Introducing Cakewalk Next and our new brand identity

[sjoens]

6 hours ago, IgoRr said:

So far, there is not even a rough interface for the new Sonar anywhere, but I am almost completely sure that for editing/creating custom skins, a new Theme Editor will be offered, as it is now for Cakewalk, or the current version will work for the new Sonar.

It sounds like it won't look much different but will be vector based instead of image based. So doubtful there will be much interchange but there will be a new easier to use theme editor.  There's screenshots on the new site.

[Salvatore Sorice]

Hopefully the 'upgrade' will play nice with all our 3rd party plugins/instruments. I'd hate to have to reinstall/reauthorize tons of stuff.

[Noel Borthwick]

Theme editor is highly bitmap based so it won't work as is. There are no longer images to replace. 
The advantage is color changes are now much simpler with vectors.

[Noel Borthwick]

Just now, Sal Sorice said:

Hopefully the 'upgrade' will play nice with all our 3rd party plugins/instruments. I'd hate to have to reinstall/reauthorize tons of stuff.

Zero changes to compatibility or program function. It will install side by side to Cbb and load all your plugins without needing to even rescan.

[Salvatore Sorice]

1 minute ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Zero changes to compatibility or program function. It will install side by side to Cbb and load all your plugins without needing to even rescan.

That's good to hear. Thanks Noel!

[sjoens]

1 minute ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Theme editor is highly bitmap based so it won't work as is. There are no longer images to replace. 
The advantage is color changes are now much simpler with vectors.

Nice. Does this mean things like Control Bar Modules and Console View elements won't be able to be "refaced" in any way... like making a flat surface shaded or more 3D? 

[dubdisciple]

1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

What bothers you most about subscription? It's essentially a pay as you go lease model and is beneficial for those who can't justify putting down a lumpsum of cash at one time...
 

When phrased that way it doesn't sound so bad, but that highly depends on the model. I think Sonar's old model was better than most in that it allowed you to keep what you had paid for. Most don't.  Also, your response in some ways answers the question in part. Just like leasing something like a car is not for everyone, leasing benefits certain types of customers.  Leasing is awesome for a person who needs to be in the newest version at all times but not so much for the guy who is cool with the car that is paid off and runs well.  Although it's true we never truly own software, the standard model at least gives the perception of ownership 

Another thing that is "bad" for some people about subscription models is the forced upgrade vs stability.  The pricing is often compared with the assumption that people upgrade annually. Some people skip multiple upgrades if their current system is stable and the upgrades are heavily loaded with features they don't use. Sometimes the same individual can fit on both sides of that equation at different points.  When I was regularly doing video production, motion graphics and photography, the adobe subscription wasn't too bad and it paid for itself. When I found myself doing less video work, it was just a costly bill that was not worth it. Davinci Resolve was a much better deal for me and for some is a better product with the exception of Photoshop.  In any case, I have saved hundreds ditching Adobe.  My fear is the lack of choice for subscription model. For me that is a definite dealbreaker.

[IgoRr]

11 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

The advantage is color changes are now much simpler with vectors.

For me personally, it will be enough to be able to make the background in the piano roll light (not negative, as it is now), and so that the current theme "Tungsten" remains.

[Keni]

5 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

I wonder what OS will be supported?

My studio computer will not upgrade to WIN11 so I'm stuck on 10

Their Specs Claim Windows 10 and up

[Noel Borthwick]

15 minutes ago, sjoens said:

Nice. Does this mean things like Control Bar Modules and Console View elements won't be able to be "refaced" in any way... like making a flat surface shaded or more 3D? 

Yes, you do give up some abilities with removal of bitmaps. But the benefits greatly outweigh this IMHO.

[Keni]

1 hour ago, Misha said:

Bruno, 

I agree, requirements are pretty steep for "average" machine.

A good and noble reason to maintain current CbB version available is... It is almost certain, many folks from less fortunate countries already adopted to it in the past several years, and since there are no compatibility issues with Win11, it should last for years "as is" with very minimal maintenance.  

 

P.S. Very curious if new versions will have classic "mercury" skin

 

 

 

 

 

ProTools and Logic are the same

[Milton Sica]

3 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Yes, you do give up some abilities with removal of bitmaps. But the benefits greatly outweigh this IMHO.

Is it possible to participate in the Beta version of this wonder?

[Keni]

30 minutes ago, sjoens said:

It sounds like it won't look much different but will be vector based instead of image based. So doubtful there will be much interchange but there will be a new easier to use theme editor.  There's screenshots on the new site.

Toolbar arrangement aside. It looks like the Cakewalk we all know and love!

[Cecelius2]

29 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

>>"Annual" means no expiry / no deactivation after one year,   just no further free updates after the year, right?

Exactly. We were one of the few companies offering this model even in the SONAR days. How it works is you either pay for 12 consecutive monthly subs OR you purchase a one year subscription upfront. In both scenarios the last months version is permanently unlocked for you and you own it.  This is essentially no different than buying an annual version of the software outright. Many people who dislike subscription are unaware that we always did this.

Also, an advantage of monthly subscription was that once you crossed the 12 month boundary you could continue consecutive monthly subs for however long as you want and you would always own the last version you paid for.

All subs are not bad and are actually better for some people who prefer paying in smaller increments. So definitely read the fine print.

Disclaimer: To be clear I'm not saying that this is going to be our model. We're still very much working out the details here. I was quoting how it was done in the SONAR days and saying not all subscription schemes are the same. 

 

This is very reassuring.  Thanks for this post.

FYI-- I am a LOYAL Cakewalk/Sonar/CnB user since 1994 (Cakewalk DOS days).  I am glad to see there is a future for the Sonar DAW.  I always upgraded/updated every year.  Glad to see that the we can "always own the last version you paid for".  Good news!

I hope that there will also be some upgrade/update path discount like there was with Sonar over the years.  As I remember we would get "Sales" opportunities to purchase the annual update at discount.  I remember getting those special offers to purchase the next version at a discount for those who already owned the previous version.  I looked forward to those deals, as I still do for Cubase, Studio One and Mixbus.  Most DAWs still offer update discounts every year or every other year to update/upgrade so you don't have to buy the product anew all over.  I hope this also will be an option for us with forthcoming Sonar DAW .

Sonar/Cakewalk/CnB has always been my "go to" DAW.  While Ii own and use Cubase Pro 12, Studio One and Mixbus , the Cakewalk brand has always been my first choice in DAWS.

Thanks for securing the future of a great program!  I look forward to learning more about the annual pricing (options) .

Cecelius2

[Magic Russ]

4 hours ago, Jesse Jost said:

 

As someone who worked very closely on Project 5... I can say that much of the philosophy that went into the design of Project 5 has guided the development of Next. ? 

That may be one of the more interesting things I have heard today.

I see that Next offers tagged browsing of plugins.  Is this something coming to Sonar as well?

Will Sonar import files from Next?

[Jesse Jost]

Just a note about "the new Sonar"... Sonar will provide exactly the same control layout, menus, commands and workflow as CbB has today. However, the UI will be dramatically improved: clearer text, scalable views, support for high DPI resolutions and multi monitor configurations.

The net experience for most should be massively improved over CbB. As we move from bitmaps to scalable vector images and dynamically colored backgrounds, the notion of customizing the UI becomes infinitely simpler, while the current notion of heavy handed theming quickly becomes irrelevant.

[Light Grenade]

38 minutes ago, sjoens said:

It sounds like it won't look much different but will be vector based instead of image based. So doubtful there will be much interchange but there will be a new easier to use theme editor.  There's screenshots on the new site.

For some reason I assumed these screenshots were of CbB and were just place holders. 

"exciting, new visual identity" implied to me that the UI overhaul would be more substantial.

Really happy about the vector upgrade though. CbB really doesn't look great on a 4K display laptop.

[Milton Sica]

2 minutes ago, Jesse Jost said:

Just a note about "the new Sonar"... Sonar will provide exactly the same control layout, menus, commands and workflow as CbB has today. However, the UI will be dramatically improved: clearer text, scalable views, support for high DPI resolutions and multi monitor configurations.

The net experience for most should be massively improved over CbB. As we move from bitmaps to scalable vector images and dynamically colored backgrounds, the notion of customizing the UI becomes infinitely simpler, while the current notion of heavy handed theming quickly becomes irrelevant.

In the paid version, some kind of discounts will be offered to users who, like me, have actively participated in the improvement, enhancements and corrections in the EA versions ????

It is a marketing and relationship suggestion that I bring.

[IgoRr]

6 minutes ago, Jesse Jost said:

However, the UI will be dramatically improved: clearer text, scalable views, support for high DPI resolutions and multi monitor configurations.

It would not be superfluous to have the option of scaling the text size in different places of the interface, I don’t know how difficult it is to implement, but I’m sure that 99.99% of users would be most grateful for this option!

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

Awwwww man.  I will no longer be able to laugh at my fellow TV composers they tell me how much they spent on their DAWs whilst mine is free. 

Mind you most of them have crazily overpriced Apple Macs so I can still laugh at that.

5yrs of CBB has been a good run. It was always going to end, I'm just happy that we have the return of Sonar - I hope the industry starts taking it seriously again as a major platform as we've seen our favourite DAW somewhat shunned, no longer mentioned by other manufacturers ( I have an Oxygen Pro keyboard here with a preset for seemingly every DAW under the sun except CBB ) and no longer appearing in Sound On Sound  alongside the other DAW columns etc.

Whislt I'm not interested in a streamlined DAW that looks to be what Next is  I'm happy to pay for a new Sonar by subscription at the right price, it makes me laugh when people say they want to "own" it because you never do  - it's just licence.

 Very much look forward to Cakewalk Sonar and if @Noel Borthwick is looking for beta testers for it then sign me up.