandLab be discontinued? Yes, eventually. We will continue providing community support and maintenance for Cakewalk by BandLab until Cakewalk Sonar becomes publicly available. At some point after the release of Sonar, Cakewalk by BandLab will no longer be supported. Note that existing Cakewalk by BandLab users will be able to continue using the software after the release of Cakewalk Sonar. In the meantime, Cakewalk by BandLab continues to be available here. @User 905133 where did you find this quote. I'm looking for clarification regarding the removal of the Activation time out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarianoGF Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 9 hours ago, Lord Tim said: No you don't if you only purchase their intellectual property, which Bandlab did. They didn't purchase the company at all, just the code to make the program. They also hired the programmers that Gibson fired. But this is 100% a new unrelated company otherwise. I understand your point, that's what they said in early 2018. But if you acquire only de code, I don't think you can use the names "Cakewalk" or "Sonar", because that's not part of the intellectual properties. They are brands. But ofcourse I'm not sure, are all doubts I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhanson Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 It seems like some folks are getting hammered by others for having a little skepticism. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and certainly entitled to decide what they find attractive in which to spend their money on. I'm waiting to see the details. I don't mind options, especially if it offers some a subscription plan and others the opportunity to buy outright. I have been around long enough (2002) to watch Cakewalk/ Sonar go through many business models long before Gibson ever got involved. I used to jump in head over heals to which ever direction Cakewalk went. I'm a little more reserved these days, having gone through the last road bump with Gibson. As I had mentioned earlier in this thread, that speed bump caused me to rethink what I was buying and whom I was buying from, to support my needs long term. I no longer rely on Cakewalk or the plugins inherent with in Cakewalk, but have spread out my reliance to many 3rd party vendors. Kind of like not putting all of your eggs in one basket, should one vendor fail to stay in business. That being said, I was about to put $150 down to upgrade my Studio One V3 Pro to V6 Pro. I am now waiting to see where Cakewalk goes to make my final decision. Both programs are similar in the way they layout and function. I have always preferred Cakewalk, especially because I like the work space and layout of ProChannel. In many ways Studio One is more advanced than Cakewalk however. I basically only use the ProChannel plug ins and none of the other Cakewalk plug ins, so they really aren't a huge factor. My decision is going to come down to which platform is going to be my primary and which is going to be my secondary. Again, I am going to reserve judgement, until the cards are on the table. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubdisciple Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 10 hours ago, Moskus said: As stated by others, pricing is everything! I would recommend going the route of Davinci Resolve. It has a "free version" which works great and has like 99% of the features, but if you really want the advanced (and cool!) stuff you need the "Studio" version. Which is a one time payment, no subscription. And please keep your price reasonable. As an owner of paid version of resolve, i can say the reason they can do that is because (like Digidesign in the early days of pro tools) is a hardware company selling software as gateway to high margin hardware. You can tell software is more of a hook Than main income source. I do think it's a q better deal than most, but possible because of unique position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tim Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Just now, MarianoGF said: I understand your point, that's what they said in early 2018. But if you acquire only de code, I don't think you can use the names "Cakewalk" or "Sonar", because that's not part of the intellectual properties. They are brands. But ofcourse I'm not sure, are all doubts I have. The naming scheme is throwing a lot of mud into the water, unfortunately. What we had prior to Bandlab was a Gibson-owned company called Cakewalk. The flagship product of the Cakewalk company was an application called SONAR Platinum. Gibson closed down the Cakewalk company, and then sold all of the code, names, artwork... all of the Intellectual Property... to Bandlab Technologies. Bandlab Technologies used that code to create a product called Cakewalk. This isn't the company Cakewalk, it's what they named the application. Cakewalk the company is defunct. Now that there's 2 products in the stable at Bandlab, they renamed the product that was formerly called Cakewalk to Sonar. This isn't SONAR (all caps) Platinum, which was previously owned by the previous Cakewalk company, this is Cakewalk Sonar, owned by Bandlab. They obviously have the rights to all of the naming schemes, which was part of the Intellectual Property they bought from Gibson. Was it the right choice to call this new version of their application Sonar? That's debatable. I like it personally, but it's certainly confusing a few people. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc23 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) They keep throwing these veiled confirmations that, indeed, what is coming is a subscription model. For which a lot of people here keep saying is not what is desired. Comparing a daw with a car? To justify a subscription with the same arguments as corporations wave when dismissing your right to really own what you pay for? Just because people have lost perspective on the entitlement of a business over the reality of what you allow them to do, does not mean it´s correct, moral or ethic behavior. Remember, Bandlab is not a little independent company, run by three or four guys in a garage. Quite the opposite. So no, to whoever said "100% of people here agree", it´s just not true. And also no, "rent to own" or "perpetual license" is not "buy a 12 month upgrade plan", which actually is a subscription in disguise. So far, the only "new" thing offered seems to be this vector based gui. But for the rest, it´s even been said it´s going to be the same, all the way to the base code, which has been used countless times as excuse for not implementing very long requested features that are granted in other daws. Even things that were introduced by cw, and then left for dead. Remember multitouch support? Not a single change nor development since it was introduced in the win8 days. Not one. As someone asked, what then is the new value proposed for the asking price, whatever it will be? So far, not much in my opinion. And you want people to pay periodically? Also, I see the general attitude here is the same that made the old cakewalk forum famous for: "If you question this daw in any way, shape or form, you will be berated, shamed, belittled and thrown out of here... how dare you?!?" I have run in to this a couple of times, and there´s not much to argue against that narrow mindset. It seems times ahead are certainly not rainbows and sunny days. BTW, to those that payed for lifetime updates (even older cw versions, from sonar x2) and still keep proof of purchase, it can be used for crossgrade discounts for Cubase and for StudioOne. So, even other software companies are still willing to, in a way, honor that. Just so you know, to keep things in perspective. Edited June 7, 2023 by kc23 typo 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarianoGF Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Lord Tim said: This isn't SONAR (all caps) 2 minutes ago, Lord Tim said: Was it the right choice to call this new version of their application Sonar? That's debatable. Good points. I think theese are the keys to debate. But, ok, only a lawyer could clear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tim Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, MarianoGF said: Good points. I think theese are the keys to debate. But, ok, only a lawyer could clear them. Do you think they would be using the same graphics, names and even website for the last 5 years if they didn't have the rights? This would have ALL been part of the Intellectual Property. 18 minutes ago, kc23 said: So far, the only "new" thing offered seems to be this vector based gui. But for the rest, it´s even been said it´s going to be the same, all the way to the base code, which has been used countless times as excuse for not implementing very long requested features that are granted in other daws. Remember when Bandlab announced Cakewalk back 5 years ago and it was identical to SONAR Platinum? Now 5 years on, if you opened up SPlat from back then, there's a heap of stuff you'll notice is missing, let alone bug fixes. The idea of this is the rebrand, and the GUI which has had a lot of complaints in the forums recently about being blurry in places on high resolution monitors. They can either stick Bandaids over the top of the problem or they can bite the bullet and do the work to fix the problem, which is a MAJOR job considering it's a completely different paradigm as far was how the UI is created. Not surprised this is taking a lot of time to do, and not surprised that this will be the only real headline feature in the first iteration of the new product either. Not directed to anyone in this thread in particular, but nobody here is crapping on anyone for asking questions - it's obvious stuff is still being worked out at Bandlab HQ that the Bakers can't talk about yet, so it's fair to speculate. But man, there's a lot of "the sky is falling" and general FUD in these threads, threats to go to another paid product and learn a new system if they make this one a paid product (WTF?), or just general misunderstandings. At the end of the day, nobody here is your mum - if the terms going forward don't work for you, people all have the choice to go wherever they please. But throwing toys out of the cot because of speculation is ridiculous. Let's see what's actually happening first, this isn't even day 1 yet. Edited June 7, 2023 by Lord Tim 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 23 minutes ago, JohnnyV said: @User 905133 where did you find this quote. I'm looking for clarification regarding the removal of the Activation time out? https://www.cakewalk.com/sonar Scroll down to the FAQs > Will Cakewalk by BandLab be discontinued? Quote Yes, eventually. We will continue providing community support and maintenance for Cakewalk by BandLab until Cakewalk Sonar becomes publicly available. At some point after the release of Sonar, Cakewalk by BandLab will no longer be supported. Note that existing Cakewalk by BandLab users will be able to continue using the software after the release of Cakewalk Sonar. In the meantime, Cakewalk by BandLab continues to be available here. It doesn't say anything about the removal of the activation time out. So far I have only seen discussion (questions/speculation) by users. But honestly, there's too much Chicken Little stuff going on for me to keep track of what users are saying. But if I find a definitive statement about the activation feature, I will let you know. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Tolerable Quietude Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Lord Tim said: The have tech support now, either by submitting a ticket HERE or mailing support@cakewalk.com but they obviously need to keep paying these people moving forward... Not only that, but in my limited experience, Cakewalk's tech support is really good! I had a ticket open with them recently, and a ticket open with Native Instruments for a paid product. Cakewalk's tech support was prompt, courteous, and helpful. Native Instrument's has been extremely slow, inexpert, and ultimately incorrect. It's astonishing to me that Cakewalk's support team for a free product is leagues better than NI's for a paid one. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JnTuneTech Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said: My car is already subscription (OnStar). If I want remote access to it or to check stats, I have to pay $15 a month I got a few years of free access when I bought it. Actual appliances have already gone this way. The classic 90's software model of paying for a specific version has changed many years ago whether we like it or not. Buying, owning, many, many "things" in our modern world has changed, - a lot for some of us old enough (yes, I know, grumpy gramps talking...) - and that affects everyone, in different ways, to be sure. I've learned so far that I can only make as good a choice as I am capable of, and if possible, try and help to make it work out. When Gibson dumped on us with Sonar, we all had to deal with that. Now, somehow we are still here with a progression of Cakewalk software, and I for one plan to try and continue to make the best of it. -Of course - open forums encourage all opinions and expressions, but I have to wonder sometimes if people realize the logical loops created by complaining without offering any positive solutions. -Ah well, perhaps it all helps in the end. I just hope the devs can sort through all this hubub and continue to keep this Cakewalk thing going, and getting usable feedback from members here. It has previously been a mostly positive experience from my vantage point, so far. Yes - software, and related product "ownership" has changed a lot in the past 30 years & counting. But creators and companies that stay alive generally keep working because we support them with our dollars - with varying shades of the effects of the balance of power (wealth), of course. -I'm just happy Cakewalk wasn't dumped - again. On the grumpy side: I too wish I could use an iPhone 3 with the current Apple software and a phone provider of my choice. -Instead now of having a phone that could plug into any jack, in almost any major country, I have to pay again (or subscribe) to get an entirely new one, or eventually they cease to work for the primary purpose I bought it for. Adobe still owns all my and my client's PDF software rights, and could shut them off at any time. Avid MC used to be the solid, reliable, backwards-compatible media editing & storage option. -See the previously mentioned company about that now. (Isn't there already a book out there called "Future Shock"? - I really should read it) Salespeople can never be trusted to tell us the truth. -Oh, wait, -are you working sales for that new startup now... Oops, sorry about that. I can open my client's original Apple Mac Word .doc file on almost any device and still figure it out. The original licensed Word for Mac will not work on any modern computer normally. -And this could go on & on... We all wish everything could stay the same, unless of course we don't like it. -Pick your battles, when you can, I am told. -Seems wise to me. -Well, at least until AI starts turning off the heated seats and driving me where I don't want to go, anyway. I wonder, -will AI let us unsubscribe even? Be happy when you have a choice. I think Cakewalk here seems to be continuing in that general direction, and that works for me. Today. Edited June 7, 2023 by JnTuneTech Sppp...pelling! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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