DE-ESSING FULL MIX

[rayray]

I have a full mixdown and it has a hiss on it.  unfortunately, the source had the hiss and i just need to use the de-esser to limit the high hiss.  i have another recording with a low hum on it but, if that requires a different technique or not i don't know.  i'm hoping the de-esser has a frequency selection cutoff.

i'm new to cakewalk - i have used it before but after some frustrations with other DAWs, i decided to try CW after so many years.

i don't seem to be able to find de-esser in my plugins or compression tools.  oh how do i add new plugins?

can help?

RAYRAY

Edited February 19, 2023 by rayray
forgot a question

[John Vere]

For full mix down audio Cakewalk doesn’t come with a De essor. The good ones cost money.  But  a few free plug ins are out there  Try plug ins 4 free or KVR. Use the search feature. Also lots of wave editors like Audacity or Sound forge probably have one built in.  

To install new plug ins you follow the direction that come with the plug in and then get Cakewalk to scan the folder it was put in. Most you simply drag a dll to your VST plug in folder found under C/Program files. 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by John Vere

[Craig Anderton]

If there's a section with hiss that's isolated, there are tools that can take a "noiseprint" of the hiss, and subtract it from the file. The best ones (e.g., iZotope Rx) aren't cheap, but one of these free options might do the job for you.

[Lord Tim]

^^ Craig is on the money. A de-esser might help somewhat but you're likely going to remove a lot of stuff you'll want to preserve too. It's basically a dynamic EQ / multiband compressor set to a specific frequency, so EVERYTHING at that frequency will be cut. A de-noiser will let you zero in on both the hiss and the hum and get rid of it, sometimes surprisingly transparently too!

That all said, if you have access to the multitrack mix at all, absolutely start there first. Gating, cutting out or muting noisy parts, or applying de-noising to the tracks themselves will give you VASTLY better results than trying to do it over an entire mix.

But having said all of that, if you do want to try the de-esser route, CbB comes with the Sonitus Multiband Compressor. Set band 4 to where the hiss is and up the ratio and drop the threshold of that band (you can solo each band to zero in on where it is). That's basically a very over-built de-esser. But I'd definitely recommend Craig's suggestion first.

[michheld]

Just some thoughts: e.g. Iz0t0p€ has excellent tools to make a dynamic EQ based on mid-side-splittings. With a dyn-EQ you have much more control over the operation than with a simple de-esser. Maybe mid-side-splitting is a good companion the get a more isolated view on the signal. There are AI-based tools to split voices from instruments, too. But these are not inexpensive at all. I wish you all the best in finding a way to eliminate the noise!

[AB9]

I have found for removing hiss is that it helps to have a sample of this hiss itself that is the the same hiss that is in the song.  For instance, maybe the same hiss is just before the song starts or at the end.   (Ha - after writing this, I see that Craig basically said this above.) Then I have found some luck with sound forge or Magix noise reduction.   Though I have also found out that sometimes trying to remove all the hiss still affects too much of the other audio.  So, sometimes a lot can be removed, but not all of it.  But I have to say that my experience is fairly limited to sound forge and Magix noise reduction.

As to the hum, you may be lucky to be able to remove it with eq.

I also like the comment above about getting into the original tracks and mixing again.  (And as Craig pointed out below, if you can get access to the tracks.)    If it is a particular track or even couple of tracks, it is a lot easier to fix them than to work on the entire mix.  Though obviously this requires mixing again.   That is where I would start if at all possible.  Of course, this assume that the hiss or hum was not introduced by some equipment in the mixdown (if it was mixed out of the box, for instance), in which case mixing again and finding the culprit equipment used in mixing out of the box, would be important.

You also asked how to add new plugins.  Perhaps someone can direct you to part of the cakewalk manual for that.  You can do a search of this forum, or even a google search, and there are quite a few tutorials/posts on this.

Edited February 20, 2023 by AB9

[Craig Anderton]

I got the sense from the OP that only a full mix was available, but that might have been an incorrect assumption. The best option by far is to go back to the original multitracks and nuke the noise at the source.

You can often remove hum with super-steep notch filters. Start with 60 Hz, then add filters for odd harmonics if needed (180 Hz, 300 Hz, etc.). I wrote a blog post for how to do this in Studio One, but the same principle applies to any DAW. Cakewalk certainly has the filtering horsepower that's needed.

[scook]

45 minutes ago, Craig Anderton said:

You can often remove hum with super-steep notch filters. Start with 60 Hz, then add filters for odd harmonics if needed (180 Hz, 300 Hz, etc.). I wrote a blog post for how to do this in Studio One, but the same principle applies to any DAW. Cakewalk certainly has the filtering horsepower that's needed.

I am sure you recall, the Sonitus EQ has presets for 50 and 60 cycle hum removal. Nice for illustration purposes.

14 hours ago, Craig Anderton said:

If there's a section with hiss that's isolated, there are tools that can take a "noiseprint" of the hiss, and subtract it from the file. The best ones (e.g., iZotope Rx) aren't cheap

iZotope RX is a good way to go. iZotope frequently puts their products on sale and the entry level RX Elements offers a good suite of tools to clean up audio. In fact, RX Elements is on sale now at the iZotope site and resellers like Plugin Boutique https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/3-Studio-Tools/51-Audio-Restora

edit: even Sweetwater has gotten into the price wars. They have RX10 Elements for <$25 https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RXElements--izotope-rx-elements-audio-repair-plug-in-suite

Edited February 19, 2023 by scook

[rayray]

On 2/18/2023 at 10:14 PM, John Vere said:

For full mix down audio Cakewalk doesn’t come with a De essor. The good ones cost money.  But  a few free plug ins are out there  Try plug ins 4 free or KVR. Use the search feature. Also lots of wave editors like Audacity or Sound forge probably have one built in.  

To install new plug ins you follow the direction that come with the plug in and then get Cakewalk to scan the folder it was put in. Most you simply drag a dll to your VST plug in folder found under C/Program files. 

 

 

hey thanks.  what's with de-essers?  i found a lot of DAWs don't have them or the ones out there cost a lot of cash just to process ,  these things were included in wavelab back in the day but it is not a free program anymore.

CUbase has none unless yu pay for the premium packages which right now i can't afford.

So far i'm liking Cakewalk.

update - Reaper comes with a De-esser!  Also, a ton of plug-ins.\

Edited February 22, 2023 by rayray
sp

[scook]

A multiband EQ can work as a de-esser. Sonitus Mutliband is bundled with CbB.

[Craig Anderton]

On 2/19/2023 at 11:44 AM, scook said:

I am sure you recall, the Sonitus EQ has presets for 50 and 60 cycle hum removal. Nice for illustration purposes.

Yes, but I'm not sure the choice of frequencies is optimum. I've had better luck choosing odd harmonics, because sometimes the 60 Hz harmonics go up to 540 Hz. Doing additional notches at the even harmonics takes out more of the audio without providing (at least to my ears) the same benefits as doing odd harmonics only. (FWIW the hum reduction preset in Pro Tools uses odd harmonics only.)

As to the Multiband, that's always been my secret weapon in Cakewalk! It allows for much narrower bands than many (most?) other multiband dynamics processors, which makes it super-useful for de-essing - just solo a band, and adjust the frequency range to cover the "s" sounds you want to reduce. Multiband also has a knee parameter, which most de-essers don't. That can be useful for giving a more natural de-essing effect.

But speaking of Multiband...allow me to be an advocate for a minute. I wrote a tutorial on how to use the Multiband as a frequency splitter, frequency isolator, and if you set the compression ratio to 1.0, a five-band graphic equalizer with variable bands. It also makes a good crossover for multiband processing. And - it does upward expansion, which again is something you don't find in most multiband compressors. One good application is emphasizing drum or guitar strum transients in the upper band while compressing lower bands. It's a really useful plugin. 

(FWIW I'm not sure iZotope Elements has spectral de-noise, only voice de-noise as an adaptive process. To get noiseprint-type noise reduction, I think you have to move up to iZotope Standard. Maybe someone who has Elements can confirm.)

[scook]

11 minutes ago, Craig Anderton said:

(FWIW I'm not sure iZotope Elements has spectral de-noise, only voice de-noise as an adaptive process. To get noiseprint-type noise reduction, I think you have to move up to iZotope Standard. Maybe someone who has Elements can confirm.)

I picked up Elements on a blowout sale a few years ago and run RX9 Standard today.

Both the spectral and voice de-noise functions work with noise prints or adaptively.

I like to use the adaptive settings for spectral de-noise and noise prints for voice de-noise.

[mettelus]

If this is a one-off situation, another option is to post the file on Dropbox or similar and share that link to for folks here who have RX or Audition to do the noise reduction for you. You can share such via Private Message if preferred as well.

[Craig Anderton]

9 hours ago, scook said:

I picked up Elements on a blowout sale a few years ago and run RX9 Standard today.

Both the spectral and voice de-noise functions work with noise prints or adaptively.

I like to use the adaptive settings for spectral de-noise and noise prints for voice de-noise.

Does Elements include spectral de-noise, only only Standard?

[scook]

Rx10 feature matrix

Spectral de-noise js NOT included w Elements

[Craig Anderton]

Thanks for the link! I didn't scroll down far enough.

[sjoens]

"CbB comes with the Sonitus"

I use Tinnitus. May take a few years for it to fully settle in, but once you have it those freqs are never an issue. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by sjoens

[mark skinner]

Craig Andertons link above (one of these free options) includes Reafir. It's included in a small bundle of free Reaper plugins. I've used this several times for noise removal. It has worked well for me , especially if I can isolate a short section of the hiss etc.. If it's real short , you can loop it to build a suitable noise profile. There are some decent YouTube videos for using it in subtract mode.       ms

[rayray]

On 2/18/2023 at 10:14 PM, John Vere said:

For full mix down audio Cakewalk doesn’t come with a De essor. The good ones cost money.  But  a few free plug ins are out there  Try plug ins 4 free or KVR. Use the search feature. Also lots of wave editors like Audacity or Sound forge probably have one built in.  

To install new plug ins you follow the direction that come with the plug in and then get Cakewalk to scan the folder it was put in. Most you simply drag a dll to your VST plug in folder found under C/Program files. 

I found a boatload of plug-ins in Reaper including De-esser.  i guess the way of life if you cannot afford to pay for a full DAW is to jump from one to another to get done what you need to.

Cakewalk and Reaper are my faves.  I use Cubase 12 Elements since i got a license with my new notebook purchase from ASUS.  i use it to cut/paste and experiment with the plug-ins (sparse) on it.  but some are good.

haven't played enough with cakewalk to know how to select and paste from two different tracks or songs.  a lot of the time i have an ending on one song and want to paste it (append in this case) to another song.  sometimes i want to extend a section of a song for a couple more measures and i can do it in Cubase but not CW yet

 

On 2/18/2023 at 10:14 PM, John Vere said:

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by rayray
sp

[bitflipper]

A de-esser is not the right tool for this. What you need is a noise remover, which is something you're more likely to find in an audio editor rather than a DAW. 

For a noise remover to work properly, you need a piece of audio that contains only the hiss. It needn't be a long sample. A little fragment that is audible within a stretch of silence is all you need to find. The de-noiser will take a spectral snapshot of that noise and then suppress those frequencies where they exceed a threshold. Actually, it's a lot like what a de-esser does, except that it's far more targeted and thus more transparent.

The process of noise removal is destructive and not real-time. You specify the noise sample and then run the removal process. If you have a good sample of the noise you want removed, these applications do an amazing job. The noise just goes away like magic, without affecting anything else. And best of all, with no fiddling.

As noted prior, good audio editors cost $$. The most popular atm is Rx, which will run you $400 for the cheapest edition that offers noise reduction. However, it is currently on sale for half off, so 200 bucks. Should also note that you can try it out for free (for a month, iirc), so if this is a one-off situation you could just use the trial.

Another one I've used that's pretty good and is popular around here is Sony's SoundForge, but I don't know what its current status is or its price. Back in the day I paid $100 for it, but that was quite awhile ago (I stopped using any Sony products after the infamous rootkit fiasco).  I wouldn't be surprised if they'd since replaced it with something newer and undoubtedly more expensive.

My current go-to noise remover is a very old version of Adobe Audition (AA3). It works great, but I don't recommend it because you can no longer purchase the editor, only rent it via subscription. 

And now the good news. Audacity is a free DAW that does include a noise reduction feature. It's not as good as Rx or Audition but given the price of $zero it's worth a shot.