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Video Card?

Sal Sorice

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Sal Sorice

Sal Sorice

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Note: This is cross-posted from https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/forum/42-computer-systems/

I'm currently using on board Intel Graphics and am thinking of going with a dedicated video card. Noise is a pet peeve of mine, so that likely limits my choices. Not a gamer at all - this PC is for music only. 

Was looking at the AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100 100-505826 8GB 256-bit GDDR5 Video Card
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N8XS96E/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3KHIT95AWLP4N&psc=1

Any opinions? Would this improve performance? Though I'm not really having any issues, it seems like graphics could be better in Cakewalk.
I'm likely going to add a 3rd monitor or TV, so some of the options I saw above won't work.

Any other (quiet!) cards anyone can recommend?

Music PC Specs:

Win10 Pro 64-bit
Intel i9 @3.60GHz, Comet Lake 14nm
ASRock Z490 Extreme4 Motherboard
128GB RAM
(2) 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe Drives
(1) 2TB Samsung 860 EVO SSD
(1) 4TB Crucial CT4000MX500SSD1 SSD
Focusrite Scarlett 8i6
Intel UHD Graphics 630
Samsung 55" Crystal 4k UHD AU 8000 HDR TV, UN55AU8000FXZA, 2021 Model, 3840x2160
Samsung 32" U32J59x Monitor, 3840x2160

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Promidi

Promidi

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It would depend on your plugins.  If they specifically mention that they can use the GPU for their GUIs, then yes, a dedicated video card can help.

Meldaproduction plugins com to mind.  I did a “GPU enabled/disabled” on Mpowersynth 14.05 and the motion graphics in the GUI were a lot smoother with GPU enabled.

Anything to take the load of your main CPU would benefit. 

Yes, fan noise can be an issue.  However, fans usually are more audible while you are gaming (which you won't be doing).  When you are using your DAW, they might not even be noticeable (or picked up with any mics)

Some graphic cards do not even run the fan while not gaming so these will be completely quiet.  I have an Nvidia GTX960 and I have modified the firmware to run that fan at 15% while idling or when using my DAW.  Even in the wee hours, I can hardly hear it.  Though modifying dedicated video card firmware is not for the faint hearted.

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Sal Sorice

Sal Sorice

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Thanks for the recommendations! Video Cards are so complex! Not sure if I'll try one or just stay with internal graphics. Will post back if I take the plunge.

Comments from anyone with real-world experience with a particular card welcomed!

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John Vere

John Vere

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I was lusting after a video card last winter because I now use video editing software and rendering in real time sucks. It’s like not having a good audio interface. 
Not sure if this changed but you couldn’t even buy a mid price card.  They were sold out everywhere and part of problem was the shortage of chips. There were warnings to wait it out. Prices had doubled etc. I might try again but now my whole computer probably needs replacement because it’s at least 12  years old. 

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Jim Roseberry

Jim Roseberry

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On 3/4/2023 at 9:18 AM, pwalpwal said:

@Jim Roseberry i think this is a question for you sir

I would not currently use AMD video cards.

In my ultra low latency (audio) testing, AMD's 6xxx series resulted in audio glitches sooner (vs running a RTX-3xxx or RTX-4xxx)

 

Some applications/plugins can benefit from a dedicated video card.

ie: Modular synths (where there are scores of widgets changing/moving)

Edited by Jim Roseberry
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Sal Sorice

Sal Sorice

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4 hours ago, John Vere said:

I was lusting after a video card last winter because I now use video editing software and rendering in real time sucks. It’s like not having a good audio interface. 
Not sure if this changed but you couldn’t even buy a mid price card.  They were sold out everywhere and part of problem was the shortage of chips. There were warnings to wait it out. Prices had doubled etc. I might try again but now my whole computer probably needs replacement because it’s at least 12  years old. 

Wow John! 12 year old PC still chugging along - you are definitely up for an upgrade :^)

1 minute ago, Jim Roseberry said:

Video card supply and prices have somewhat normalized.

RTX-4090 is pushing $2k

RTX-3050, 3060Ti, 3070Ti are more than enough for most... and cost a whole lot less.

Thanks Jim. I'm getting the feeling that the benefits of a video card for Cakewalk are likely not worth the $ cost or possible latency issues (at least for me). I'm doing very basic Cakewalk projects (a few Kontakt instruments, some EZ Drummer, EZ Bass, etc. stuff with some effects). Still in learning mode for the most part. 

The MSI Gaming GeForce RTX 3050 8GB GDRR6 128-Bit HDMI/DP PCIe 4 Torx Twin Fans Ampere OC Graphics Card (RTX 3050 Ventus 2X 8G OC) at Amazon looks like a possibility (link: RTX-3050 at Amazon), but the fans scare me (noise?!) and not sure it will be compatible with my system or introduce any latency issues, etc. - I'm not well versed in graphics cards at all.

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Starship Krupa

Starship Krupa

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I have a passively-cooled nVidia GT 1030 GDDR5 that I got for $80 on Mercari. It's (obviously) quiet and handles DAW and video NLE tasks with aplomb. With a passively-cooled GPU, you do have to pay attention to case airflow. My system has a good, quiet case fan (bought a 3-pack of them on Amazon). It's very sippy with power requirements, so you don't need to run an extra power cable to it.

I can even game the snot out of my indie games in full resolution.

I find that with DAW work, the UI will draw more quickly and scroll more smoothly with a better GPU. The minimum chip I would go with at this point is the GT 1030. The 700 series will work, but I don't know that you'd see much better performance than with the onboard Intel graphics.

A caveat: to my understanding, the GT 1030 can only drive 2 monitors by itself. But you can use it for the more graphics-intensive tasks and drive the 3rd monitor with the on-board Intel video.

Whatever you get, make sure that it has at least GDDR5. Memory speed is important for the kind of 2-D drawing we see in DAW's. nVidia released a version of the GT 1030 that, criminally, had GDDR4. Make sure you don't get one of those.

The RTX 3050 is surely more than enough GPU to do DAW stuff, and it has a fan, and my guess is that its fan will run so slowly as to be completely silent.

Edited by Starship Krupa
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Xoo

Xoo

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14 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

The 700 series will work, but I don't know that you'd see much better performance than with the onboard Intel graphics.

I had a GT730 before I upgraded to a 1030 (like you).  Track redraw in CbB was much slower.  Annoyingly, my GT1030 only has 2 physical output for monitors (not that I have room on my desk for a third but...I can dream).

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Lord Tim

Lord Tim

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Real world example: My audio laptop is running a GTX1050 and onboard Intel UHD630 adaptor. The 630 is powering the 1080p laptop panel @75Hz plus a duplicated output over HDMI at 1080p in my live room, and it's running a 5120x1440 main display @100Hz via display port using the 1050. Absolutely not breaking a sweat at all. I'd say this wouldn't be too much of a problem adding another monitor via the second display port running off of the 1050 card either.

A 30xx series card would eat this up for breakfast and then some.

 

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Starship Krupa

Starship Krupa

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6 hours ago, Xoo said:

Annoyingly, my GT1030 only has 2 physical output for monitors

Bleah, that was a typo. My GT 1030 also has only 2 DisplayPort connectors.

I'm not sure whether the chip itself is limited to only 2 monitors. Anyway, if you wanted to run a third monitor, does your CPU have a built-in Intel GPU you could use to drive it? Mine doesn't, which feels a little weird.

It's the first PC I've owned in 15-20 years that doesn't have built-in video. The CPU is an "enthusiast" model, where Intel, knew that everyone who bought one would be running it with an equally overpriced/swoopy video card. I read what this chip used to go for when it was new....?.

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Xoo

Xoo

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1 minute ago, Starship Krupa said:

I'm not sure whether the chip itself is limited to only 2 monitors. Anyway, if you wanted to run a third monitor, does your CPU have a built-in Intel GPU you could use to drive it? Mine doesn't, which feels a little weird.

I sincerely hope not as it's a Ryzen ?  But seriously, no it doesn't - I can't really work out how to fit another monitor on my desk without making it awkward for printer, speakers and coffee.  Especially coffee.  I WFH from it too, so need to be able to print/scan stuff from time to time too without having to either move a printer (in theory I could as it's wireless, but there's nowhere obvious to put it!) or be cramped.

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Sal Sorice

Sal Sorice

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Thanks all for the comments - sorry for my slow response - damn work keeps getting in the way...

I'm going to "take the plunge" and order an RTX 3050 - but there are sooo many varieties! I'm going with the MSI Gaming GeForce card as referenced in one of my above posts.

I'll post back when it is installed. Wish me luck!

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Sal Sorice

Sal Sorice

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On 3/6/2023 at 4:53 PM, Sal Sorice said:

Thanks all for the comments - sorry for my slow response - damn work keeps getting in the way...

I'm going to "take the plunge" and order an RTX 3050 - but there are sooo many varieties! I'm going with the MSI Gaming GeForce card as referenced in one of my above posts.

I'll post back when it is installed. Wish me luck!

Bleh. I installed the RTX3050 but am getting latency issue in LatencyMon that keeps pointing to the NVIDIA  Windows Kernel Mode Driver. Driver is latest one. Will probably remove and return it. I guess onboard graphics are good enough...

image.png.d1f9f902e60e623b3150faf9d974107a.png

Edited by Sal Sorice
typo
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Promidi

Promidi

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On 3/8/2023 at 10:15 AM, Sal Sorice said:

Bleh. I installed the RTX3050 but am getting latency issue in LatencyMon that keeps pointing to the NVIDIA  Windows Kernel Mode Driver. Driver is latest one. Will probably remove and return it. I guess onboard graphics are good enough...

 

Did you disable the Nvidia audio driver in Windows device manager.

It will be one of the “High Definition Audio Controller“ entries under “System Devices”

I have a Nvidia GTX960 and I do not have latency issues in LatencyMon.

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Sal Sorice

Sal Sorice

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41 minutes ago, Promidi said:

Did you disable the Nvidia audio driver in Windows device manager.

It will be one of the “High Definition Audio Controller“ entries under “System Devices”

I have a Nvidia GTX960 and I do not have latency issues in LatencyMon.

Thanks Promidi. I think I did disable it but not positive. I ended up returning the card. Will stick with onboard graphics for now.

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Starship Krupa

Starship Krupa

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That is odd. I have had several nVidia graphics cards, and no issues that I can recall with LatencyMon.

Wow, searching for "RTX 3050 audio latency" turned up this nugget where the problem turned out to be what I call "tech support question #1."

Makes me want to go around and check all my HDMI cables, maybe hit them with DeOxit....

On a serious note, there do seem to be multiple users on nVidia's support board seeing issues (and solutions) with 3000 and 4000 series cards:

The first one is practically a call to arms, and the person lists a whole bunch of Reddit discussions about this issue:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/geforce-graphics-cards/5/508819/high-dpc-latency-rtx30004000-series-cards/

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/geforce-graphics-cards/5/507156/high-dpc-latency-caused-by-nvidia-driver-file-nvld/

It looks like the fix is the first thing I thought of, setting it to favor Performance over Power Saving (or Adaptive) in the nVidia Control Panel. But really, that should be a "hot rodding" tweak, not a necessary setting to keep your system from wildly glitching audio. Dang, nVidia. Their cards are the most recommended for audio work, and it looks like maybe they did something to break that. I guess because I'm a trailing edger who's back in the 1000 series I'm not going to see this. See also @Promidi's GTX960.

Multiple people in those threads mention switching back to their Intel integrated GPU's for audio work, just like @Sal Sorice did.

@Jim Roseberry, system integrator extraordinaire, have you heard anything about this?

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