Is there a way to insert time on all tracks without clips being split?

[pulsewalk]

I'm trying to insert time on all tracks, so everything beyond a certain point is moved 1 (or more) bars forward in time.

My problem with this is when I do this, all the clips are split exactly where I put the split line / play cursor. How can I do this so the clips won't split, so the clips that's crossing / are under the split line/play cursor remains untouched, and all the clips that begin AFTER the split line / play cursor, are moved according to the number of bars I set to insert time?

[pulsewalk]

I just remembered I could lock those clips that's on the line, even though this is quite time consuming. So the question still remains if there's a mode so this is done automatically according to my initial post above

[reginaldStjohn]

To lock the clips you should be able to lasso select all of them that you want and then lock them all at the same time. No need to do it one at a time. That is the only way I know of to add time the way you are doing it.

The other option is to just drag select all the clips that need to move and drag them back the number of measures you want.

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Arranging.16.html

Edited March 8, 2023 by reginaldStjohn

[pulsewalk]

2 hours ago, reginaldStjohn said:

To lock the clips you should be able to lasso select all of them that you want and then lock them all at the same time. No need to do it one at a time. That is the only way I know of to add time the way you are doing it.

The other option is to just drag select all the clips that need to move and drag them back the number of measures you want.

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Arranging.16.html

I was afraid there was no other solution

Thanks anyway!

[David Baay]

22 hours ago, pulsewalk said:

I'm trying to insert time on all tracks, so everything beyond a certain point is moved

The above seem to be in conflict with this:

22 hours ago, pulsewalk said:

How can I do this so the clips won't split, so the clips that's crossing / are under the split line/play cursor remains untouched

How are you expecting to move "everything" downstream of the insert point without affecting clips that cross the insert point?

There are many ways to selectively move content later, but not by Insert Time/Measures. This function is designed to insert an empty gap in all tracks.

 

 

[57Gregy]

I've been trying to imagine a scenario where this would need to be done.
The only thing I can come up with is if a track had an effects tail, such as echo delay or a pedal event that you want to extend into the new, inserted gap.
I would split that track beyond the end of any events, then drag its new end point to the left so it's not in the Insert zone, then Insert>Time/Measures the desired amount (I don't think it's in the "Insert" menu anymore?) then drag the end of the other track to where you want it to end.

Edited March 10, 2023 by 57Gregy
clarification. can't tell right from left.

[57Gregy]

22 hours ago, 57Gregy said:

Insert>Time/Measures the desired amount (I don't think it's in the "Insert" menu anymore

Right. In CbB, it's under Process. Was using SHS 6.

[AB99]

22 hours ago, 57Gregy said:

I've been trying to imagine a scenario where this would need to be done. ...
 

Here is an example that just happened to me:
I had a song recorded.  Then I realized I would like a slow introduction to it and then have it "kick in."
Well I had to insert measures at the begining for that slow introduction.

Cheers!

[Glenn Stanton]

Ripple Edit plus insert measures from the selected (or entered) time. ?

[Bristol_Jonesey]

2 hours ago, Alan Bachman said:

Here is an example that just happened to me:
I had a song recorded.  Then I realized I would like a slow introduction to it and then have it "kick in."
Well I had to insert measures at the begining for that slow introduction.

Cheers!

Yes ok, but that's not what the OP is wanting. He wants to basically split a project by inserting time/measures, but not split any clips

I can't fathom a) how this would work or b) what the point would be.

What would happen to any note that spans the split point? Does it end up to the left or right of the split?

Or does he not want that clip touched at all. 

Like I said, I'm struggling to understand what he wants

Edited March 10, 2023 by Bristol_Jonesey
spelling

[John Vere]

Seems simple to me. Turn on Ripple edit. Split the song and drag the right hand part 2 measures.

TURN OFF RIPPLE EDIT! Important. 

Now any audio notes that got chopped off at the split point on the left, you slip edit them to the right until they end. Same with midi notes in PVR.

Then go to the split point on the right and slip edit those little leftovers out of the new start point.  

Of course this would take less than 3 minutes on one of my 12 track songs, If your project has 100 tracks then you have my sympathy. 

There's always 10 ways to do the same thing in Cakewalk. 

[pulsewalk]

On 3/9/2023 at 12:50 AM, David Baay said:

The above seem to be in conflict with this:

How are you expecting to move "everything" downstream of the insert point without affecting clips that cross the insert point?

There are many ways to selectively move content later, but not by Insert Time/Measures. This function is designed to insert an empty gap in all tracks.

 

 

I'm expecting it to do so, by a function that recognizes that there are clips "crossing" the play cursor where the time is intended to be inserted, and simply ignore to split and move all these clips, but move everything else that is situated after this line but not "crossing" this line.

I don't mean that this would only be the way to do it, but as one of several choices.

Edited March 10, 2023 by pulsewalk

[pulsewalk]

On 3/9/2023 at 8:51 PM, 57Gregy said:

I've been trying to imagine a scenario where this would need to be done.
The only thing I can come up with is if a track had an effects tail, such as echo delay or a pedal event that you want to extend into the new, inserted gap.
I would split that track beyond the end of any events, then drag its new end point to the left so it's not in the Insert zone, then Insert>Time/Measures the desired amount (I don't think it's in the "Insert" menu anymore?) then drag the end of the other track to where you want it to end.

YES! It is exactly the correct scenario. It's a scenario where no other clips are crossing the play cursor where the time is intended to be inserted, but the tails of the effects, crashes, etc. that starts before the play cursor.

I don't want to do any manual movements as there are 197 tracks in the project already, and it will be more yet. Probably around 220 tracks or so. It's a huge project so I want to automate as much as possible. It is quite a heavy project I'm afraid.

However, I solved the problem by locking the clips that "crossed" the play cursor where the time was inserted, this way they remained as they were.

Edited March 10, 2023 by pulsewalk

[pulsewalk]

2 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

Yes ok, but that's not what the OP is wanting. He wants to basically split a project by inserting time/measures, but not split any clips

I can't fathom a) how this would work or b) what the point would be.

What would happen to any note that spans the split point? Does it end up to the left or right of the split?

Or does he not want that clip touched at all. 

Like I said, I'm struggling to understand what he wants

 

Alright, I'll try to elaborate.

So let's take my case as an example. At the end of the buildup, I feel there needs to be 4 more measures where I will add stuff. Directly after the buildup, comes the drop.

Most of the clips are beginning at the drop and not too many clips are crossing the line between buildup and drop. The ones that does, are tails from effects and such.

What I want is to insert 4 bars between the end of the buildup and the start of the drop. I want silence there (with the remaining tails from the mentioned effects), where I will be adding other stuff later.

So if I just chose to insert 4 bars there, this will split my clips that are crossing that line where the insert is added. I don't want this. I want them to be left as they are.

How this would work is actually quite "easy". I should not be that difficult for the software to identify that there are clips just under the line where the time is to be inserted, and when identifying these, just ignore them all together, and only move the rest.

[pulsewalk]

2 hours ago, John Vere said:

Seems simple to me. Turn on Ripple edit. Split the song and drag the right hand part 2 measures.

TURN OFF RIPPLE EDIT! Important. 

Now any audio notes that got chopped off at the split point on the left, you slip edit them to the right until they end. Same with midi notes in PVR.

Then go to the split point on the right and slip edit those little leftovers out of the new start point.  

Of course this would take less than 3 minutes on one of my 12 track songs, If your project has 100 tracks then you have my sympathy. 

There's always 10 ways to do the same thing in Cakewalk. 

The project got 197 tracks right now.

Also, I'm not sure how good it would be to split audio and then drag them back together. Would this not alter the waveform at the cut? I want them whole and untouched as they are.

This can be all done by locking the said clips, but it's more time consuming .

[Bristol_Jonesey]

12 hours ago, pulsewalk said:

 

Alright, I'll try to elaborate.

So let's take my case as an example. At the end of the buildup, I feel there needs to be 4 more measures where I will add stuff. Directly after the buildup, comes the drop.

Most of the clips are beginning at the drop and not too many clips are crossing the line between buildup and drop. The ones that does, are tails from effects and such.

What I want is to insert 4 bars between the end of the buildup and the start of the drop. I want silence there (with the remaining tails from the mentioned effects), where I will be adding other stuff later.

So if I just chose to insert 4 bars there, this will split my clips that are crossing that line where the insert is added. I don't want this. I want them to be left as they are.

How this would work is actually quite "easy". I should not be that difficult for the software to identify that there are clips just under the line where the time is to be inserted, and when identifying these, just ignore them all together, and only move the rest.

Thanks for explaining.

Try this - insert time/measures where you want the split. Yes, this will split all the clips

But you should be able to slip edit those clips that have tails out to the right so they don't get cut off

[Starship Krupa]

13 hours ago, pulsewalk said:

I'm not sure how good it would be to split audio and then drag them back together. Would this not alter the waveform at the cut? I want them whole and untouched as they are.

I'm impressed by your 197 tracks! That's about 175 more than my most complex project to date.

There's something very important (and reassuring) to understand:

Cakewalk (and most if not all other DAW's) is a non-destructive editor. What this means, in simplified form, is that it leaves any original recorded or imported audio tracks intact no matter how much you cut, split, copy, move, delete, fade, or whatever with your clips. Clips are just references to a section of the original audio files. When you hit Play or export the project as audio, the DAW assembles all of your edits in order, without changing anything. If you have a single measure of drums that you either copied and pasted 150 times or Groove Clipped it out for 150 measures, Cakewalk just plays it back over and over, 150 times.

The exception to this is that you can perform certain "destructive" operations that will alter underlying audio files. "Normalize" is one. "Bounce to Clip(s)" is another. "Reverse" is another. Most operations done from the "Process Effect" menu also bake them into the audio file. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe that even these don't actually alter the original file, but rather make a copy of it with the destructive processing applied. It's like "bounce clip with effect applied." Others, correct me if I have that wrong.

Non-destructive editors are pretty careful about adhering to the "non-destructive" term. It gives us a lot of freedom to go crazy with editing without concern for "messing something up." Video editing software like Vegas Pro and Adobe Premier also work this way: they leave your original video footage intact. Believe me that I've taken so many wrong turns with editing a project that it wound up being easier to go back and start with the recorded audio files than undo the mess I'd made.

There has been much abject despair when someone accidentally deleted a large number of audio clips, followed by elation when they learned that the audio they recorded was 100% intact even though they deleted the clips that referred to it. There's no "oh crap, I deleted the best take (or sample, or loop or whatever), it's still there, sitting in your Project/Audio folder. Might take some hunting to track it down, but it's there, and in one piece.

Now.

I finally figured out what you're trying to do, and there's no setting or option I can think of that will easily insert measures without affecting all clips (including ones that straddle the insert point).

But I found this out by accident: if I have only some clips selected, Insert Time/Measures will scoot them over and leave the unselected ones alone. If you can figure out a quick and easy way to only select the clips you want to shift over, that might be one way to do it.

Other than that, I like Bristol's idea about letting it split them, then slip editing (dragging out the right edge of the clip) to restore them to intact clips (remember, editing is non-destructive, so the clip will just fill in with the rest of the audio in the file).

Again, it probably requires a lot of selecting (with or without clip grouping, which is very helpful in situations where you need to edit a lot of clips at once), and then slip editing clips that you didn't want split in the first place. I get that you want prevention, not cure, but I just don't have one.

[John Vere]

@pulsewalk  Read carefully what I said about slip editing. Do understand what that is. @Starship Krupa has just explained it as well. 

[Xoo]

I think there is a way.

Select all and ensure no clips are position locked

Drag in the timeline to select all clips on all tracks to the left of the "insert point"

Position lock the selected clips

Enable ripple edit

Insert the extra measures where you want to

Disable ripple edit

Select all clips and ensure they are not position locked

[David Baay]

17 hours ago, pulsewalk said:

YES! It is exactly the correct scenario. It's a scenario where no other clips are crossing the play cursor where the time is intended to be inserted, but the tails of the effects, crashes, etc. that starts before the play cursor.

Thanks for clarifying as I was also a little mystified about the scenario that would make this necessary. This is a good example of a situation that comes up rarely enough that it might not make sense to have a dedicated editing mode to address it. But my guess is this is an orchestral piece and the situation is probably more common for orchestral composers.