Sal Sorice Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) I'm a keyboard player, songwriter, crappy singer. Climbing the steep learning curve of Cakewalk, Toontrack (EZ Drums, Bass), Kontakt, etc. Sometimes I get stuck/frustrated and just want to WRITE! Am intrigued by Band in a Box, and am thinking it might help me flesh out song ideas that I could import into Cakewalk, ie, the WAV files as tracks, per this very informative video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnLgxF-LifE I'm an all-or-nothing type, so was thinking of taking the plunge on their "2023 OmniPAK Audiophile Edition by PG Music Inc. for Windows". Looks like it has everything, and I can get it for $782 (they offered me a 10% discount from $869. Opinions? Anybody using it as a writing aide? Are the tracks BiaB creates high quality enough to actually use in a final version of an amateur's song? Edited February 22, 2023 by Sal Sorice typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 I use it quite a bit - normally for filling in parts, or coming up with parts I wouldn't have thought up myself. In this sense it's like collaborating with a bunch of other musicians. There's nothing wrong with the music / realism quality of BiaB. The parts are expertly played, but for me the styles are a bit middle of the road. In saying that, taking a part out of context can give fantastic results. As far as audio sound quality is concerned, I'd definitely go for the audiophile edition if you can afford it. I've got the Ultrapack, which is essentially the same but using lossy compressed audio. The compressed audio quality isn't at all bad (in fact is very good), but to the trained ear you'll be able to tell the difference: if you can tell the difference between a good quality mp3 or song streamed on Spotify, vs a CD then go for the audiophile edition. I tend not to use the BiaB generated tracks in final songs in any case. I use them for ideas and re-record the parts myself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettelus Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 BIAB has its own learning curve, and you can always upgrade it. It may be more prudent to get a simpler version and see if you take to the software before jumping into the deep end with it. It has no trial/demo version since 2009 IIRC. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Sorice Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 Thanks for the comments! I agree with Mark (msmcleod) that BiaB would be great for inspiration, ideas, etc. mettelus - I'm an all-in and impatient type (ask my wife :^), so I'll likely just get the top-of-the-line Audiophile OmniPAK and take the 30 day trial time period to see if it works for me. More opinions welcome! Just an FYI - BiaB support told me the Audiophile OmniPAK comes on a (full) 2TB drive - but it is a Hard Drive - as in spinning platters? Yikes! I'd definitely transfer everything to one of the SSD or NVMe drives in my Music PC - something to consider for anyone else thinking of getting the Audiophile OmniPAK, or even some of their other offerings that ship on a disk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) I used BIAB quite a bit until about 2017. It started getting wonky on my DAW machine. I'm sure it was due to operator error (me). I'm current through 2020 (on hard drive). These troubles were not DAW specific as I did not use the VST plugin feature. I used it as standalone. Edited February 23, 2023 by Bapu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Sorice Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 Thanks Bapu! I appreciate the offer, but I'll probably just buy a new license as a new user if I go the BiaB route. Curious - was it wonky in Cakewalk, or in another DAW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) I use BiaB like Mark does. For inspiration. I have the Ultra Pak and like Mark stated, for what I do with it , it sounds great. I also just enjoy picking a style, and just throwing chords at it with no rhyme or reason and am constantly surprised at what it comes up with and good it sounds!! Yes you could probably use the tracks it generates in a final version of a song. Lots of musicians that play live use BiaB as back trks. Edited February 22, 2023 by Grem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Sorice Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 Thanks Grem! That approach was what I envisioned - give BiaB some chords, etc., audition a few styles, etc and see how it sparks my imagination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 @Notes_Norton Oh, Bob! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I never used BiaB, but back when I started using Cakewalk Guitar Studio, it featured that thing called The Song Wizard. Part of me thought I should be above using that sort of thing but I eventually did out of curiosity because I wanted to know how to use every part of the program. So I put in the chords for a song idea I was working on and auditionned a few styles - and I was quite shocked when I hit upon something I'd never had thought of but which worked perfectly and brought the song to life. I figured it was a bit like my idiot drummer, throwing arrangment ideas at me that never seemed to make sense - whether it was because he'd been listening to reggae or whatever - stuff that I would never have tried otherwise. But sometimes it'd just work and bring the song to a whole new level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I've been using BiaB since it came out on 5.25" floppies and worked on DOS 5. I also used it on Atari and Mac computers. Full disclosure: I write aftermarket styles for BiaB at https://www.nortonmusic.com and have sold them to musicians in over 100 different countries https://www.nortonmusic.com/world.html OK. Now on with my response... For songwriting, you could get by with the basic version of BiaB, unless you want to record the songs using the Band-in-a-Box app. In its most basic and core function, BiaB generates 'backing tracks' to chords entered into a matrix. Each cell in the matrix can be a bar of music, or a fraction of a bar if you like. Most often a bar of music. You get something similar to a keyboard with an auto-play rhythm section, only better. Where the keyboards play 4 to 8 measures again and again, while writing styles for BiaB I can add up to 400 different patterns from 1 to 8 beats long, and assign when they will appear according to musical rules (for example if a V7 chord is resolving to a I chord at the end of an A or B section, the bass line will lead from the V7 to the I. BiaB was originally MIDI based, and has now added "Real Tracks" or "Real Styles" which are pre-recorded loops of musicians playing instruments. There are pluses and minuses to both. The MIDI styles offer ultimate editing. I prefer the MIDI styles, a list of why appears here https://www.nortonmusic.com/midi_vs_loops.html admittedly it is biased towards MIDI. On the other hand, the "Real" tracks and styles sound great. But it's mostly what you get is what you get. IMO if you have a great MIDI synth array you can sound almost as good as the Real but have the ability to edit the styles. If you have the money, and want to get the Audiophile edition, you will get both the MIDI and the Real styles, so you end up with both. And if you really, really want to get the best (self-serving plug coming here) I have aftermarket styles https://www.nortonmusic.com/contents.html#biab and "Fake Book" collections https://www.nortonmusic.com/contents.html#fake If you want to write a new melody to an existing chord progression, like DIzzy GIllespie and Charlie Parker did in the 40s, or like so many of us rockers have done since, you might consider a fake e-disk (they don't have melodies), chante the style (easy to do in BiaB) and see if it inspires you to write a new song. If you or anyone else here has any questions about BiaB, I'll be happy to answer them if I can. And I'll do so whether or not you are interested in my products. Insights and incites by Notes ♫ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I knew I could count on you Bob! ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaartian Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) If you're not going to publish the track composed via BiaB (just using it flesh out ideas), then save your money and go with the UltraPak. Besides, the audiophile edition takes up WAY more drive space. I have BiaB installed on an external 2TB Thunderbird 3 drive, along with all of my other sample libraries (like for Kontakt). Take the money you save by buying the UltrPak, and buy a 2TB external SSD. I have 2 Samsung T7 2TB USB3.2 drives in addition to the Samsung X5 2TB TB3 drive. The T7s are excellent and very fast, if you have a USB3.2 port to plug them into. They're still plenty fast on a USB3 port. Edited February 23, 2023 by John Maar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Sorice Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 Thanks Notes_Norton! I'll likely get the Audiophile Edition so I have both MIDI and Real options. BiaB looks very powerful, but the interface seems complicated and cluttered, but, as an IT Professional I'm sure I can muddle through. Any tutorials, etc that you or anyone else can point me to would be much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaartian Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sal Sorice said: Thanks Notes_Norton! I'll likely get the Audiophile Edition so I have both MIDI and Real options. BiaB looks very powerful, but the interface seems complicated and cluttered, but, as an IT Professional I'm sure I can muddle through. Any tutorials, etc that you or anyone else can point me to would be much appreciated! The UltraPak also comes with the Real Tracks. Tons of them. The difference is MP3 vs WAV files. The Audiophile Edition provides both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Sorice Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 Thanks John Maar. Not concerned with drive space (have over 6TB of internal NVMe and SSD storage). They send the Audiophile edition on a hard drive (how quaint!), so I'll just copy it to an internal drive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Sorice Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 Just now, John Maar said: The UltraPak also comes with the Real Tracks. Tons of them. The difference is MP3 vs WAV files. The Audiophile Edition provides both. I'd rather have WAV than MP3 so Audiophile sounds like the better option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markno999 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Sal Sorice said: I'd rather have WAV than MP3 so Audiophile sounds like the better option. The UltraPak comes with compressed WMA files, not MP3's. The AudioPhile version comes with uncompressed WAV files. So AudioPhile is the same as ULTRA PAK except that all of the Real Tracks are uncompressed - in the full resolution. WMA is not as "lossy" as MP3. Regards 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 21 hours ago, Sal Sorice said: Thanks Bapu! I appreciate the offer, but I'll probably just buy a new license as a new user if I go the BiaB route. Curious - was it wonky in Cakewalk, or in another DAW? My troubles were not DAW specific as I did not use the VST plugin feature. I used it as standalone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Dickens Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 The plugin is not quite ready for prime time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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