PEN TOOL TO DRAW TRANSIENT LINE

[Herbert Zio]

Is there any way to use the pen tool to repair corrupted transient lines of some audio in Cakewalk, like in Pro Tools?

Watch the video below!

 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Herbert Zio

[Bill Phillips]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

But Melodyne has really become the tool for me now. You can not only fix pitch but timing, glitches and even levels are easy to fix. They thought of everything. 

And the comment about having to go to the menu. Custom keyboard shortcuts are your friends. Example Gain = G.  
Open Melodyne as regional effect = Z.  Render Regional Effect = X. 

I think I understand that you're saying Melodyne is the best at producing the results that were historically achieved using wave editors. 

But Melodyne is not, AFAIK, a wave editor. I believe that Melodyne translates wave files to blobs connected by lines that are a metaphor representing the audio.

In Melodyne you are editing audio,  not the wave file. When you're done and bounce the clip, Melodyne translates the final blob sequence into a new wave file, not an edited one. 

[Milton Sica]

12 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

Unless it's changed very recently, Audacity is unsuitable for the CbB Utilities menu because it doesn't save to the original filename.  I guess you can get around it by doing a "Save As", but the given that there could be many .wav files in the project's audio directory there's a danger you could pick the wrong one.

Personally, I use SoundForge for the most part, but I don't have licenses for all the machines I've got CbB installed on, so Acoustica 6 BE is a good alternative for the very rare cases I need it.

I noticed that with each Acoustica call through the Utilities Menu, Cakewalk makes a call to the program, that is: it always opens it as if it were the first time.

If I have to work with "n" clips in Acoustica I realized that, apart from my lack of knowledge on how to do it, it will be open in "n" instances of the application itself.

The question is: Is there a way to:
1) Open a clip in an instance of Acoustica.
2) Make edits to the wav.
3) Update the edited clip in Cakewalk.
4) Close wav editing.
5) Keep Acoustica running
6) Edit another wav in the same Acoustica instance opened first, without having to open another instance each time you edit it?

[John Vere]

When I use Wave lab as the tool copy it opens , I edit the file and close it and it asks you to save changes, I save and the file closes leaving wave lab open and empty. When I return focus to Cakewalk it will tell me the audio file has changed and do I wish to update, yes. If I open a second tool copy it will return me to wave lab which is of course still running 

 

[Milton Sica]

10 minutes ago, John Vere said:

When I use Wave lab as the tool copy it opens , I edit the file and close it and it asks you to save changes, I save and the file closes leaving wave lab open and empty. When I return focus to Cakewalk it will tell me the audio file has changed and do I wish to update, yes. If I open a second tool copy it will return me to wave lab which is of course still running 

 

Thank you very much for the information, but unfortunately this does not happen with Acoustica.

See that I did the procedures that you perform in your editing program 3 times. As you can see, I have 3 instances of Acoustica running.

 

[John Vere]

As I said, I found that was probably the lowest quality wave editor I had ever used. It's the only one I didn't keep on my system. Wave Lab had paid for it self over and over. I'm way behind on updates and only using Version 5. It's now version 11.  As Cakewalks features have improved along with my skills of using it,  I find Wave lab is not used as much anymore.  I still use it for mastering the final exports. It also has the proper tools for CD tagging and sequencing.  Another lost art.   

The below are links to the ones I use and all of them are free to try.  I actually don't ever use Audacity but it's a powerful little audio app for absolutely free. I mostly use Wave Lab as like Cakewalk I've used it since 2004 so it's familiar. 

https://www.steinberg.net/wavelab/

https://www.magix.com/ca/music-editing/free-download/sound-forge-pro/  

http://www.goldwave.ca/

https://www.audacityteam.org/

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by John Vere

[John Vere]

3 hours ago, Bill Phillips said:

n Melodyne you are editing audio,  not the wave file. When you're done and bounce the clip, Melodyne translates the final blob sequence into a new wave file, not an edited one. 

Actually when you render a Melodyne edited clip the original clip is permanently changed this is what we call destructive editing,  A wave editor is also a destructive.   Melodyne is just a wave editor with a different user interface. Plus the pitch editing is more intuitive. 

Using Volume envelopes, the clip gain or split,  slip editing, fade tool etc.  methods are non destructive editing. The original audio is still in the folder unscathed. Before you perform any destructive editing it is recommended you have a safe back up of the original. 

[Bill Phillips]

53 minutes ago, John Vere said:

Actually when you render a Melodyne edited clip the original clip is permanently changed

I haven't used either wave editors or Melodyne very much. I'm just trying to understand. I have considered them (wave editors and Melodyne) to be two different things ( one where you cut/paste/fade/drag/re-draw existing wave files and the other where you are editing audio [not waveforms] and then rendering a new wave file).

Which leads to the question: Is the wave file permanently changed or replaced? It appears to me that Melodyne uses an algorithm to create the replacement clip. Whereas, a clip editor returns the original clip as edited by you as long as no pitch or tempo stretching were applied. pitch changes and tempo stretching would produce a replacement clip.

[msmcleod]

10 hours ago, Bill Phillips said:

I haven't used either wave editors or Melodyne very much. I'm just trying to understand. I have considered them (wave editors and Melodyne) to be two different things ( one where you cut/paste/fade/drag/re-draw existing wave files and the other where you are editing audio [not waveforms] and then rendering a new wave file).

Which leads to the question: Is the wave file permanently changed or replaced? It appears to me that Melodyne uses an algorithm to create the replacement clip. Whereas, a clip editor returns the original clip as edited by you as long as no pitch or tempo stretching were applied. pitch changes and tempo stretching would produce a replacement clip.

When using a wave editor, the wave file is permanently changed.  This is how the whole mechanism works - i.e. when you launch the external tool, you're giving control to the wave editor to edit the file directly.  When you save, Cakewalk recognises that the file has changed and updates the clip accordingly.

To be honest, I very rarely use this workflow - it's only ever as a last resort when I actually need to edit the waveform in detail.   For scenarios like the OP's one, I'd probably re-record, but if this is not possible, then a wave editor is probably the next best thing.  Yes, you can split the clip and mess around with clip gain and fades to hide it, but smoothing waveforms out by hand can be quicker for one-off clipping issues.

FWIW I've compared editing mistakes to just re-recording over the years, and in most cases I could record another 10 or so takes in the time it took to edit the mistake.  And of course I'm improving my playing at the same time.

[Andres Medina]

5 hours ago, msmcleod said:

smoothing waveforms out by hand can be quicker for one-off clipping issues.

The editing capabilities of Acoustica 6 include this tool? I didn't find a tool in the menus, except the draw freehand volume...

[Bill Phillips]

12 hours ago, msmcleod said:

When using a wave editor, the wave file is permanently changed.  This is how the whole mechanism works - i.e. when you launch the external tool, you're giving control to the wave editor to edit the file directly.  When you save, Cakewalk recognises that the file has changed and updates the clip accordingly.

To be honest, I very rarely use this workflow - it's only ever as a last resort when I actually need to edit the waveform in detail.   For scenarios like the OP's one, I'd probably re-record, but if this is not possible, then a wave editor is probably the next best thing.  Yes, you can split the clip and mess around with clip gain and fades to hide it, but smoothing waveforms out by hand can be quicker for one-off clipping issues.

FWIW I've compared editing mistakes to just re-recording over the years, and in most cases I could record another 10 or so takes in the time it took to edit the mistake.  And of course I'm improving my playing at the same time.

@msmcleod thank you for explaining. I'm not saying that wave editors don't change the wave files and that the rendered clip will reflect those changes, AFAIK, in the same way that Cakewalk does. When you are using a wave editor what you are editing is the wave file. But Melodyne, as far as I can tell, is different. It's not a wave editor. Melodyne uses an algorithm to convert the wave file into the blobs and lines you see and edit in the Melodyne editor. It's the blobs and lines, not the wave file, that you are editing. When you're done in Melodyne, the blobs and lines are processed by an algorithm to create the rendered wave file. So, I don't think that Melodyne is a wave editor even though it's used instead to a wave editor to do the same job probably easier and better as @John Vere said.

[John Vere]

49 minutes ago, Bill Phillips said:

Melodyne uses an algorithm to convert the wave file into the blobs and lines you see and edit in the Melodyne editor. It's the blobs and lines, not the wave file, that you are editing. When you're done in Melodyne, the blobs and lines are processed by an algorithm to create the rendered wave file

It's isn't really called a wave editor as that's a title reserved for programs that are dedicated to that task.  But in the end it is a wave editor because it takes audio and has editing capabilities that manipulate the digital data exactly like a wave editor does.

It is really just a different Graphic image of a wave file. So when you say it is not the wave file you are editing this is incorrect.  The graphic design is to optimize and allow for pitch correction. Each little blob is actually  a tiny representation of a mono wave form if you zoom in.  And Melodyn as I said just like a wave editor is destructive and permanently alters the audio file once you are done and render it. Only a fool would leave Melodyne clips active in a project. That is asking for all sorts of trouble.  

The only thing a person needs to understand is that there is destructive and non destructive editing of audio.  Destructive editing can often lead to unwanted audio artifacts so one need to always have a back up and be careful as they work. You are scrambling ones and zeros. 

Non destructive editing does not create audio artifacts because you are keeping your original unaltered data and all you are doing is give the software commands to alter parameters such as volume or mute which are not invasive to the original audio. 

Taking a track and Normalizing it or applying Gain are other examples  of destructive editing that are easily avoided by other means such as simply using the tracks gain control which is non destructive. Adding Gain  using processing permanently alters the original file and scrambles the ones and zeros. its rare but there is always a danger of adding unwanted artifacts to any audio that was scrambled. 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by John Vere

[Bill Phillips]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

It's isn't really called a wave editor as that's a title reserved for programs that are dedicated to that task. 

I agree ?

As for the rest, I think, we're both looking at the same Elephant from different ends and describing what we see. And what we see is different, but it's still an Elephant. ?

[Herbert Zio]

I wasn't able to edit the Wave in Melodyne like I did in Cubase in the video below. I'm trying to see in Acoustica 6 Basic Editon how I can be making this Wave drawing to cover the audio holes, if anyone knows how to tell me the process in Acoustica 6.

Drawing Wave in Cubase Pro 12

[John Vere]

1 hour ago, Herbert Zio said:

I wasn't able to edit the Wave in Melodyne like I did in Cubase in the video below. I'm trying to see in Acoustica 6 Basic Editon how I can be making this Wave drawing to cover the audio holes, if anyone knows how to tell me the process in Acoustica 6.

No as I said it's a different Interface and the tools are different. And it depends on which version you own. The basic version doesn't do any where near as much as the full versions.  But just like a wave editor you can split, apply gain up or down. Add fade in and fade outs. and then you can adjust the timing and change the pitch. And with the version I have I can even remove or fix bad notes from a full guitar chord. You know, sloppy playing like you hit the low E when playing a D chord. This topic is about fixing random notes that went over and became possibly distorted.  You can most certainly do that in melodyne. 

Go to Celemony's web site and watch the tutorials you will quickly see what I'm going on about. It is a very powerful tool for anyone who has a desire to clean up sloppy singing or guitar playing. Or making a near perfect performance 100% perfect.   I used to believe in re doing parts until they were perfect. This is still the best approach when you are in your prime of life.  But realize that I'm not as good as I used to be so this is my electric wheel chair to help me on the final leg  of my long musical journey.

[JnTuneTech]

On 4/21/2023 at 12:47 PM, Bill Phillips said:

@msmcleod thank you for explaining. I'm not saying that wave editors don't change the wave files and that the rendered clip will reflect those changes, AFAIK, in the same way that Cakewalk does. When you are using a wave editor what you are editing is the wave file. But Melodyne, as far as I can tell, is different. It's not a wave editor. Melodyne uses an algorithm to convert the wave file into the blobs and lines you see and edit in the Melodyne editor. It's the blobs and lines, not the wave file, that you are editing. When you're done in Melodyne, the blobs and lines are processed by an algorithm to create the rendered wave file. So, I don't think that Melodyne is a wave editor even though it's used instead to a wave editor to do the same job probably easier and better as @John Vere said.

Hmm... To be, or not to be, a wave editor...  "I'd like to have an argument please."  ...   "I see. Do you want to have the full argument, or were you thinking of taking a course?"

[sjoens]

destructive wave editor:

... or is that a brick wall limiter?

Edited April 23, 2023 by sjoens

[Lord Tim]

16 hours ago, sjoens said:

destructive wave editor:

... or is that a brick wall limiter?

Ha, I sea what you did there!