External Sound Card?

[Robert Hale]

https://www.amazon.com/PHOINIKAS-External-Headphone-Microphone-Desktops/dp/B07FP8PG9N

It's only $26.  Would this help me set up for recording?

[Byron Dickens]

No.

[mettelus]

A dedicated audio interface is what is required. Most of the budget models are going to run around $100, and it is not a piece of gear you want to avoid getting if you are intent on getting external audio into a computer. If just recording yourself, the Focusrite Scarlett Solo would be a good option (1 microphone input/1 instrument input). There are other options in that price range, but Focusrite tends to have fewer issues noted with them overall.

[Byron Dickens]

Don't you already have an interface?

[Starship Krupa]

Add the price of a second trip to Burger King and get something from a reputable company. Providing that this is a hobby you're willing to invest $50 in:

https://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-M-Track-Solo-Interface-Podcasting/dp/B08Q1NJSBQ

[Robert Hale]

thanks for the responses.

I do have the Behringer UM2,  but having trouble connecting it, and  got curious about this ad.

Thanks.

[mettelus]

Since you have that unit already, I would recommend searching specifically for questions related to issues you are having. I am not familiar with that unit, so not sure if it has dedicated ASIO drivers that come with it (this is sometimes the most critical).

As far as setting things up inside CbB, SWA did a very nice series of videos on SONAR X2 years ago. A lot of that is still applicable and the first three videos cover audio/MIDI setups (the chapter listing for that video set is here - SWA posted 50 videos on YT without an index!).

[John Vere]

It doesn't have ASIO drivers, it's basically 1/2 step up from using On board audio.  and I've mentioned this in at least 3 other threads. The above mentioned M track solo apparently does not have an ASIO driver either so another pointless purchase. 

Looking on Sweetwater It seems the ASIO drivers will start with models at around $100. The Focusrite Solo and the Tascam 1x2HR would be my first choices knowing the quality of those products and drivers.  They are on sale right now. 

Can you not return the useless interface in exchange? we are talking about $20-$40 difference to get you running smoothly, you've been bashing your head against the wall for a long time now. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by John Vere

[John Vere]

Just now, Lord Tim said:

Agree, but it's still MUCH better than a $26 "interface" or using a guitar multi-fx pedal, at least.

With WASAPI he should get acceptable performance out of this, least for playback with a safe buffer size, and maybe even decent latency with WASAPI Exclusive, but I'd start with the safer option I mentioned earlier first, just to get up and running.

No, you cannot overdub audio with non ASIO drivers. WASAPI is great for people who only use VST instruments and loops. It sucks for recording audio. It will be out of sync. 

[mettelus]

Thanks for the confirmation on the M2. I thought that unit was in the "ASIO4ALL" bucket but wasn't sure.

Back to the OP, I am pretty sure there are a fair number of forum members who have learned the hard way (including myself) that skimping on an audio interface is only going to buy you a fair amount of pain and suffering for no reason. If you want to get audio into a computer and use a DAW to its potential, an adequate audio interface is a must. It is not like we are trying to sell you something you do not need, but rather offering lessons learned on what not to do. DAWs, instruments, FX, and the like can easily fall into the bucket of personal preference, but a good audio interface is a universal piece of gear that is required to get audio into the DAW.

There are many companies with liberal return policies, and one of those is highly recommended to test "unknown" gear. Once you get one that will let you see the night vs day difference in what you are trying to do, you will end up kicking yourself for the time wasted getting there.

[DeeringAmps]

1 hour ago, Lord Tim said:

Focusrite Scarlett Solo

On sale right now at Sweetwater, free shipping, 30 day return policy.
Pretty much a no-brainer...

t

[whoisp]

There is lots of misinformation about Behringer with specific models 

Please note: The Only Behringer devices that work with Behringer own dedicated ASIO for win 10 and 11 is UMC202 204 404 and 1820 and the HD Models. 

You have to download the UMC interface software panel ASIO 5.51.0 update. These are the latest drivers with  no issues , no other driver is not supported. I have a friend that uses the 204 which i know works and i use the 1820.  It is setup in 3 parts, the ASIO Driver the WDM (WASAOPI) driver and the MIDI driver. However the MIDI driver does not work on the UMC 202 or the UMC 202 HD 

This is the only dedicated driver from Behringer that works with cakewalk stable that i am aware of. 

[mettelus]

I checked quick on that UM2 unit just to be sure. Sweetwater has a  comment on setup "Although most Behringer audio interfaces have their own driver (version 4.38 as of July 2018), some of the smaller interfaces will require the third-party driver, ASIO4All. These interfaces include the UMC22, UM2, UCA222, and UCA202," so it is an ASIO4ALL unit. I also didn't realize that was a 16-bit/48KHz unit, so if possible to return that, it would be something for the OP to consider. ASIO4ALL is really a WDM wrapper and tends to be problematic, but in certain cases is usable (I have used it for playback of stand-alone instruments that require ASIO through the PC sound card). There have been so many posters over the years seeking help on getting ASIO4ALL to work properly for recording.

Side comment: I very much appreciate the feedback forum members over the years! When delving into unknown territory that has been a tremendous help, so thank you for taking the time to advise. The "trick" is asking before making big leaps.

[whoisp]

13 minutes ago, mettelus said:

Side comment: I very much appreciate the feedback forum members over the years! When delving into unknown territory that has been a tremendous help, so thank you for taking the time to advise. The "trick" is asking before making big leaps.

We live and learn, audio interfaces are a minefield when you consider that you need ASIO, MIDI, phantom 48V  (MIC) and working at 48Khz on 24bit as standard really, maybe with 2 headphone monitoring if you collaborate or record anyone.    

I needed mix monitoring for tracking with 2 headphone monitoring and SPDIF the min. I really want 8 in/out which really did limit my options when you talking about price given at the time the cheapest  8 port i think was Scarllet at £700 UK pounds compared to the Behringer i got for £250 in sale with a 30 day return and its been solid for yrs 

[John Vere]

@Lord Tim    Yes Word clock sync is important but I guess I should have been more clear. I was refering to overdubbed audio tracks being out of sync not word clock.

Below is a screens shot of a Loopback test I did a few years ago. It was a long thread in the old Cakewalk forum and many of us tested our audio interfaces. We used ASIO and then any of the other modes that were available. A lot of us had more than one audio interface. The unscientific conclusion was the same for most everyone. ASIO was always within a few samples of being perfectly in sync. Notice the Blue track. 

All other Modes drifted and were usually late by very noticeable amounts. Those amounts varied from Interface to interface. The unscientific reason for that is those driver modes do not report latency to Cakewalk correctly. Cakewalk has to guess. Take note that the drift amount did not change with Buffer settings. 

This particular one is a Card Deluxe PCI interface ( still working)  performed the least favorable under WDM mode. ( the Green track)  Take note that a few people tested asio4all and it  seemed to always match WDM mode, which makes perfect sense.  Asio4all is really WDM mode.  

WASAPI mode ( Purple track)  most certainly tried hard to be acceptable.  This was WASAPI shared mode as the interfaces I tried do not support  WASAPI Exclusive Mode. WASAPI exclusive only seems to work with On Board audio.

That's why it's a total waist of money to purchase an audio interface that doesn't use ASIO. You might have even worse performance than using a Realtek card. All you are getting is a overpriced audio adaptor box. I can probably get better results using a small mixer, the 1/8" green jack and WASAPI Exclusive driver Mode. 

 

 

For those who are curious here's how you perform a loopback test. 

Using a short patch cable take an output and patch it back to an input. Like the project shown insert SI drums and a few midi kick or snare hits. Freeze it to create the audio track. 

Now create a few audio tracks and select the input correctly. DO NOT TURN ON INPUT ECHO. and record the loopback. Now if you what to you can switch to different modes like I did here. Change the time ruler to Samples or Milliseconds and zoom way in. You can use Aim Assist too. 

This is a way to calculate offset if you do not have an ASIO interface. You can then apply the amount it was out in sync and caching in the offset box. 

While you have the Loopback connected download and run this RTL Utility app which will test your Audio interfaces accuracy for reported latency.  It's lot's of fun. You can quickly try different settings and see what's up. 

https://oblique-audio.com/rtl-utility.php  

[Starship Krupa]

On 5/14/2023 at 7:45 AM, John Vere said:

The above mentioned M track solo apparently does not have an ASIO driver either so another pointless purchase. 

Where did you get that information from, John? I found a couple of reviews that specifically praise the M-Track Solo for having an ASIO driver: https://higherhz.com/m-audio-m-track-solo-review/ and https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/m-audio-m-track-solo-duo

I was surprised to find it, because like so many of us, my "price of admission" level was stuck around $100 for reputable interfaces. But they somehow managed to get the cost down a rung, and if the reviews are to be believed, the main sacrifice was in using a plastic case rather than a metal one.

[John Vere]

9 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Where did you get that information from, John? I found a couple of reviews that specifically praise the M-Track Solo for having an ASIO 

I had gone to the download page and it wasn’t listed. But further digging you are correct and I had neglected to push a hidden button to refresh the page after scrolling through 40 listings of Mac OS options. 
 

The fact that is only 16 bit is certainly a down side.  That points towards inferior quality converters. But it does win the award for lowest cost ASIO audio interface and generally M Audio is dependable stuff

Edited May 16, 2023 by John Vere

[John Vere]

14 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

One of the most important parts of a DAW is a decent audio interface with good drivers. You could be plugged into a Borg Cube with a crap interface and still get pops and clicks (and likely assimilated - be warned!)

This. I say in my video I produced ( I Think? ) that Cakewalk is a top end DAW that would cost you easily $500. So why not take the money you saved and invest it in a proper audio interface.  

I would say the people with the atomic powered computers are most likely Gamers. I know my son just built a gaming machine and it still cost over $2,000 and he's a smart shopper.  I really need a new machine myself, mine is 13 years old. I only have 12 GB RAM which has never been an issue but the rendering of  10 minute videos takes a good 1/2 hour. I'm going to put gig money in a piggy bank and see what I can do next fall. 

( I think we lost the OP! ) 

[Starship Krupa]

5 hours ago, John Vere said:

The fact that is only 16 bit is certainly a down side.  That points towards inferior quality converters.

It's a podcaster tool, for sure.

But since the OP has opened 3 different topics about whether this or that piece of cheap crap will help him make better recordings, I figured I'd check to see what the first rung out of the cheap crap pit costs these days. Pleasant surprise.

I don't buy any gear new if I can avoid it, so my recommendation would be a used Scarlett or Audiobox. I prefer Presonus because they haven't abandoned 5-pin MIDI. Behringer kind of screw themselves with the lower end of the line having similar units that do or do not have decent drivers, so I stay away from those in recommendations.

[John Vere]

I just found the script for the video I made a few years ago. I don't think it's out of date yet. 

 

Shopping for an Audio Interface?

There is a lot of choices.

But before you start looking   Make a list of your requirements first.   Example you might determine you need a 4x4 interface. That just narrowed down the search by a lot!  You might only find 12 models and a few of those might be way out of your budget. Now compare those to get the most features needed. Don’t cheap out. Get what you need now because it’s false economy to short change yourself on features. You’ll end up spending more money down the line to make up for it.

 Example,  only 1 headphone output and you all of a sudden need 2. Now it will cost you another $100 or more to buy a multi channel headphone amp.

What kind of connectivity do you require? and how many of each. This is the most important determining factor. Most of us only need a few in/outs. It’s nice to not have to unplug and plug stuff in.

 If you already own a mixing board you can most certainly get by with less.  

These are some of the connectivity options:

XLR for mikes & 1/4" for instruments or better yet Combi jacks which are both. 

Then other options are  RCA, ¼” line level, ¼” Instrument level ,MIDI, SPDIF, ADAT, MADI

Especially MIDI jacks if you use vintage synths, drum machines or pianos.

How many ins and outs do you think you'll need now and in the future?

Are they accessible or are some on the rear panel?

Are the ¼” jacks Balanced?   

RCA jacks are handy if you have a DJ mixer or any consumer audio gear. 

And sometimes there are RCA  in Parallel with main outputs. 

Just make sure the outputs have connectivity that matches your studio monitors.

Is there a true stereo input pair? Some don’t have matching inputs which sucks for recording stereo devices like guitar pedal boards,  Hardware piano’s, synth and drum machines.

Are there channel Insert jacks for using hardware compressors. 

What type of connection to your commuter does it use. USB 2 is all you need for up to 32 channels of audio streaming. But USB 3 is now the most common.

Here is some of the other front and rear panel features to look for

Are there peak level meters or just a little LEDs for each input? Do all inputs have a peak indicator?

Are there separate controls for Monitor level and headphone level? This is a pain when they combine these two.

Is there a blend control for mixing Input Source with Computer or DAW playback.  A lot of cheaper interfaces are missing this important feature and only have an on/off toggle. This makes it difficult to adjust what you’re hearing in your headphones and you have to muck about in your DAW to fix this. I think this control is a overlooked important feature.  

How many Headphone jacks? A level for each? This is also important if you work with other musicians.

And as I said it is cheaper to have it built in that having to go buy the additional hardware.

Are the input pads or line / Instrument toggle switches on the front, back or software controlled? Having them hidden is a bit of a pain because you might even forget they exist.

Is it a metal box or cheap plastic? Is it light and portable or large and bulky, Rack mountable? If you’re going to take it with you make sure it is road worthy.

Does it have an on / off switch? Many don’t. I use this a lot because I might change from on board audio to my interface. Much easier to turn off a switch than unplug it.  

Does it use Buss power or a power supply?  Look for at least an optional power supply. 

Buss power can have issues with noise and Phantom power and some need a dedicated USB 3 buss.

I had to purchase a special PCIe card just to power my Motu m4 and that cost me 40 bucks.

Does it have DSP effects built in? This is great for adding reverb to you headphone mix without actually recording it. And there might be a compressor and special guitar effects you do want to record. Once again it’s saves you money if you will need these things.

Does it use a Software  GUI mixer? Having a software mixer adds more monitoring options. My Focusrite 6i6 has a mixer and I can use it to create 6 different headphone Que mixes.  

Does it have a Loop back function. This is a newer feature that is real important if you do live streaming,  screen captures, Zoom or stand alone VST recording. It will also record off the internet say from you tube or sites that won’t let you download. Ahrr Captain there’s Pirates a float.  

Do you need low  Round Trip Latency for real time processing like Guitar Sims?  

Most average priced interfaces like Tascam, Steinberg, Pro Sonis,  Scarlett’s and my Motu have around 10 ms of RTL at a working Buffer of 256. You might get this lower if you have a very fast computer but most of us will have around this amount of delay. This delay is very annoying to most of us so be warned.

Low RTL is going to be at a higher price point. Probably over $500  like RME stuff. There is almost no information or specs supplied buy most manufacturers. They will tell you up to 5ms of RTL but they are not getting that at a buffer setting that is actually usable on most systems. You’ll suffer drop out and stuttering.

Zero Latency monitoring is not the same as round trip latency All interfaces have latency. The A/D converter adds almost 1ms of latency for starters, your USB system, computer processing the D/A converter and so on. But this doesn’t matter when you use direct monitoring. You’ll hear everything in perfect sync.

Zero latency is only referring to monitoring directly from the interface.

And most important of all, Does it have top notch ASIO drivers for your OS.  Don’t buy any interface that say’s “class compliant driver”  That will work for a Mac, but not very well with a PC.

What is the word on support from the company? Visit the web site and try creating an Account before you purchase. Pretend you just bought the device.  

See if the drivers and manuals are easy to get at and kept up to date. Are they a  PC or Mac oriented company.

And this one I think is also overlooked--

Does it come with free software, Example Focusrite interfaces seem to come with a lot of good actually usable stuff.  There could be over $200 in value here so make sure you check this out. Most companies only give you some lame version of a DAW that you are probably not interested in because you already have a great free DAW with Cakewalk.  

Everyone will recommend the interface they have chosen, that doesn't mean it is the right one for you. But recommendations are also part of the research needed to make the right decisions.

Make your list starting with the input /output specs. Check for pricing on sites like Sweetwater or Musicians Friend. The reviews are a very good resource but take the negatives with a grain of salt. There’s a lot of idiots who have no clue as what they are doing and they vent by writing a negative review.  

The audio interface is the heart of a digital studio. It is the centerpiece and spending money on this is more important than your actual computer. So have fun shopping.